Chaos Reading discussion

Hey all. As should be obvious by now, I am currently experiencing some.... frustrations with GoodReads.

For more background on what has actually been happening, there has already been some discussion in this CR thread: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
For a really coherent view of what has been going on, the blog Hidden Reviews has a great timeline of GR Censorship events as Ceridwen has been archiving here: http://hiddenreviews.tumblr.com/archive
There is also a book coming out, however GoodReads has seen fit to repeatedly delete its book entry on this site. Go figure.

Anyway, when all this started I tried to keep the Chaos Reading Group out of it. I really did. We're all independent, free-thinking adults, and I figured it was up to you lot to make up your own minds. I posted in the thread above and left it at that. I also curtailed my own rebellious actions, figuring that while I may wish to get my account deleted making a point, it was not for me to make that decision on behalf of this group.

Then I got censored. My book review (which did not discuss author antics of any sort, and was not abusive or pornographic - more's the pity) was deleted for being "off topic". I spent a day quietly seething, and then... I went a bit nuclear. Every tasteless, evil, money-grubbing, shadowy, amoral thing that you imagine Amazon does has been played out in front of me over the last week. I've now seen them do it - either to me, or to someone I know. So I've been protesting hard, but I haven't forgotten the group.

I set this group up for three reasons :
1) I wanted diversity. I wanted to be part of a group that read widely. I didn't want the conversation limited to a single genre or a singular way of thinking. I wanted a truly inclusive, international, multicultural group. I wanted to hear about books I would never otherwise come across.
2) I wanted depth. I wanted discussions that were more than, "I loved the book OMG don't you love the book? OMG rofl I loved the book too!" I wanted to stretch myself.
3) I didn't want to be sold to anymore, or to pander to authors/publishers/marketers. The gods know there are plenty of those groups already. I wanted to talk freely without the author weighing in.

I believe we've got those things here. I'm genuinely proud of this group and its members. I love hearing that somebody has discovered a new passion, exploded their TBR or learned something they never would have otherwise, because they hung out here. I know it happens to me here a lot. But make no mistake: Amazon are threatening each of these things.

Now, I'm not planning on shutting the group down. We've accomplished a lot here, and I will not let Amazon fuck that up. At the same time, there is a real possibility that my account may be deleted by GR.

Many people I know have received "final notices" threatening account deletion. While I have not received such a warning, I don't think Amazon are too fussed about following administrative fairness principles right now. I've been locked out multiple times, and told that it's a "glitch", however this "glitch" seems to have affected a lot of other "troublemakers" and I have concerns that they may be targeting specific users for monitoring. Of course, they won't tell us anything.

SO...... we need to talk.

I have back-up arrangements in place on GoodReads (you might have noticed there's a new assistant moderator in town, even if she has been a little quiet!) There are a couple of other things I'll be putting in place to safeguard the functioning of the group. Like handing the keys over as needed. So we can (as far as I'm aware) stay on here indefinitely.

I have also set up a TEST group on BookLikes, just to check out the functionality as they roll it out. This is NOT a new group, and we have NOT moved. It's just a test and it's not being used. Feel free to go over and have a look, maybe leave a test message to see what you think: http://booklikes.com/groups/show/54/c...

BookLikes are a new outfit, and still getting set up, but they've been making improvements very quickly, they're very responsive and above all respectful to their users. They still have a ways to go to match GR's infrastructure, but it's not bad.

We don't need to make any decisions just yet, and maybe this will all die down and we'll all forget it ever happened. Maybe Amazon will back down and give us all free ponies for our trouble. Who knows?

I thought it would be a good idea to find out what everyone else thinks though, just in case. So...... thoughts?

I just checked it out...you have to sign up in order to navigate (I guess) because I wasn't able to access anything other than a 'still' of the test group page, and a quick slide show of the BL site. Oh, how I hate signing up on websites just to consult them! But maybe i'm doing something wrong...

Andrea wrote: "I just checked it out...you have to sign up in order to navigate (I guess) because I wasn't able to access anything other than a 'still' of the test group page, and a quick slide show of the BL sit..."

Thanks, Andrea. That's good to know. There's not much to see on there yet - just a test thread noting things I noticed as I posted. If it's any consolation, signing up isn't too big a drama. I did it a while back and have only just brought my books over & started setting up my profile etc this week (when I got booted from GR for about 24 hours with no explanation). Not that I'm bitter. It's a little more basic than GR, but I've been impressed with how quickly they're adding features, responding to people etc. I think the Groups function only went live this week.

I posted a brief bit about my feelings in the 'Amazon and GR' thread. So far, it seems the one thing they haven't effed up around here are the discussion groups. If they start banning the interesting people, they will indirectly eff them up anyway.

I don't have a lot of faith in Amazon reversing their policies of turning GR into the aforementioned "OMG don't you love the book?" kind of place, but as long as the groups are still autonomous I'll keep coming back. This group is amazing, and without the Ruby (or the Ruby Doppelgänger) it will fall apart, despite having a lot of interesting, engaged members. I'm also happy to follow this group to another site if that ends up being the only way to keep going. I'll start an account on BookLikes in case of abrupt disappearances.

I'm on Booklikes (auspex.booklikes.com) and will go wherever Chaos Reading goes.

This is such a great group, introducing me to works I never would have found on my own so Ruby, where ever CHAOS ends up, count me in. I have joined Book Likes. Is there any way to migrate my shelf data?

