THE WORLD WAR TWO GROUP discussion

What was the best book you read on a WW II subject this year and why?

The book does not have to have been published in 2013, it could be a old favourite, but just the best WW II book you read this year.

The best World War II books that I read this year are Craig Symonds's "The Battle of Midway," Rick Atkinson's "The Guns at Last Light: The War in Western Europe, 1944-1945," Peter Harmsen's "Shanghai 1937: Stalingrad on the Yangtze," and Alan Warren's "Burma 1942: From Rangoon to Mandalay." If I must make only one choice, then I must go with "The Guns at Last Light."

I have to go with The Guns at Last Light: The War in Western Europe, 1944-1945. A great finish to a magnificent trilogy.

Some excellent books mentioned so far for the best WW2 book read in 2013 and I am sure we will have more to come. Thanks Gerald and Kris for your posts.

For me it is a toss up between two very good books:

A Dawn Like Thunder by Robert Mrazek

and

The Eagle Unbowed by Halik Kochanski

Armageddon: The Battle for Germany, 1944-1945 No contest.

Mike wrote: "Armageddon: The Battle for Germany, 1944-1945 No contest."

That is a great book.

Yep, good book there Mike, have to be up there with the best for books read in 2013!

Your two selections Manray9 are also excellent titles to recommend.

I have to agree with Kris

- hands down

My other five star book for 2013 is Alex Kershaw's



I haven't read Armageddon yet - its on the TBR List

More excellent titles, thanks Happy.

Mike wrote: "Armageddon: The Battle for Germany, 1944-1945 No contest."

A great book Mike.

I enjoyed this very much, both as a picture on the man and the work he did and the leaders he worked for/with: Years of Command by Sholto Douglas

Hmmm, well I think I will have to go for these two as my best WW2 reads for this year:


by Jason D. Mark

by Rick Atkinson

I would have to go with Alex Kershaw's The Liberator. Fantastic book, the story in itself is compelling, and Kershaw fleshes it out into an amazing book. I would and do, recommend it to anyone who likes to read nonfiction. It is a book that really sticks with you, and I think about Felix Sparks and his men often.

Hi Tionne, it is good to hear that Alex Kershaw's book has touched you in such a way.

My Name Was Five: A Novel of the Second World War
by Heinz Kohler

This memoir (labeled a novel for legal reasons) is my favorite memoir of all times.

A good selection for the best book you've read in 2013 Lilo.

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "A good selection for the best book you've read in 2013 Lilo."

Thank you, Rick. And I would advise everybody to get the paperback edition. It is so much nicer than the kindle-version. (I have both.)

by Henrik O. Lunde
I know I've read a few books this year, this is the one that really stood out to me when I'm thinking about this at work. I really enjoyed reading about Finland's actions after the Winter War.

My Name Was Five: A Novel of the Second World War
by Heinz Kohler

I forgot to say: The paperback edition is available several dollars cheaper directly from the author's website.

Good selection Jonathan, that is one book I am yet to read so I will have to try and move it up the list a bit :)

Jonathan wrote: "by Henrik O. Lunde
I know I've read a few books this year, this is the one that re..."

The little I have read about that book I am not sure I agree with the author. I can't even find any Finnish reviews about it. Sounds to me he has taken the superpower's point of view and doesn't understand the Finnish pow at all. Makes him sound condescending.

And this is just stupid: "The story of Finland fighting alongside a "Goliath" of its own has not brought pride to that nation and was a period many Finns would rather forget." Obviously he hasn't visited any Finnish bookstore or a library.

I won't disagree with the statement of the book being in terms of a superpower viewpoint. From the title of "War of choice" I think its easy to see his view is one of a war between Germany and the Soviet Union and the powers that be in Finland made a choice. I just liked for once I was able to get my hands on a book that gave a nice overview of the military and political situation of Finland post winter war. It seems most everything that I read on Finland is about the winter war.

Out of curiosity, your statement of the quote being stupid, is the stupid comment just with the statement of "many Finns would rather forget" or is it also with the statement of the continuation war not bringing pride to Finland?

Yes, it seems to be almost the only book in English about it. But considering Lunde doesn't speak Finnish (or Russian I believe) he has to rely on second-hand information about Finnish intentions etc.

