The Sword and Laser discussion

This book seems fairly contemporary at times and very dated the next sentence. One instance in which the books true age comes out is in it's description of race. Which got me to thinking. Is peeper meant to be derogatory or is it meant in the same way the book uses terms like mongoloid and mandarin. Words that might be found offensive today but were acceptable in the time the book was written.

I'm interested to see if anyone else came to the same sort of conclusion as well.

I thought Peeper as a slang for Espers - that hints at the probability of using it as a derogatory term by those who disliked them, but could also be used to signify nonchalance.

I got the impression that it was meant colloquially, like now we use "shrink" for a psychiatrist, rather than derogatory.

Sean wrote: "I got the impression that it was meant colloquially, like now we use "shrink" for a psychiatrist, rather than derogatory."

Yeah, the Espers used it among themselves as well, perhaps ironically. Maybe it was originally pejorative, but later became accepted the way members of profession joke among themselves.

Sean wrote: "I got the impression that it was meant colloquially, like now we use "shrink" for a psychiatrist, rather than derogatory."

That's how I understood it too. It's certainly used by those who refer to Espers in a derogatory manner but it's not exclusive to them at all.

It's actually kind of interesting to contrast with contemporary culture where the drive for "political correctness" has practically made colloquial synonymous with derogatory.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad that we pay more attention to how we use language. I just think it is interesting to view "peeper" as an example of how that wasn't always the case.

I'm not sure how innocent it is. After all, characters also use the term "mongoloid".

Mike wrote: "I'm not sure how innocent it is. After all, characters also use the term "mongoloid"."

Interesting, I didn't pick up that "mongoloid" was used in a derogatory sense. The word itself literally means "resembling a mongol"... as in Mongolians. It didn't become derogatory until it was used as slang for "hideous" or "deformed" by people who thought that denegrating an entire race of people was a good idea.

I thought the fellow actually got what we would call Asian features and didn't think there was anything negative implied in the text. But maybe my interpretation is overly sympathetic.

edit for clarification: I'm not sure if the word mongoloid had picked up its negative connotation by the 50s. Obviously, if it had then I'd have to rethink my interpretation.

Peeper was derogatory if it was used in a derogatory context. Reich was frequently being derogatory to espers because that was his nature.

Fyi, "Mongoloid idiot" was the term Langdon Down used to describe the condition we now call Down syndrome (Down's Syndrome in the UK), or more recently Trisomy 21. As is the way of things 'mongoloid' or 'mong' has been relegated to the pejorative scrapheap of words along with 'retarded' and 'idiot's both of which were used differently.

Steve wrote: "Fyi, "Mongoloid idiot" was the term Langdon Down used to..."

Wow, thanks for that. Not to hijack the thread but I did some quick checking on wikipedia. Looks like Langdon Down's whole system of classification was pretty ethnically based. Scary. I had no idea that Down's Syndrome was actually called "Mongolism" at one point. You'd think an educated group like doctors would have a little more sensitivity, even if it was the late 19th century.

Still, I'd say Bester's usage is ambiguous. It's clearly been used in a derogatory sense for some time and is basically exclusively derogatory now but was it then? I don't know. Damned racists have to stop stealing words. It gives me epistemological headaches.

But I agree with you that Reich used "Peeper" mostly in a derogatory sense though I'm not sure about the rest of the characters. Powell specifically. Seemed like he used it as a derogative sometimes and not others.

Matthew wrote: "Steve wrote: "Fyi, "Mongoloid idiot" was the term Langdon Down used to..."

Wow, thanks for that. Not to hijack the thread but I did some quick checking on wikipedia. Looks like Langdon Down's whol..."

When I was a child, my family knew another family who had a child with Downs Syndrome and the term Mongol was used for him with no intent to be demeaning or derogatory. (I agree it IS both things and hooray that we've moved on.) I'm not THAT old either; I'm 44.

Peeper is more like the way society uses the word "nerd" now. A common title that was previously derogatory but has changed to mean a bunch of things, and even a positive turn in the community it was once used to deride.