/r/Fantasy Discussion Group discussion

Discussion 2: Full on spoilers for the entire book are welcome. Time to discuss the it all.

I found the novel to be rather slower then I was expecting from Joe Abercrombie, having heard so much about his grittiness.
Logen was the most interesting of the main characters. His passive nature was a nice change to the 'go-getter' attitude of most fantasy characters, while the brutality he is capable of unleashing was devastating.
I found Glokta to be rather lack-luster. I was never greatly invested in his storyline.
Luthar was intolerable. I found myself constantly hoping some one would kill him. His better-than-you attitude really bothers me. I understand that it's meant to, so it succeeds, but was still quite annoying to slog through. His storyline involving the tournament seemed to drag far longer than it should of.
The under used Northmen and criminally under used Collem West were my favorite characters. When I finished one of their chapters I would flip forward to see how long until another one.

Through a slow start, and a middle part that just dragged on, the ending to the novel is terrific, and leaves me really wanting to progress in the story.

I also really enjoyed Glokta, though I do agree it was a slower novel than I expected. It read a little like it was written as a huge prologue to the series rather than a normal opening novel, if that makes any sense?

That said I enjoyed the style when I had gotten used to it, rather than it being about epic things happening every page I felt like I really got to know the characters.

Alex wrote: "Zack, interesting you say that about Glotka. He's pretty much the only reason I kept reading.

One of the most memorable characters I've read in any book for a long long time."

I can't agree more. Though i think his POV plays itself out more in the future.

I really enjoyed this book, probably one of my favorites out of the books I've read over this past year. Logen was by far my favorite POV, though I did like Glokta more as the book moved on.

I'm on the third book in the series right now, and I know there are three more standalone novels in the same world. Has anyone else read them, and if you have then would you suggest them?

I'm 3/4s through and so far I think that story is great, so far, I should be done with it tomorrow. The characters are well done and all have very different personalities. I'm hoping audible has a sale on the rest of his books in the near future.

I liked reading through Glokta's POV and I found Jezal's to be funny especially his interactions with Glokta and Ardee West. However I found Major West to be boring. The eventual appearance of the Bloody Nine also explained a lot because Logen didn't seem to live up to his reputation before.

I really enjoyed the book as a whole. I think Abercrombie succeeded in giving each character unique perspectives and mannerisms - I liked the navigator's voice in particular. I laughed out loud when the navigator explained how combat was not one of his numerous gifts (hah).

It was also successful creating a large world with a lot of different factions. Most of the players are still somewhat unexplained, which can be frustrating, but for the most part I see it as a positive that I want to know more about the world.

The action was well-written, and despite the prowess of most of the main characters they still were vulnerable to create good tension.

I had a hard time connecting with anything in Major West's story - he felt a bit flat and generic - until pretty late in the book when he snaps and assaults Ardee (which felt a bit out of nowhere, but served to add some much-needed dimension to his backstory IMO). Ardee is a little hard to connect with as well, but she had witty dialog in skewering Jezal, which I much appreciated. Jezal… is a tool. I mean I find him pretty unlikable, but in a fairly realistic way. His POV works for me, even though you sorta want to root against him… he feels set up to learn some tough life lessons at least. Glotka I found really interesting - I alternated between disliking him and liking him. His combination of ruthlessness and weakness, honesty and skepticism… it's really hard to pin down where his personal story is going to lead. Very fun to have a powerful wildcard like him in the mix.

I didn't really connect with the Ardee romance thing. Other than her isolation, it's difficult for me to understand why she'd go for a guy like Jezal. I can give that a bit of a pass, though, since I feel that way about most fantasy romance storylines.

I really liked Ferro - I'm really interested to see where her path takes her. She had some of the more-interesting encounters in the book, IMO - with the soul eaters, with her and Logen's dash through the city.

I'm skipping over Logen (and his buddies), losing some steam writing this ;) Bottom-line, though, I truly feel like each of the characters had enough meat or 3-dimensionality to them that a whole book could be dedicated to them (except maybe the Wests).

This entry definitely felt like it was setting the stage, and I was left wanting a lot more, so thumbs up :)

So, I reached the end of the beginning of what may be a decent story...for that is all these 500+ pages were. What I felt at the 60% read point summarizes the book for me: I am frustrated by having characters that I think are fabulous hanging by tenuous threads to a plot that is next to non-existent.

What is the story arc of this book? What is the meta-story of this world that the later two books complete?(I really feel that I should be able to answer these questions after reading a 500+ page book.)

At the end, I have a collection of interesting characters (that I do not know enough about) going to retrieve the seed (which I know even less about) to save the Union (from something that I'm not too clear on). Except for Glokta, the one character that I really like and care about, who is going south to try and single-handedly prevent the Union from facing a two-front war...and Major West, who does get to go to war in the North.

This is exactly the sort of fantasy book that disappoints me so much lately: a book of fantastic characters living a well-rendered world in desperate need of a good editor. This story feels like a lazy editor decided to split a 1800 page novel into 3 parts rather than actually editing the story into a 1200 page book of tight, clear prose and purpose.

I may like it better after I read parts 2 and 3 but right now I feel short-changed.

I can agree that book one felt the most incomplete in the series. That said....the rest of the series fills in those gaps so, so well.

Well I finished the book yesterday and I'm surprised with how much I enjoyed it. I tried to read this book once before and I couldn't get past the 60 page mark.

However when it was chosen for this month's book I figured it was the perfect time to give it another chance. I'm glad I did.

As has been said numerous times the strength of this novel was the characters. Whether I loved or hated them at least they were the type to get into your head and make you feel something. No one was purely uninteresting (except maybe Luthar :p).

The only criticism is the plot. If I had purchased this book when it first came out and had to wait years for the conclusion I would probably be extremely frustrated. I book should be able to stand on its own and this book doesn't. It feels more like an elaborate introduction/prologue than it does a full novel.

But since the trilogy is finished and I have the rest of it beside me I'm not too upset. Hopefully the next books have a firmer plot direction.

Anyway the book definitely had its issues but since I'm continuing with the series it has to have more going for it than against it. Thanks guys for finally giving me the push to read this :)

Lucinda wrote: "So, I reached the end of the beginning of what may be a decent story...for that is all these 500+ pages were. What I felt at the 60% read point summarizes the book for me: I am frustrated by having..."

I totally agree with this. It didn't feel like there was much plot and I feel, upon finishing the book, that I have reached no accomplishment. I think that books should be able to stand on their own and this didn't. I don't think I'll be reading the rest of the series to "find out what happens" because I don't know what is supposed to happen. And I am not invested enough into the characters to see what happens to them.

Just noticed that Sam said the same thing above re books should be able to stand on their own. The book really feels like the first 25% of a book...

Finally powered through it. Everything has been said already, but I will say that I am glad the Bloody Nine made an appearance. Also, I came around on Ferro by the end.

Er.