Both, I'd say. I don't think Finns in general think about pride in connection with WWII. That's a priviledge of those who were not fighting for their survival. We are grateful for veterans for what they did but I don't think any of them is/was proud of Winter War, either. Besides, Americans seem to be proud for helping Stalin. The pot calling the kettle... I think the only war Finns might be proud of is the Estonian Independence war where there were hundreds of Finnish volunteers. Estonians paid it back to us in the Continuation War.

ETA: So implying that we are not proud of it, is stupid because we also are not "un-proud" or somehow ashamed of it (even if some people try to make us be). It just shows he doesn't "get" us at all and also underestimates us because of it. It's the same with "Finlandization". Kekkonen even said something like: "Even if the whole world would turn Communist, Finland would stay as a Nordic democracy". They knew how to play the game even if it seemed like something else to the outsiders. But it's easy to judge if you yourself are safe.

Tytti,

I don't think you will find too many people from the Allied nations saying they were proud to help Stalin, I think it was a case that they had to so as to help fight a common enemy in Nazi Germany. I am still yet to read the book in question but I don't think the title is all that wrong in regards to it was a war of Finland's choice. The reasons behind that choice is what is debatable and as a Finn you would know more about that than most of us.

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Tytti,

I don't think you will find too many people from the Allied nations saying they were proud to help Stalin, I think it was a case that they had to so as to help fight a common enemy in Nazi..."

AR: I think you are right. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." Churchill said to John Colville: "If Hitler invaded Hell, I would make at least a favourable reference to the devil in the House of Commons."

You have to love Churchill, he has left history with many great quotes :)

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "You have to love Churchill, he has left history with many great quotes :)"

He remains very popular in America. Any book, movie or TV show about Winston gets plenty of attention.

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Tytti,

I don't think you will find too many people from the Allied nations saying they were proud to help Stalin, I think it was a case that they had to so as to help fight a common enemy in Nazi..."

I agree Rick but at the time I do think there was a significant measure of pride in Britain reading contemporary accounts. That pride was founded in helping an ally through providing supplies (for any ally to help Britain survive) to punch Germany on the nose and help end the war but also pride too in the work and sacrifices done by the people to help achieve that supply chain.

Also for many people I can see from reading about this period that in the 1930s membership of communist parties and communism wasn't tainted or seen as a threat to society - note the Spanish civil war's volunteer brigades for example, and for many it was still seen as the way to remove poverty and class based systems.

Whereas following WWII and into the 1950s Communism most certainly became the very real enemy and the threat to people whereas Fascism/Nazism most certainly was seen as the evil by the start of 1938.

Some politicians in countries weren't comfortable being bedfellows with the Soviet Union but an ally who can relieve pressure and help save your country when you have your back against the wall is not to be discounted or discouraged.

Maybe 'pride' is a wrong word but I've seen it mentioned in many discussions. At least the younger generations seem to think it was a great thing. Especially when it's (and was) known what happened in the 1930s. Whereas after Stalin things were getting better and only then some get scared... (And people start blaming Finland again, now for being too close.) I don't get it.

Again I understand the situation but it's infuriating that Americans make assumptions about us that are based to absolutely nothing when they don't bother to apply the same "rules" to themselves. I hate double standards.

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "I am still yet to read the book in question but I don't think the title is all that wrong in regards to it was a war of Finland's choice."

Well, the choice of being run-over and becoming the newest Soviet rebublic or fighting to stay independent. All wars are choices. I think it sounds prejudiced from the start. If it was based on real Finnish documents it would be ok but if it's just based on German pow...

I think Lisa's review here in GR reflects my own opinions best, whereas Jimmie A. Kepler's describes something I don't recognize.

Tytti wrote: "Maybe 'pride' is a wrong word but I've seen it mentioned in many discussions. At least the younger generations seem to think it was a great thing. Especially when it's (and was) known what happened..."

I don't understand the "assumptions" you believe Americans are making about Finland. First, and to our shame, the vast majority of Americans couldn't point out Finland on a map. Those who are educated and knowledgeable about WW II and Finland's role would support Finland's position overwhelmingly. We were not at war against Finland and did not sever diplomatic relations until Finland signed a military pact with Germany in 1944 – and we still didn’t declare war. Considering Finland's ties with Nazi Germany and belligerent status against the USSR and Great Britain (our allies), I think our position was rather sympathetic to Finland. I wouldn’t place too much credence in the writings of one ex-officer.

