Modern Good Reads discussion

What elements tip a sci-fi into a sci-fi/fantasy story? Is it horror, supernatural, the breaking of accepted scientific principles or facts, the use of fantasy elements like wizards or magic in an otherwise sci-fi setting.

Name some recent examples of books that you think fit the science fantasy genre and what put them there.

I think you basically have it. Supernatural tips it to fantasy. Horror only tips it if the horror is magical/fantastic in nature. The movie Aliens is definitely sci-fi (more accurately sci-fi/horror). Breaking scientific principles makes it fantasy if there is no plausible explanation why those principles were broken (or alternatively if the reader is too ignorant to know they have been broken, Aliens breaks tons of scientific principles). If you write a story about a scientist that studies the concept of teleportation and assembles components, then finally powers up his device and teleports his dog to a distant planet, that's science fiction.

If a woman taps her shoes together and sends her dog to a distant planet because she wishes really hard that he go. . . fantasy.

It should be noted that the science behind the teleportation device need not be scientifically accurate to still qualify as sci-fi, it just makes it more believable. Of course, pushing the limits of fake science starts to push the limits of sci-fi. If you don't know that much about the science of the sci-fi, but you still want to stay away from the fantasy aspect, it's best not to go into to much detail regarding that technology.

On a related note, if the science behind the sci-fi story is all proven and accurate, that is what is called hard science fiction. If you look up the definition on the net, you will find that hard science fiction has many definitions, some quite a bit more forgiving of fake science than others, so there is a bit of wiggle room.

I can't think of any recent examples. I'm sorry. I don't know if what I wrote is helpful, but I hope it is.

Oh, one final note. The trend these days seems to be in sci-fi mixed with fantasy. Hard sci-fi (with some exceptions) seems to reside in the realm of classic sci-fi. Not many writers out there are doing it. So if you want to write sci-fi but are somewhat scientifically challenged, do what all good writers do. Write a great story and don't worry about the rest. The better the story is, the more forgiving the reader.

Good luck!

Russell wrote: "I think you basically have it. Supernatural tips it to fantasy. Horror only tips it if the horror is magical/fantastic in nature. The movie Aliens is definitely sci-fi (more accurately sci-fi/ho..."

I understood that definition, Russell, and I've read a few. Thank you. :) That clarifies for me where my own work sits.

Russell wrote: "Hard sci-fi (with some exceptions) seems to reside in the realm of classic sci-fi. Not many writers out there are doing it.

Hard sci-fi can be quite limiting if you want your characters to move around the universe. (One of the reasons I bend the rules.) I find hard sci-fi sticks around Earth. One book that fascinated me and stirred me up too was It's a really good read.

I'm not really into fantasy, I find it points back to myths and the past. I like my sci-fi to be forward facing, although like all things literature we're really only writing about our own times & lives.

Stanislau Lem is a great sci-fi writer of ideas. He wrote the original novel "Solaris" which has twice been made into a film.

Ceri wrote: "Russell wrote: "Hard sci-fi (with some exceptions) seems to reside in the realm of classic sci-fi. Not many writers out there are doing it.

Hard sci-fi can be quite limiting if you want your char..."

I prefer hard sci-fi, but also find it can be limiting, so I too bend the rules. As I mentioned above, I do so in a scientific way, not a magical way.

Cheers!

Marc wrote: "I'm not really into fantasy, I find it points back to myths and the past. I like my sci-fi to be forward facing, although like all things literature we're really only writing about our own times & ..."

I have never read any novel by Lem. Seen the film a long time ago. I've added Solaris to my Want to read list. Thank you.

Ceri wrote: "Marc wrote: "I'm not really into fantasy, I find it points back to myths and the past. I like my sci-fi to be forward facing, although like all things literature we're really only writing about our..."

Pleasure :-)

Hope you like it!

I like writers who mix f&sf. Check out "A Plague of Angels" by Sheri Tepper.

