Reading Proust's In Search of Lost Time in 2014 discussion

Finally got the book from the library today, so I will start reading it! Hopefully I will catch up quickly to where the rest of you are.

I completely agree Alia. It is a goal of mine to try to pay more attention, to be mindful in hopes of realizing more of life's potential.

It's believed that Bergotte is based on Anatole France. I've heard of him but has anyone read anything by him?

No, but I'm really intrigued by Bergotte and was thinking it was a real person. If it's true that it was based on France i would love to read some of his work.

There are many superb "blogs" on Proust.
One is Dennis Abrams' "The Cork-Lined Room."

Here is his take on the "models" of the characters:

"Now, does it matter if the fictional Bergotte was perhaps inspired by the real-life Anatole France? Not in the least. Bergotte is not Anatole France — he is a fictional character, created and brought to life by Marcel Proust. Is it interesting that France may have been the inspiration for Bergotte? Certainly, but, at least in my opinion, nothing more than that. While it may be interesting to know the real-life inspirations for Proust’s characters (and keep in mind that they are Proust’s characters), and I will point them out when necessary, the idea that whole books are written looking for the real-life counterparts to Proust’s creations strikes me as besides the point all together." Dennis Abrams

I would give you the site, but it is in the "Spoiler!" category.
You will need to search on your own.

Marcelita wrote: "There are many superb "blogs" on Proust. One is Dennis Abrams' "The Cork-Lined Room."

Here is his take on the "models" of the characters:

"Now, does it matter if the fictional Bergotte was perhaps inspired by the real-life Anatole France? ..."

Thanks for the blog info Marcelita. I agree with the quote that it is 'interesting' but 'does not really matter' whether a fictional character is based on a real person. But until I looked I didn't know whether Bergotte was real or fictional. I can't see that it does any harm in looking for connections between real people and fictional characters as long as we know that that is what we're doing. Presumably contemporary French readers would have easily noticed the Bergotte/France connection whereas for us, reading a hundred years later, it's not so obvious.

One of the things I like about reading novels from different times and/or places is in comparing it with modern Western life. It's often illuminating to see what is different and what is the same. I recently read Zola's 'Rougon-Macquart' series of novels which was astounding for many reasons but one of those reasons was the amount of everyday details that he packed into the novels. Proust seems to be similar in that sense, though different in other ways. So for me, it's not just a sense of reading a novel it's also about immersing myself in a different world or culture.

Alia wrote: "I think that Proust had an ability to see and feel what is indeed often imperceptible to many, because we are too busy to notice little things going on around us. If you think about it, lots of people, including myself are closed off to the profundity of life's potential. Thoughts? "

I think that for most of us fragments of profundity bubble up every now and then but quickly disappear. Where Proust (and others) excel is in their analysis of such thoughts and experiences...I don't think I could even begin to do what Proust does.

My favourite part of this week's read was the character study of the narrator's aunt and her relationship with the rest of the family and servants, in particular Françoise. Oh, and the episode with the narrator's uncle Alphonse.

What did others like/dislike about this week's reading?

Alia wrote: "He never mentions what age he was at the beginning, but I had in my head that he was 10 or younger."

The Alphonse/Adolphe confusion was my fault - I didn't look at my copy before posting. I'm afraid my memory isn't as good as Proust's...

I guessed that he was about 10 as well.

Jonathan wrote: "Marcelita wrote: "There are many superb "blogs" on Proust. One is Dennis Abrams' "The Cork-Lined Room."

Here is his take on the "models" of the characters:

"Now, does it matter if the fictiona..."

Yes, I understand. You were curious whether Bergotte was fictional or real. Proust mixes both, so you are wise to continue to check.

Two "character" sites, which will have Spoilers, due to the descriptions:
Mark Calkins's Temps Perdu:
http://www.tempsperdu.com/achar.html

André Vincens' Proust's Characters:
http://proust-personnages.fr/?page_id...
(English translation: http://translate.google.com/translate...)