Check out this link to the official U.S. State Dept document on the history of American-Finnish relations. It is a PDF file. Note Sections V and VI.

http://photos.state.gov/libraries/fin...

You are right about Communist Party members being very proud of the allies support for the Soviet Union Geevee, even as far away as Australia!

Tytti wrote: Well, the choice of being run-over and becoming the newest Soviet rebublic or fighting to stay independent. All wars are choices.i>

I'm curious have you read the book, or just the reviews? Because this view is in some ways the whole thesis of the book. After the winter war, Finland was presented with the choice of allying itself with Germany.

But in the authors view, was that choice necessary for Finland? That is kind of the point, and I think he lays out a nice argument for why Finland made the choice they did. I think any nation would make that choice, the US included. And Finland is not alone in that choice. Look at how many counties allied themselves with Germany - as Lunde points out, Finland is the only democracy that makes that choice.

For not really being able to read many other books on Finland with this phase of WWII, I'll be honest I think he lays out a good argument that does make sense to me. But I'll admit, from really only reading this one book, he could easily be biased and I'm unable to see all the mistakes and misinterpretations he is making.

Thanks Jonathan and good debate from both sides. I have yet to read anything from substance on Finland's involvement in the war (partly as until recently I think English language availability was sparse) and so this is one I will tackle.

Tytti if you can get hold of a copy to read then your thoughts as a Finn would be interesting to compare to those of the author and non-Finnish readers.

Geevee wrote: "Thanks Jonathan and good debate from both sides. I have yet to read anything from substance on Finland's involvement in the war (partly as until recently I think English language availability was ..."

I can recommend:

Winter War by Vaino Tanner.

Tanner was foreign minister of Finland during the Winter War and held several other senior positions in the Finnish government, including Prime Minister. His book covers the diplomatic and intra-governmental histories of the the war

Anyone else want to throw in a title they think was one of the best books on WW2 that they have read this year (regardless of publication date)?

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Anyone else want to throw in a title they think was one of the best books on WW2 that they have read this year (regardless of publication date)?"

I have not finished "Forgotten Ally: China's World War II, 1937-1945," but so far it is superb.

Flipping the discussion a little what books are people readily anticipating for 2014 (apologies Rick if this si too off topic and you want to move).

This is one for me: Rising Sun, Falling Skies: The Disastrous Java Sea Campaign of World War II by Jeffrey Cox

Glad to hear you are enjoying your book on China Gerald, sounds likeIi will have to try and get to my copy very soon!

or by Rana Mitter

Good idea Geevee, members are more than welcome to mention books that they are eagerly awaiting publication in 2014. One book I'm waiting to see is due out next month:

by David Schranck

Along with the final volume in David Glantz's Stalingrad trilogy!

One more for The Guns at Last Light: The War in Western Europe, 1944-1945 because.....Atkinson!

An excellent nomination Hudson :)

Members can also post details of any WW2 book they have on their Christmas list and are hoping Santa will drop in their stockings this year.

One of the best books I have read is Guns of War about a Canadian artillery forward observer in Northwest Europe 1944-45

Also Finest Hour, which was a gripping read of the Battle of France and the Battle of Britain, covering stories from civilians, airmen, pilots and sailors.

I have also just finished reading a classic book on the D-Day landings and Normandy campaign. Overlord

I'm also keen to read Guns at Last Light as I have read the first two amazing books in the series.

All excellent nominations for your best WW2 for 2013. I also enjoyed Finest Hour and Overlord and I am pretty sure you will love Guns at Last Light a fitting final volume in that trilogy, you won't be disappointed.

I am looking forward to getting The Rzhev Slaughterhouse The Red Army's Forgotten 15-month Campaign against Army Group Center, 1942-1943 I have read little about this part of the eastern front.

I hope Santa's nice to you then Kris and you get the book :)

Justin wrote: "One of the best books I have read is Guns of War about a Canadian artillery forward observer in Northwest Europe 1944-45"

Justin I have read his
and as individual volumes
does yours cover his first volume (which I have yet to read) ?

Kris wrote: "I am looking forward to getting The Rzhev Slaughterhouse The Red Army's Forgotten 15-month Campaign against Army Group Center, 1942-1943 I have read little about this part of the ea..."

The Rzhev Gap was in fact the most brutal campaign numerically regarding total casualties. I interviewed German and Soviet participants. It was Antietam, Shiloh and Gettysburg all rolled into one. Gripping stuff indeed.