The Sword and Laser discussion

I have done it both ways, however the jury is still out on which works better for me.

I know that even if I go for full on discovery, a part of my mind still outlines things out. Things do remain more flexible and open as a result. Do I end up with a better story? That's the part I am not sure about yet.

I think everyone is a bit of both, really, leaning toward one end or the other.

In this instance I have my opening scene and my ending scene and a vague idea of what might happen in the middle. So I'm definitely in the discovery group for the majority of this one.

I've tried outlining, but I got so sidetracked by little details that I always just got sick of the whole idea before I wrote anything. This time I have a very very basic idea and I'm just gonna try to go with the flow.

I'm outlining in my mind. I know the direction I am going to take. How I get from point A to point B I am writing to discover? But the basic plot and what I want to get across our outlined in my mind.

If that makes sense.

Trike is right. It's sort of a spectrum deal; you CAN be one or the other, but most people live somewhere in the fuzzy middle area to one degree or another.

I like to think of it as gardening. So I have an idea of where I want to plant corn, potatoes, squash, sunflowers, pole beans, tomatoes, cucumbers, and so on... Now while I have it in mind to plant, sometimes the beans grow wild and cover up the squash, or the sunflowers grow super tall and impact the tomatoes. The point is that writing isn't all one or the other, you try and have an idea of where or what you are doing, but allow yourself enough room to see what happens.

I for one, love a good outline. I can fly by the seat of my pants, but I prefer having a clear idea of where I'm headed before I take off.

I'm more of a discovery writer. Unfortunately getting to the goal is harder since the path isn't clearly defined and I always seem to get lost on alternate paths. Last year I got over 50,000 words, but the novel was probably half finished. Thought about having the second part if that story be my novel this year but this current idea is bugging me too much, so I'm going with it to see if I can get it completely out of my mind. With a basic outline in my head, I'm hoping to actually finish a novel this time, so I guess we'll see.

I fall on the discovery side of things, although I do plan ahead for things that usually trip me up. For example, I made a list of all of the character names and their ages, so I don't end up stalling out for five minutes whenever I meet someone new and have to figure out what to call them. Granted, I've already discovered a character who I didn't plan for at all...

I have a novel I've been building up for a year, which I recently chose to rewrite completely, but it's on hold for NaNo. It's very much an outlined story, having planned a LOT of things.

My NaNo novel is more of a discovery story, though I know the ending. But I think when I write, even with a lot of pointers, I still "discover" a lot about the story. It feels like quite the journey anyway!

This is the perfect realization of my process for this thing.

Yes, instead of writing anything, I made this. I am very much in the running for King of the Procrastinator's Carnival.

http://oi43.tinypic.com/2i9toh2.jpg

I've never been able to write an outline. Everytime I sit down to try and write one it seems like all the ideas I have for the story just drain out of my head as I stare at the blank page, unable to come up with a single thing to put down. Is there a way to begin an outline that I'm missing, because I can see how helpful they could be to keeping on track with your plot.

Mike wrote: "I've never been able to write an outline. Everytime I sit down to try and write one it seems like all the ideas I have for the story just drain out of my head as I stare at the blank page, unable ..."

I ask the question, "Then what?"

I woke up this morning.
Then what?
I brushed my teeth.
Then what?
I heard a weird noise outside.
Then what?
I went out to look.
Then what?
I saw a pterodactyl in the street.

After a couple then-whats, I figure out what the story is about. After I write the story, I figure out the theme, then I go back and add little clues as to what the theme is about.

Once you have a rough idea of the story you want to tell, spend some time thinking of the ramifications of whatever your inciting incident is. A pterodactyl in the street will have a ton of possibilities, so just pick one that gets you interested.

I've done it both ways too, but usually I keep 'notes' at the end of what I'm writing so I know where I'm headed. It also helps when I introduce something that I want to play out later to help me not forget. It's not a formal outline, almost like a briwf plot summary of the rest of the novel.

This year I used a mind map to keep track of the basic plot but it was super general. I always discover write, though I think its why I also failed the last two years. I keep hitting snags in the middle that slow me down. Hopefully the little bit of outlining and support I've got this year will see me through.