Regarding Adolph and the Lady in Pink, the passage that I enjoyed in particular was when the young narrator was unable to stifle his desire to tell his parents of the encounter. The way it was worded, I found hilarious:

"Madly in love with the lady in pink, I covered my old uncle's tobacco-stained cheeks with passionate kisses, and while with some embarrassment he gave me to understand without actually saying that he would rather I did not tell my parents about this visit, I assured him with tears in my eyes that his kindness had made so strong an impression upon me that some day I would most certainly find a way of expressing my gratitude. So strong an impression, indeed, had it made upon me that two hours later, after a string of mysterious utterances which did not strike me as giving my parents a sufficiently clear idea of the new importance with which I had been invested, I found it simpler to tell them in the minutest detail of the visit I had paid that afternoon."
-Location 1645 in Kindle

What I love about that description is that it captures the impatience that all kinds of people (not just children) have about sharing an important emotional experience. We start out being elusive and suggestive, trying to draw out our listeners into asking us questions that will force our hand and then, when they aren't following our script for them, we spill the beans in fantastic detail. I can identify with that experience.

Larry wrote: "Regarding Adolph and the Lady in Pink, the passage that I enjoyed in particular was when the young narrator was unable to stifle his desire to tell his parents of the encounter. The way it was word..."

Nice quote Larry. I find the need to unburden oneself is something I notice more in others than myself. I have no trouble keeping silent whilst others yak on.

There's a lot of humour in the book so far. I especially like the narrator's aunt and all her foibles: talking to herself, not admitting to sleeping, not leaving her bed, watching the events of Combray through her window and sending others to find out more and best of all, her strict criteria for accepting guests.

re: the narrator's aunt's criteria for guests from page 82:

In short, my aunt demanded that whoever came to see her must at one and the same time approve of her way of life, commiserate with her in her sufferings, and assure her of ultimate recovery.

Jonathan wrote: "re: the narrator's aunt's criteria for guests from page 82:In short, my aunt demanded that whoever came to see her must at one and the same time approve of her way of life, commiserate with her in ..."

I'm lurking the group, having just finished this in 2013, but it was so much fun I enjoy re-reading bits and pieces.

Jonathan, this comment struck me as well, because we have all known folks who bask in their misery; they brag of their ailments and like nothing more that we "approve" and commiserate with them.

Martin wrote: "Jonathan, this comment struck me as well, because we have all known folks who bask in their misery; they brag of their ailments and like nothing more that we "approve" and commiserate with them. "

No problem, Martin...lurk away...

His aunt seems content to let her life become more and more restricted, possibly so that she can retain some control over her life, with whatever's left. I also found fascinating the way that she had such an enormous interest in the events in Combray...again, it seems like a control thing. Either way, Proust portrays her with compassion and humour.

We could compare the aunts interest of the goings on of Combray to the way many older people wil now a day watch television. i guess it's a way to live vicariosly through others. Ha, as we may do upon reading Proust.

Oh, and i must mention that i do so appreciate that compassion and humor Jonathan speaks of as i am able so see some similarities between the narrator's aunt and my own elderly father whom has the ability to drive me to distraction much of the time.

Is the description of the church the first time he actually says "Time"? "-the name of the fourth being Time" Maybe I only noticed it because it was capitalized...but I'm curious as to how often he'll be actually using the word... anyone see any others thus far?

midnightfaerie wrote: "Is the description of the church the first time he actually says "Time"? "-the name of the fourth being Time" Maybe I only noticed it because it was capitalized...but I'm curious as to how often ..."

Searched my Kindle (Modern Library)--that was the first time Proust uses "Time," but will not be the last.

midnightfaerie wrote: "Is the description of the church the first time he actually says "Time"? "-the name of the fourth being Time" Maybe I only noticed it because it was capitalized...but I'm curious as to how often he'll be actually using the word... anyone see any others thus far? "

This is probably not the kind of answer you wanted, but I couldn't help getting a copy of Moncrieff's translation and run

cat ISOLT.txt | grep -o " Time " | wc

which returned the number 29. Of course, This may also include occurrences of the word which are capitalized simply because they begin a sentence.

