Reading the Chunksters discussion

War is coming to Atlanta. I can't actually imagine how scary that must be for all the residents, let alone Scarlett and Melanie. It does make me hmmmm at myself when the discussion notes that the guns fall silent at night. Warfare surely has changed.

I also am just floored (for lack of a better term) about the discussions of Melanie's pregnancy. She's not allowed to ride in the wagon, talk to men about it, must hide it, etc., etc., Again, my how times have changed.

I have found myself looking to wikipedia for information about the battles of the Civil War. It's been so long since I took US History and even then, I don't think a lot of detail about specific battles and campaigns was provided. It's a nice side benefit to reading this book - an update to my history knowledge.

The reason that the guns fell silent at night was not out of kindness to local residents, but merely that ordinance was expensive and they had no decent way to aim at night, meaning that it would have been a waste of military resources. This isn't covered in the book, but did you know that the Civil War was the first time there was aerial surveillance of a battle filed. They took cameras and spyglasses up in hot air balloons.

Its no wonder throughout history that there were so many miscarriages. They simply didn't give their bodies what they needed. They constricted them with terrible clothing, they forced them into long periods of little physical activity. Its terrible. During this time there was a movement among doctors to actually try and stop women from wearing corsets, because Doctors knew how bad it was for the body, but they didn't listen.

I find this an interesting stylistic change between modern and classic novels. I feel that in a modern novel the emotion, fear, and despair of the soldiers and the people would be examined much more closely. You'd really get a microscope into their feelings. Scarlett is afraid, but I don't really feel afraid with her. I feel like such deep emotions were never fully dealt with in classic novels because it would have been unseemly and too personal. Thoughts?

Becky - really interesting point about the feelings. I hadn't really thought of it, but you're right. It's like you're told what the characters are feeling, you're not let in to it. I don't feel it with them. They talk about how afraid they are of the Yankess and the coming fighting, but you're right, it's not as if my palms are sweating and my heart beating quickly with them.

I wonder if we would trust Scarlett's feelings, though. Her character has been so mercurial and hysterical (I hate to use the term, but I think it fits especially well here). Would it somehow lesson the emotion to have it coming from her?

I also have a question for you all. Do we think Ashley does love Scarlett -- in the way she wants? I mean, obviously, he's too much the gentleman to actually act on it, but that part where he leaves after his visit... I was so annoyed by the thought that he did.

Do you mean, do I think Ashley really loves Scarlett? That he would rather be married to her?

That's complicated. I think that he loves having such a trophy, such an alive impassioned creature, head over heels for him. I think it makes him feel alive. I think he loves her in that way, that its a passionate love, forbidden and so more desirable, something that, even though its a secret, gives him strength because O! What a man he MUST be! I think its the firestorm and the possession that he loves, because how could you not be totally entranced if she set all of her powers on her.

But he knows that he couldn't wake up each morning and love her. Not the kind of love that it takes to run a home, a family, and keep a marriage from deteriorating into a hellish relation. He completely understands that he could never be with Scarlett like that. I think her fire would consume him, and then his whole household, and he knows that which is why is resigned himself to marrying Melanie. He can love her, and love her for forever.

Its like the difference between a first love and the person you marry. They're both love, but its different.

Wow - really interesting question - and answers. Now, this is coming from me being a little later in the book, but I also not sure that Ashley loves Scarlett. But, I see it more as a sign of his gentlemanliness. I think he knows what Scarlett feels and he's too 'nice' or he's too big of a pansy, to set her straight. I feel like he loves Melanie because she is more moderated, and perhaps more intellectual than Scarlett it and that he knows that's what he would be able to handle for a lifetime.

I feel like Ashley is set up as illustrative of the 'old' South. And, maybe Rhett is the 'new' man of the South. That part I haven't sussed out yet, but I do feel like Mitchell tries to make a point that things changed after the war and Scarlett is just an example of that change.

I'm sure Ashley does love Scarlett, but not the same way she loves him. Also, I don't believe she truly hates Rhett. In fact, I think she's in denial about her feelings for him, being so jealous of Melanie and obsessed with Ashley.

I watched Part 1 of the movie the other night at work. I work in a Alzeheimer's unit during the night. Anyway, in the movie, Ashley did kiss her back, passionately, when he left, after receiving his gift. He also shoved her aside in shame. I found that interesting.

Becky, I liked your summary, I think that's a very apt description of the whole thing. I think Ashley probably has more fantasy feelings for Scarlett, the same way she does for him, but the two of them would ultimately hate each other if they were actually a couple. It's not based on anything real, just passion and feelings.

I have to say, I disliked Scarlett more in this section more than I have the entire book so far. She's so whiney and pining and acts like it's a personal affront to her that Melanie dare sleep with her own husband! And Ashley isn't much better, although he doesn't give into deeper passions: but he had no excuse for kissing her!

All that aside, I'm actually finding the descriptions of the movements of the battle very fascinating, since I lived in that region of Georgia for nearly a year. Atlanta, Macon, Kennesaw, Cartersville, Rome.... all places familiar to me and that I've spent time in. Very surreal to think about a battle actually progressing through all of that.

Becky wrote: "Do you mean, do I think Ashley really loves Scarlett? That he would rather be married to her?

That's complicated. I think that he loves having such a trophy, such an alive impassioned creature, he..."

Is that kind of in a The Way We Were way? Makes sense though.

I also think she is in denial about her feelings about Rhett. I thought it was interesting in the way he told her he was waiting for her to grow up before he touched her. I'm totally with him on that.

That aerial coverage bit is fascinating I had no idea. As far as the feelings go though I get the sense that the war is sort of a background to the love story so that is why she has not developed it more than general political affiliations and culture differences.

As far as I know emotions about battle were still relatively new in their own right North America with The Red Badge of Courage.

I saw this quote in Belinda which I am also reading at this time that totally for me describes Scarlet and her whole Ashley thing.

"'First loves,' continued Mr Percival, 'are not necessarily more foolish than others; but the chances are certainly against them. From poetry or romance, young people usually form their earlier ideas of love, before they have actually felt the passion; and the image which they have in their own minds of the beau ideal is cast upon the first objects they afterward behold. This, if I may be allowed the expression, is Cupid's Fata Morgana. Deluded mortals are in ecstasy whilst the illusion lasts, and in despair when it vanishes.'"