You bet: go to GR's "My Books" page. Down near the bottom left is "import/export", click on that then "Export Your Books" is near the top right, with a link to "export to a csv file".

Click on that, save the file on your computer, then go to http://booklikes.com/settings/shelf and "Import books from Goodreads" is at the top of the page, choose the file you just downloaded from GR and click on Import.

Yeah, I'm still finding annoying little "quirks" over at BL, but for every "quirk", there does seem to be an upside. BL seems to support better customisation and linking to other sites, which could be fun to play around with.

I'm still cleaning up my book data a bit, but for 3,200+ books I think it did quite well.

Thanks for your support, everyone. One way or another, we'll survive the Amazocalypse. :)

Another site that is attempting to fill the void for disenchanted GR users is Leafmarks (started by two GR users, and definitely FOR READERS rather than publishers/authors). I'm going to give it a test run as a user. I'm not moving the group there or anything, just checking it out. Feel free to come over and play with me: https://www.leafmarks.com/lm/#/users/...

It still has a LONG ways to go. It's only about a month old, and still building up data. Will be interesting to see how quickly it can catch up though.

Haven't heard much on the GR controversy lately. Anything new from the front lines?

It seems to me that, while GR has no intention of ever doing anything like apologizing, they've realized that they overreacted and have drawn way back (perhaps to the policy they had before September 21). I haven't heard any more complaints of shelves or reviews being removed.

Derek (Guilty of thoughtcrime) wrote: "It seems to me that, while GR has no intention of ever doing anything like apologizing, they've realized that they overreacted and have drawn way back (perhaps to the policy they had before Septemb..."

I got kind of disillusioned when a certain reviewer used the controversy to release a vanity book, using volunteer labour of certain protestors (such as myself). I kind of stopped getting involved at that point. GR reinstated my censored review and apologized for deleting it, and I haven't heard of any more deletions. They never did respond to the mammoth discussion thread, which is still active.

I haven't posted any reviews since the whole kerfluffle. Most annoying were the people saying that GR is a privately owned site they can do what they want and the rest of us should all shut-up. It seemed to me that by their actions and then their silence, that was the attitude held by GR as well, even if they were at least circumspect enough not to say it. I can't bring myself to provide any more free content for them without feeling like a total tool.

I'm still posting reviews, but that will be tapering off. My wife asked me to start a mystery blog, so the mystery reviews are going there. I don't like to pull my reviews though, because they're why I have GR friends, and I don't think that's fair to them.

Ruby, did the "certain reviewer" not get your permission? It was hardly a "vanity" book, it was just a way to get a book on the site that GR couldn't prevent us discussing without exposing its hypocrisy, and it wasn't his publication, so much as a committee—but everybody was supposed to have been asked if they wanted to be included.

I will also migrate as required- this is the only group to which I consistently contribute, so where you go I go too :-)

Derek (Guilty of thoughtcrime) wrote: "..it was just a way to get a book on the site that GR couldn't prevent us discussing without exposing its hypocrisy, and it wasn't his publication, so much as a committee—but everybody was supposed to have been asked if they wanted to be included. ..."

That was the original intention, Derek, and why many of us chose to help out & put it together. That experience left a very bad taste in my mouth though (and I'm not the only one). The bits that were included were almost entirely the work of one person (with a few of their close associates' thrown in), and everybody else's work was ignored. They way it went down all felt a bit manipulative to me. I got the hell out of there when I realised what was going on, but there were a couple of people I'm aware of who spent weeks pulling together their own and other people's material, only to have nothing of their own included. It was an absolute clusterf*ck of a "process" with no respect for the time & effort people were giving to contribute.

*my two cents*

Leo [Hydra Kids, Hydra Wife] X. wrote: "I will also migrate as required- this is the only group to which I consistently contribute, so where you go I go too :-)"

Thanks, Leo. :)

Well....that sucks. I have been on Booklikes...haven't liked it....its too bad one cannot be honest in a review. John Scalzi just posted something in his blog about why one star reviews are important.Why they are important in general. I mean....they are like books, you like them or not.

I just made an account on BookLikes, just to try it out (and add myself to the group, should anything go wrong). It's a bit clunky to navigate, in my opinion, but comes across as a book-related Tumblr, minus the craziness (which is a plus!).

I'm sure I'll get used to the site layout if I ever have to. For now, I've got the basics down.

I've just been poking around, haven't tried reviewing anything yet. However, I'm adding my books from GR now. This, uh...might take a while.

EDIT: Scratch that, it's taking a lot less time than I originally thought!

I too have added myself to the group....hope it was the right group. Just not sure if I like the format.But hopefully GR gets its stuff together.

I haven't logged into BL for a while. In the meantime, LeafMarks started up, but that's not fully developed yet either.

Things seem to have settled down somewhat here on GR, at least for the time being (either that or they've just gotten sneakier about their censorship).

I'll reiterate: There are no plans to move the group in the near future, but thanks everyone for your support.

Also, there's a Group on here called, "Everything Booklikes & Leafmarks" which is good for staying updated on the alternatives to GR if you're interested. I had to turn off my notifications as I was getting inundated, but it's handy to check in occasionally.

i'm lazy. i hated having to move from whatever site i was on before this one when it shut down and the idea of moving again, at my age with my sore knee and headache, well sheesh. i just don't know if i could

stay put or i'll have to just talk to meself about books



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