Interestingly, the very last of the 1,356,179 words in the novel is... Time. :)

Edit: Sorry, after posting an answer, I actually read your post. The answer is yes, the passage about the church is the first occurrence.

No, no! I was actually curious about how many times it was in the novel as well, but didn't ask because we weren't done with it yet. I forget some ppl are reading it on kindles and such and can check that easily. Very interesting. Thanks so much for the insight! I didn't look at the last word, but it doesn't surprise me that it's "time".

Well, I'm behind in the reading and have been avoiding the threads for sections I haven't gotten to yet, but I'm glad to see conversations still going. I'm very much enjoying the book though I can't start and stop reading as quickly as I'm used to. I love the very real and modern depictions of family and smallish town life (I think Combray's not big right?); everything feels so fresh.

Just hit page 100, I'll catch up eventually...I think I'm falling in love with Proust...some of his thoughts on time, love, youth, and reading are really striking a chord with me...

midnightfaerie wrote: "Just hit page 100, I'll catch up eventually...I think I'm falling in love with Proust...some of his thoughts on time, love, youth, and reading are really striking a chord with me..."

I'll be playing catch up with you... eventually. I promised myself I'd finish War & Peace before I start another big book. I'm close...

Oh jeez, I hated war and peace...Proust, on the other hand...*sigh* well, he's a new love interest...

I've become somewhat of a Tolstoy fanatic recently, and I'll tell you - I certainly would not have enjoyed W&P had I not known ahead of time to get a listing of the characters to help keep them straight!

But now, I'm playing catch up. I've just finished your week 1 reading and am starting now on week 2. :)

Awesome! I'm still behind...but trying to catch up...

Can anyone tell me what the relationship is between the Lady in Pink and the Uncle? I feel like I must be tremendously confused, because that phrase about "that kind of woman" makes it sound like they're having an affair.

Jonathan wrote: "It's believed that Bergotte is based on Anatole France. I've heard of him but has anyone read anything by him?"

Bergotte would be, according to what I read a fusion of Anatole France, of course, but also John Ruskin, Léon Daudet, Ernest Renan, Paul Bourget, Henri Bergson and Proust himself. Except for Proust, I'm afraid I haven't read any of the above. I started France's "La rôtisserie de la Reine Pédauque", but it fell off my hands.

Jonathan wrote: "Martin wrote: "Jonathan, this comment struck me as well, because we have all known folks who bask in their misery; they brag of their ailments and like nothing more that we "approve" and commiserat..."

And the character of Aunt Leonie is not without reminding us of Proust's lifestyle, who chose at the end of his life an existence of seclusion not unlike his fictional aunt's.

Sunny in Wonderland wrote: "Can anyone tell me what the relationship is between the Lady in Pink and the Uncle? I feel like I must be tremendously confused, because that phrase about "that kind of woman" makes it sound like ..."

If my memory of La Recherche is any good, it is never said, but implied, that the Lady in Pink, might very well be Oncle Adolphe's mistress. I also think there is a question, never answered, that it might also have been a younger Odette, which would hardly be surprising.

Thanks. Who is Odette?

You will find out when you get to "Swann in Love" and will also understand why Marcel's family refer to her as "that kind of woman".

Re: that kind of woman

I liked the quote (p.88 Vintage UK, possibly p.104 in ML) when the narrator is commenting on his Uncle's 'relations' and just before the 'lady in pink' episode:

Now my uncle knew many of them [actresses] personally, and also ladies of another class, not clearly distinguished from actresses in my mind.

Jonathan wrote: "Re: that kind of woman

I liked the quote (p.88 Vintage UK, possibly p.104 in ML) when the narrator is commenting on his Uncle's 'relations' and just before the 'lady in pink' episode: Now my uncle..."

:)

Andree wrote: "Sunny in Wonderland wrote: "Can anyone tell me what the relationship is between the Lady in Pink and the Uncle? I feel like I must be tremendously confused, because that phrase about "that kind of..."

Yes I suspect that too, particularly as the young Marcel develops an infatuation for Madame Swann