Victoria BC science fiction book club discussion

Discussion thread for chapter 1 + prologue

Anyone at this point yet? What did you think? I really enjoyed the first chapter. I really like that we don't know what is true for each persons story. The priests was a good starting one, it got me hooked.

Hi Mike

I'm not done the first chapter yet, but I'm quite enjoying it so far. The world building has been excellent, giving glimpses into the universe the story takes place in, but not really going into any detail. I'm excited to see what's next

I'm done the first chapter now. It was great! The cruciform thing was delightfully horrifying, especially in the context of the last few pages of the chapter. I'm excited to hear the next story

I agree the first chapter was great. The first chapter really set the idea of how the book is going to be written. I like the idea of each character discussing their own experiences and the reader needs to think while reading about whether they believe what is being told. The concept of this 'organism' that essentially makes it so you will live forever through replication/cloning(?) was intriguing/unnerving.

Because of the initial religion tone of the chapter, Father Dure and Hoyt, I felt like the author was trying to discuss some sort of religious idea (not certain what exactly). Below are some similarities I noticed from my limited religious knowledge and the first chapter.

-The three score and ten (and Dure) are stuck in a certain vicinity. They are not to leave it (otherwise pain). Dure also is told not to go down the cliff, to where the people pray. This seemed similar to the Garden of Eden to me.
-Dure eventually goes down to the altar against the three score and ten's "rules(?)". Due to this he becomes one of the cruciform, where he meets the Shrike (God?).
-Three score and ten is 70. Could this be related to the 7 apostles? One of which may or may not have been female.
-Dure then wants to leave and in doing so is tortured by the cruciform initially by trying to leave and then by dying (and coming back) repeatedly in the forest, tesla trees. Paying for sins?
-Maybe Hoyt is meant to represent the second coming?

I'm not certain if there was more to this. Maybe I've missed some other points or the Simmons was trying to say more about this (much deeper meaning?). Maybe he was just trying to show the Shrike is God?

Food for though. Apologies if I messed up names or some more specific details.

That's a really interesting analysis, thanks for sharing it.

I didn't catch the religious connections when I read it, but what you're saying makes a lot of sense, with the exception of the third point. There were 12 apostles. The number 7 does have some significance in Christianity though. Could the androgyny of the three score and ten be related to the sex taboos of the Catholic Church?

I wasn't sure how finding a cross on an alien planet would save the church. It's a simple enough structure that any culture could come up with it. The reason it's so important to Christianity is because that was the execution device of choice for the Roman Empire.

I think this chapter did the hook and reveal really well: you see a society that's very strange, and things slowly get explained, but seem more confusing until the final piece is revealed.

There were several concepts touched on in this chapter that I hope are explained in more details: the fate of Earth, the treeships, the time debt (which I assume is how long it takes to travel from system to system)

I apologize for that one. It was getting late and didn't double check! U found this though about the number 70. The Old Testament allots three score and ten (70 years) for a man's life (Psalm 90:10). I'll respond to the rest of your comment later. After the day is done!

I was just thinking of this: Hoyt says that the Bikura were destroyed after he found them, but we know that the cruciform can regenerate them from almost nothing, given enough mass. It seems likely to me that they survived, given that Dure's cruciform kept him alive while nailed to the Tesla tree for 8 years. Do you think they'll make another appearance?

Considering the end of the chapter. The priest has 2(?) cruciforms on him. I believe they will have some sort of significance later down the road. It would seem like a lot of missed story potential if it was ignored after chapter 1. I don't know to what extent it could be used though.

Hi everyone, I just got my copy of the book so I'm playing catch up here.

Fascinating chapter, really got me hooked on the novel. I was skeptical about hearing the story of a priest first but it turned out to be excellent.

I wonder why the Shrike (who or whatever it is) chose the cross as a symbolic shape. Especially considering the Bikura (or their human predecessors who initially crash landed) were not religious. I think this fact combined with the discussion of the Christian church is leading into some greater origin story, for either religion or possibly even the human species as a whole. Not to mention the labyrinthine worlds - related to the Shrike perhaps?

The "living" tree-ships remind me of the concept of the Dyson tree which would live and grow on a comet, allowing human inhabitants to coexist as well. I appreciate the scientific attention to detail such as the discussions of "standard time" and time-debts (which has not been fully explained; I gather this has to do with the relativistic effects of time dilation). The tesla trees, flame forests, cleft - all brilliant concepts. There is something strange and special about Hyperion, which I'm sure will slowly be revealed in more detail.

Once it was revealed how the Bikura survive they seemed almost like machines, automatons. What is their purpose? They seem to sit around all day doing nothing. What would happen if they did not pray one day? More importantly, what is the Shrike getting out of them in return? Perhaps they are all extensions of the Shrike consciousness/lifeform.

I'm really enjoying the Universe Simmons has created. It seems to have a lot of depth thus far.

Hi Everyone! Sorry I didn't comment earlier.
Some thoughts so far: the structure of the book seems to be consciously based upon Chaucer's "Canterbury Tales;" as in that volume, the plot centers around a bunch of people on a pilgrimage, telling stories to pass the time.

I got the impression that the Three Score and Ten were the surviving colonists, and that they became progressively less Human with each new rebirth (they mention that Alpha, upon his rebirth, seemed "even stupider" than he was before). Perhaps this is some intended commentary about the fanaticism of converts?

Mike wrote: "Considering the end of the chapter. The priest has 2(?) cruciforms on him. I believe they will have some sort of significance later down the road. It would seem like a lot of missed story potential..."

I think that the second cruciform in his back is meant to be that of Father Dure; presumably he will be regenerated entirely when Father Hoyt has sufficent mass.

I haven't read Canterbury tales myself, so I can't say much on that. Vanessa noticed the similarity though. I'll let her talk more about that when she finishes this chapter.

The Bikura's loss of humanity is one of the creepier parts of the story. They seem to lose everything but their general shape. No personality or features left, except for transcription errors created during regeneration.

Forgot to come on and comment when I finished this chapter (I'm currently nearing the end of Ch.3...yes, far behind everyone else.)

Yes, I noticed the deliberate Canterbury Tales format. The book seems to have several references to 'classic' Earth artistic creations. For example, the Consul playing Rachmaninov (I think?) on piano, or imagining Wagner's Valkyries during the storm. And some poetry references (the city of Keats being one). I've liked these little references, especially as a person who isn't that much of a hard sci-fi reader. Gives me something other than SCIENCE to think about.

I was not a big fan of the journal entry format of the Priest's Tale. But that's just me. Also when I began reading, I found the writing style too adjective heavy and dense with jargon, but as the story progressed and Simmons began to experiment and play with different literary styles, I've come to appreciate that more.