Chicks On Lit discussion

Q1 - A1 style

Q1 How do the different women characters in this novel find ways to make things easier for themselves? What about Rahima’s mother? Bobo Shagul? Abdul Khaliq’s wives? The women of the king’s harem?

As I make my way through this second section, I'm most struck by how the women treat each other. Rather than uniting in the face of their oppression or offering solace to one another, many have become perpetrators of this oppression and fight for what little status they can muster, it must be so incredibly isolating to have even women turn against you in this type of society.

Along those lines Taylor Although I understand why Shahla is upset with Rahima. My heart just aches for Rahima especially when she asked about what marriage would be like and she gets ignored.

Irene wrote: "Q1 How do the different women characters in this novel find ways to make things easier for themselves? What about Rahima’s mother? Bobo Shagul? Abdul Khaliq’s wives? The women of the king’s harem?"

It is interesting to see the variety of ways that the women in this book all cope with the oppression put upon them. Rahima's mother ends up taking opium, her sister kills herself by lighting herself on fire, some of the older women become abusive to the younger women, possibly in a way of expressing their feelings of the aggression that has been place on them their whole lives. The harem women 'seem' to have a better life, but even they compete with each other, and the harem guards, while acting as men, still seem leery and afraid, as they still are not really in control of their destiny. All the women in the end are controlled by the men.

I thought about how each one copes with the situation they are in and they turn to negative activities, like abusing others and themselves.
I started to observe myself when confronted with difficult situations and I discovered I turn to eating. So now I purposely go on Twitter, read a book, or go for a walk with my dog. Of course, I can't compare my issues to what the characters are experiencing. Mine are silly in comparison.

Q2
How do you think Rahima has changed through out the novel?

I think competition at the bottom of the heap is much more intense than at the top. There are more players and fewer resources. In nearly every situation in this book, there are more women than men. The opportunities for them to gain some power and/or autonomy are few. So, they have to compete with one another to scramble for the opportunities. Maybe, if all cooperated, they could achieve more for themselves, but no one can trust that one would not shoot out of the pack and grab the advantage. And, if one did, that one would be automatically threatened by the rest, so would have to defend that position with every means. It is only those assured in their position that can relax and be magnanomous.

I don't think it is any easier for the majority of the men. Ramina's father and male relatives appeared powerless before the warlords who came to propose marriage. And, they in turn seem powerless before these foreign forces that are telling them how to live their lives and run their country. This is not a meritocracy, but an ancient hierarchy with pretty rigid positions, constantly in danger of somehow being upset and crushing all those on the lower rungs of this ladder.

A1: I agree with Sheila's comments. Rahima's mother doesn't cope: she chooses to disappear in a cloud of opium just as her husband does. Khala Shaima copes with her own issues by trying to be a strong voice and support for her neices and sister, and to provide an example of women overcoming obstacles in here Bibi Shekiba stories (though... I don't know that "overcoming" is the right verb there!). Rahima tries to be a good wife after her initial resistance to Khaliq, and tries to seek solace in her son. Shekiba works harder than anyone else and tries to lose herself in her work. There's so much competition between women, and there are only the rarest instances of comeraderie between wives, comrades, and family members. I, too, think about my own coping strategies (and yes, food is my nemesis, too!) and find the most successful way for me to deal with my problems is when I can talk them through with my community of female friends. (Yes, my husband, too, but he tends to be a "solver" :)). I don't know how I would cope if I didn't have access to that, or if I was betrayed everytime I tried to communicate my feelings. How awful.

It's all about survival. Do you think if the women are educated and skilled that would take them out if that situation? Does something else have to change as well?

Totally about survival. As a teacher, I am loathe to say it, but I think it needs more than education. Education helps empower, but these women also need escape--literal escape. They need to be surrounded by people who wont stone them to death on a whim. (anyone seen the move "The Stoning of Soraya M"? gosh I hope I got that title right! ) Without physical safety, nothing else can change. Sometimes it takes inspiration and bravery to claim your right to safety, but until that happens, larger change just won't happen.

I agree. Literacy, higher math skills, a trade, none of these things would make much of a difference to Parwin or Ramina or even Ramina's mother. Who would hire them without their husband's permission (or the permission of their mother-in-law). If Ramina can not even go next door to visit Parwin, why do we think she could leave the compound to earn an income?

I am very surprised to read of the way Afghan culture ridicules anyone with a physical disability. I never knew that about the Afghans.

Even the so-called senior women, such as the first wife of Abdul Khaliq, really have no power. She is made to run for an office (which the husband really doesn't want but has to do as it has to be a woman in the office) and then he beats her up severely. You know she won't be making any decisions of her own in this 'elected' position.

Yes, her power is derivative. The only real power seems to come from a gun or the strongest fist. This is a glorified dynamic of the school yard bully without the moderating influences of adult supervision.

I agree with all your comments, if society and the laws aren't set to protect the women from this type of treatment, no matter how educated they are, they will never be free.

I see a lot of publicity to donate money for schools for girls but something has to be in place first.
If we wanted to help the girls and women from these countries, what steps should we take?

Economic development is most often connected with the emancipation of women. As a country industrializes, becomes economically and politically secure and stable, they are usually more open to modern ideas. Education is an important part of that process. Women's education is important so that the abilities of women can be developed, they can be positioned to accept jobs outside the home as they open such as teaching girls, medicine, starting cottage industries so they can have an income if their husbands are unable. Education also allows women to become familiar with alternative social structures. We have seen that women are often the greatest source of resistance to women's equality efforts. Education helps to expose women to possibilities and to encourage them to fight for their own freedom. So, I think female education is very important. It is an equality issue. But, we also could assist women by helping to develop the entire country. War almost always hurts women's security. So, working for a just and lasting peace in the region would help. Poverty hurts women disproportionately. Men who feel threatened, devalued, unable to function often turn to more traditional, often oppressive social structures. Helping the region to rebuild economically would improve the lot of everyone, including women. Of course, there is no magic bullet. Saudi Arabia is a very wealthy country and relatively stable, but laws confining women are some of the strongest in the area.

Wow, Irene you hit on the nose. As I am reading, I'm thinking what good was it for the girls to go to school if they have to stay voiceless and invisible through out their lives.

I also think along those lines what good is school if one cannot to school. Besides the obstacles in this book. I know our church works on a hygiene project that provides materials to assemble homemade feminine hygiene supplies. Some women get there monthly and cannot attend work or school due to the lack of supplies. Sometimes there are physical factors as well.

Rebecca, is it for Afghanistan?

Yes they send to Afghanistan.