I think the presence of a fictional type of creature would put the story in science fiction/fantasy. Naomi Novik's Temeraire series could be historical, but the presence of dragons definitely puts it in fantasy.

F.J. wrote: "I think the presence of a fictional type of creature would put the story in science fiction/fantasy. Naomi Novik's Temeraire series could be historical, but the presence of dragons de..."

What if the dragon was a result of genetic engineering? Would that put it firmly back into science fiction?

Science fiction worlds run on some type of science. Fantasy worlds run of some type of magic and/or involve magical/mythical creatures. "Some people do go both ways." Speculative fiction which can be Urban Fantasy, Steampunk, Paranormal romance,etc.

Ceri wrote: "F.J. wrote: "I think the presence of a fictional type of creature would put the story in science fiction/fantasy. Naomi Novik's Temeraire series could be historical, but the presence ..."

As in Anne McCaffrey's Dragonriders of Pern series, or if the dragons happen to be an alien race on another planet (like in my series)... Yeah, that would give the story a more science fiction slant.

But in stories such as the Temeraire series or the How to Train Your Dragon series, where the dragons are presented as a natural part of the Earth's eco-system... I would classify that as Fantasy.

Though, I do admit that those lines tend to blur, which is why Science Fiction and Fantasy are almost always shelved together. In fact, I love it when authors disregard the lines altogether.

F.J. wrote: "ugh, I do admit that those lines tend to blur, which is why Science Fiction and Fantasy are almost always shelved together. In fact, I love it when authors disregard the lines altogether ..."

I love it when a story leaves you just a little unsure as to what's real and what isn't.

Ellen wrote: "Science fiction worlds run on some type of science. Fantasy worlds run of some type of magic and/or involve magical/mythical creatures. "Some people do go both ways." Speculative fiction which can ..."

that's a perfect definition. The weird thing is academic science would never allow room for myth or magic and yet in literature the two genres can sit comfortably side by side

Ceri wrote: "F.J. wrote: "I think the presence of a fictional type of creature would put the story in science fiction/fantasy. Naomi Novik's Temeraire series could be historical, but the presence ..."

Anne McCaffrey's Pern. The dragons are genitically engineered and it is still considered sci-fi. I've heard it called "Soft" Science Fiction and Science Fantasy also as opposed to "Hard Science Fiction" like say Isaac Asimov.

In response to Ceri's comment: I'm an old fashioned adherent to Asimov's definition. If it's "natural," it's sci-fi. If it's "supernatural," then it's fantasy. I like both, but I prefer the scientifically possible.

Actually, it can have elements of both. My newest novel Phoenix Part One: Spooks, is an example of this. I will not get into the scientifically possible, as I feel there is more fantasy than science, but I also think this is true of most Sci-Fi, whether it involves aliens, time travel, or galactic communities, all of which is fantasy in the present day.
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Science fiction, especially for the die-hard's, must have science at its core. And fantasy at times can appear to be sci-fi when it really isn't. My novel "Pilgrimage" may appear, on the surface, as science fiction because it's about alien abduction. Many people, when I have described the story as such, think it is science fiction. But it really isn't. There's practically no science at all (although the two main characters are physicists). I self-published it for Amazon Kindle and I did put it in the sci-fi category because I assumed readers interested in alien abduction would look there first. I like to refer to it as paranormal fantasy, or even better, speculative fiction. I think a lot of books tread the line between science fiction and fantasy.

The boundaries between sci-fi, especially space opera and military sci-fi, and fantasy are like fog on the Hudson--if in NJ, you know there's a lot on the other side, and vice versa. Hard sci-fi is an extrapolation of current science and technology. The farther the extrapolation (past or future), the more it becomes like fantasy sometimes. To paraphrase Clarke, futuristic science and technology might seem like magic. My advice for readers: suspend your disbelief a bit and just enjoy a well-told story, even though it might be really far-out (time travel stories are often like that, James Hogan excepted). For writers: do your homework, because your extrapolations can't really contradict current knowledge without becoming fantasy.
r/Steve Moore