The Robin Hobb Collection discussion

ch11 - and here is another moment where those who skipped the magnificent liveship traders trilogy must be completely lost. i on the other hand had my face in my palm when reading about selden and kettricken's conversation.
of course kettricken is outraged, and of course selden is confused. neither one knows what happened in the other part of the world.

more intriguing however is the narcheska and piottre being against an alliance with the dragon breeders. why would mother's clan hate the dragon breeders?

Hanne wrote: "ch11 - and here is another moment where those who skipped the magnificent liveship traders trilogy must be completely lost. i on the other hand had my face in my palm when reading about selden and ..."

It was pretty cool seeing characters from Liveships again. And then the Fool telling Fitz plainly about Tintaglia would have been so left field if we hadn't already known all that from Liveships.

Hanne wrote: "more intriguing however is the narcheska and piottre being against an alliance with the dragon breeders. why would mother's clan hate the dragon breeders? "

On the surface of things I might guess it's because the Six Duchies dragons were responsible for ending the Out Islander aggression during the Red Ships war. If Six Duchies now has access to more dragons they may see it as disrupting the existing balance of power against the Islanders. But maybe they have some other knowledge about Tintaglia?

Ch12 - Oh dear. Jek's arrival has upset the apple cart. The fool is revealed as having an entirely different life and gender as Amber. I can't blame Fitz for being confused. It's good to see Jek again though.

And Tintaglia appealing to Fitz through Seldon was interesting. She must have been the voice speaking to him last book when he nearly lost Dutiful in a skilling session and I bet she was the voice he heard in their first lesson this book

And what about Elliana's serpent tattoos? It looks like it is one of the serpents who is in remote control of the servant and has some link to Elliania through her tattoos.

C13 - A new quest! I'm not sure that Tintaglia would be pleased by humans killing another dragon if it exists.

If you read carefully, there are at least two, and maybe three 'voices' that Fitz hears in various skill-related moments. One of them is indeed (or at least it seems strongly implied to be) Tintaglia. The other, or the other two, by implications are not Tintaglia. You can tell the difference both by tone/content (Tintaglia is arrogant, superior, but not that bright, whereas one of the voices Fitz hears seems kind and wise).

Can't remember where they appear off-hand, though...

EDIT: OK, just had a quick look, and I can find two voices that don't seem to be Tintaglia.
At the end of Fool's Errand, when they're on the island. Fitz and Dutiful are put back together by some sort of voice that speaks in italics. On the one hand, 'she' talks about how 'they' used to enjoy humans, because they were 'ardent little pets', which sounds pretty Dragony. On the other hand, she sounds a lot more human and pleasant than Tintaglia does - more, Fitz is suffused by a profound sense of love from her, which doesn't sound like Tintie. And she talks about how many of "the others" wouldn't even have notice that Fitz and Dutiful were there. So there's more than one of these beings, and they continue to be 'conscious' on some level even though the days of having humans as pets are over. And there's only one dragon (so far, so far as we know).

What is She? could be a dragon - maybe a dragon trapped somehow, or maybe 'they' are the memories of dragons somehow preserved, and tintaglia is just an unusually obnoxious or misanthropic specimen. Maybe they're the Others, or whatever Others used to be, although when She talks about 'the others' there's no capital letters (which, of course, Fitz would be able to hear, I'm sure...). Maybe she's a White Prophet? Calling the humans 'pets' would seem odd then. An elderling? Again, elderlings were the pets, not the pet-keepers. Another species altogether? My guess is that She is going to turn out to be, more or less, a god.

And then again in chapter 7 of this book, a voice helps fitz stop dutiful losing himself. On the one hand, the similarities are clear: voice in italics, helping humans maintain integrity in the skill-river. On the other hand, Fitz doesn't recognise the voice, isn't awe-inspired like before, and doesn't feel any infusion of love, and the voice doesn't indicate familiarity. Maybe it's another of the same species? Or the same one, but at a greater 'distance' somehow?

On re-reading, it's strange that Fitz pays so little attention to these voices - but then so do we. Hobb does a good job of managing to move us on from stopping to consider what would seem to be a massive revelation about her world.

David Sven wrote: "Ch12 - Oh dear. Jek's arrival has upset the apple cart. The fool is revealed as having an entirely different life and gender as Amber. I can't blame Fitz for being confused. It's good to see Jek ag..."

Ooo poor fool. I could feel his agony all the way when jek started saying all those things. So now the whole court (incl Starling) are gossiping about the two of them. That reminds me: ugh starling. good riddance on that account!

the serpents on Elliana's back are very interesting. Trust Robin Hobb to add a few more intriguing twists halfway through the story. The Lady is somehow commanding them, and they aren't all the same because Piottre asked her "which one" was burning. Weird weird. I have a bizillion options in my head what's going on but all of them are too weird to be true, so we'll just wait for more things to come up.

Could be the dragon talking to Fitz indeed. We know Tantaglia is capable of some sarcasting comments on current events :)

Wastrel wrote: "On re-reading, it's strange that Fitz pays so little attention to these voices - but then so do we. Hobb does a good job of managing to move us on from stopping to consider what would seem to be a massive revelation about her world. ."

So do we indeed. At least, so did I. I had competely forgotten about those anonymous voices except for the one this book after Dutiful almost looses himself.

Would the dragon be skilling? Perhaps it's something close. Fitz mentions he hears a buzzing sound when Selden is communicating with the dragon. Not Wit, not Skill, but yet something else.
The dragons are hugely linked to the Elderlings though, and we know the Skill played a huge part in their lives, so maybe they use some 'higher form of Skilling'? And try to maintain th ebalance indeed?

Honest, I've got no clue, but I'm sure we'll figure it out along the way :)

@Wastrel - Thinking back on it you are right. The voices do present different tones. And how Fitz forgets them is like how you forget a dream -and Hobb does a good job of bringing that across.

ch13 - more dragons!
they question is whether this is a real sort of dragon, another skill-dragon, or yet a third possible kind. if she's real, she could be another missing voice. or even the lady?
whatever she is narcheska seems to be wanting to get rid of it.

i do have to say that this is the first time that robin hobb also let's me down in how to get a story turn moving. i didn't feel that this whole challenge thing on the eve of leaving was very believable.
but i'll go with it. once in 8 books is still a pretty good statistic

Ch-14 - So the Piebalds had a rat in the walls. Good job ferret.

And now the queen is putting pressure on him to train Nettle. I really want to see Fitz train Nettle too even though he's resisting it.

The other thing is - what's going on with those feathers he took from the others Island. He seems to have forgotten about them or did I miss him giving them to the Fool? Last I remember he hid them among some scrolls in Chade's tower

CH15 - The Fool comes out - things get awkward and unpleasant. Maybe now would be a good time for Fitz to remember those feathers.

It looks like someone in the keep other than Fitz knows that Golden is the Fool

And Nettle gets kept out of things for a bit longer. I didn't realize that she is officially recorded as being a potential heir to the throne. This chapter also brought home to me how vulnerable the throne is with Dutiful the only publicly recognized heir. It makes him a tempting target for assassination.

david, the feathers are indeed still somewhere in chade's tower.

the nettle thing happened at the end of book 3 in the farseer. i think kettricken didn't know she was pregnant yet and there was a very naste debate between kettricken and fitz about that. if i recall well they were even going to have nettle pose as kettricken's daughter. but that's all a bit shady to be honest.

Hanne wrote: "but that's all a bit shady to be honest. "

Sounds very "Chadey"