I am normally a discovery writer with any outlining getting more or less ignored a few pages in. However, that is the case when I write from beginning to end of story. For NaNoWriMo I am experimenting with writing individual scenes and doing so out of order. As a result, I am sticking more to an outline than I have in the past.

Trike wrote: "Mike wrote: "I've never been able to write an outline. Everytime I sit down to try and write one it seems like all the ideas I have for the story just drain out of my head as I stare at the blank ..."

That actually sounds like a much better way than what I've been trying, which has ultimately been nothing at all. I'll have to sit down this afternoon and run through what I've got with that method, since I have no idea where I'm going with the story. So far it's been mostly free association thinking that I've forced into narrative, which is fun, but I can't be sure I won't run out of steam halfway through and get stuck.

Mike wrote: "That actually sounds like a much better way than what I've been trying, which has ultimately been nothing at all. I'll have to sit down this afternoon and run through what I've got with that method, since I have no idea where I'm going with the story. So far it's been mostly free association thinking that I've forced into narrative, which is fun, but I can't be sure I won't run out of steam halfway through and get stuck."

I do think it helps to have sort of a general idea of the ending. Even if you completely change it once you get there, you at least have a destination in mind.

For my story, I have the beginning and the ending and only the vaguest idea of what's going to happen in the middle.

However, today is trash day, so as I was throwing out leftovers from the fridge I was thinking about people who are forced to go through garbage because of the circumstances of life.

Lightbulb.

I want my main character to be down on her luck and be a street urchin at some point, but the thrust of part of the story is her trying to retrieve an object -- the MacGuffin of the piece -- that she promised a dying soldier she would return to his commanding officer. (Or whoever. I'm not clear on that part, yet.)

So it occurred to me that if she's trying to get this object from a rich person, she needs a way to get into his house. So someone in her little gang comes up with the idea of going through the garbage to seek a clue that might help her quest to get the MacGuffin. Unfortunately, whatever passes for space watchdogs alerts the owner, who discovers these kids in his trash. The rest scatter but she doesn't have that option, so instead she looks pathetic -- which is easy to do, being an unwashed street urchin wearing nasty clothes -- and claims she was just looking for some scraps of food. The owners take pity on her and bring her into the house to feed her and clean her up.

All of that came to me in a flash.

Now I've started asking, "Then what?"

Well, she has to retrieve the MacGuffin. (Or maybe it's not there and she has to figure out where it is.) Maybe she steals it and the owner knows this. Which sets up an encounter later where she's caught with what is now considered the owner's property and he's angry with her for taking advantage of his hospitality and charity.

Then what? I have no idea. But for now I've got at least one complete scene to write, as well as the background stuff to set all of that up.

I think of it as a train journey. I know where I'm starting, where I intend to end up and some of the major stations in between, but my travelling companions and the scenery are to be discovered along the way.

I used to be really pendantic about writing and need to research everything in advanced. My fiction settings were ridiculously detailed to an extent that few published authors care to delve into (tell me where Martin mentions the names of days in Westeros), and not having a character or place name would drive me crazy.

I've grown out of planning the most neurotic background work. Building a solid base and having main names sorted before writing is great of me, and I learnt to write BLANK whenever I get stuck on a name to keep the flow of writing.

I actually have to take a break in a day or so to come up with an outline beyond the first ten thousand words and the finale.

Yeah, you can definitely get lost in world building. It's a seductive trap because it's so much fun.

Apparently those Malazan books have some crazy-detailed world-building behind them, although I haven't read them.

Speaking of George R.R. Martin, he said this a couple years ago:

“I try to do as good a job with the world-building as I can, the world-building is fun. But I’m not Tolkien. Despite being labeled ‘The American Tolkien’ I’m very different from Tolkien, actually. I occasionally get letters about my languages, for example. I was very lucky in the HBO show they hired someone to create Dothraki and they did a wonderful job. But I got letters before that saying, ‘I’m very interested in Dothraki, can you send me all your material on Dothraki, and the syntax and vocabulary’ and you know… and I have to write back and say, ‘I’ve invented seven words of Dothraki. When I need an eighth, I’ll invent that, too.’” – George R.R. Martin, Epic Fantasy Panel, San Diego Comic Con, 7-22-11