Takedown Twenty discussion

I think after 20 books worth, Stephanie needs to make a choice between Ranger and Morelli. I certainly know which direction I would go in and it would NOT be with the grandma with the evil eye!!

Have to say, I laugh out loud when reading these books.

If she doesn't no one is going to keep reading. Even if she does its pretty much hit the limit. Its a fun read, and this one was better than the last, but its getting too repetitive. Since Ranger isn't interested in marriage it would be pointless to choose him. And if I picking, I'd pick the one who put in the time for me, which would be Joe. Ranger may be fun, but I don't think it would be the stuff a lifetime is built on.

Ranger may be hot, but
1. He doesn't want to get married.
2. He eats HEALTHY food (what the heck was with the junk food in Takedown 20?!?)
3. He doesn't watch sports, he works out in his spare time.
4. He doesn't 'get' Stephanie's family.

This would NEVER work long-term! Truth is, they'd make each other miserable in less than 2 years (maybe even one.)

Morelli is the opposite of Ranger (likes her kind of food, her kind of pasttimes, her family).

I agree. I have been a fan usince Book 1 and totally tired. I would love to see a down and dirty sex scene with her and Ranger but she and Jie are the marrying couple. Janet needs to write one more totally hot book and end the series.

I don't understand why everyone is making a fuss about Takedown Twenty. I honestly believe it was a fun read. I was one of the few to write a positive review on Amazon. May be its because many of us are so familiar with the characters. But it has to be noted that there are many new readers every year. We are driving away potential new readers by making disparaging remarks about the book on retail sites. Would it not be better if we keep mum and stop buying the book if we do not like the book?

I thought the whole purpose of GoodReads.com was to have discussions of books! If all anyone wants to read is 'happy talk' about every new book, then they can just read the "fluff" put out by the publishing house!

One's free time to read is limited. If numerous reviews regarding a new book say it is not good, some people will decide to skip it or put it farther down their 'to be read' list. Others won't care and will rush to read it anyway. So be it. But only putting 'wonderful' reviews on GoodReads means EVERY book will look 'wonderful'...how is THAT discerning?

I honestly feel that discernment is not synonymous with trashing a book.

If someone has read only ONE Stephanie Plum book then, yes! I'm sure they will enjoy the book. They should have at it and enjoy it. If someone has read the 19 preceding books, they may very well not enjoy this 20th book because the plot and characterizations are VERY MUCH like the previous 6 books. There hasn't been a lot of forward movement by the characters.

If saying that this book is so incredibly similar to the previous 6 books that readers of the entire series will find nothing new in it (other than the ridiculous 'giraffe that no-one calls the police about' sub-plot) is considered 'trashing' the book, then I guess I'm 'trashing' it.

Evanovich has been lazy in her writing and lazy in her plotting for the last 1/2 dozen books in this series. That is my opinion and I'm pretty sure I'm entitled to it. You don't agree, that is your opinion and you're entitled to it.

Thank you!

I laughed out loud when I read this book. Lula is so well written I am usually in stitches when I read her scenes. I agree it's time for Stephanie to make a choice, and I felt in the last book Stephanie might be questioning her relationship with Joe a little bit and growing a bit closer with Ranger. Time will tell.

pearl_seeker wrote: "If someone has read only ONE Stephanie Plum book then, yes! I'm sure they will enjoy the book. They should have at it and enjoy it. If someone has read the 19 preceding books, they may very well no..."

pearl_seeker, I totally agree! I started buying these books in hard cover after I read the first 2 because I loved them and thought I would love them forever but the last 6 or so have been a waste of my money. Lazy nailed it and I'm not even sure Janet is theone still wwriting this series. I have read her other recent books and they are good! I wanted to have this entire series in hard cover but if it doesn't end soon, then I'm done!!

I don't buy her books anymore I borrow. It's time to wrap it up already! I want her end up with morelli and live happily ever after.

I would like to see one hit sizzling sex scene with Ranger and end the series.

pearl_seeker wrote: "Ranger may be hot, but
1. He doesn't want to get married.
2. He eats HEALTHY food (what the heck was with the junk food in Takedown 20?!?)
3. He doesn't watch sports, he works out in his spare time..."

I'll concede with one very hot sex scene with Morelli then.

I love the plum series, but the last 5 books have been very bad In my opinion. I feel it's time to have Stephanie make a choice and her get pregnant or something. I didn't even smile once. At least on 19 I laugh a couple of times.

I love Stephanie and her men. I feel what makes her so enjoyable is her simplicity. Her dreams and desires are very few and she lives in the moment. She may think about a future but is still a moment to moment girl. I think we girls are really envious of her. To have two good men to choose from and for them to be such hunks only adds spice to her daily life. Keep going Janet Evanovich. You entertain me with every story. What a comic relief to a stress filled day.

I think 20 is showing us that what Stephanie *thought* she wanted in life was Joe, but she's slowly realizing Ranger is more her speed.

I guess as a guy I have a totally different view on this whole thing. Yes guys read Janet's books, and enjoy them. I see Joe as the by-the-book good angel on one shoulder and Ranger as the whatever-it-takes bad angel on the other shoulder. Stephanie has to balance them in her life, not saying the scales should tip one way or the other. I love the different animals roaming the books, and the menagerie of friends and business partners Stephanie has accumulated along the way.

I have to admit, when I read the first book, I didn't quite get the appeal of this series, but strangely, I was compelled to keep reading. The entire series to date later, (including the holiday novellas!) I do enjoy the series, but really hope that Stephanie "grows" up a bit more or at least make some more 'adult' decisions. It'd be nice to see things move on a bit more and see where new life choices take her!

Stephanie needs to make a choice, but she's never had a real relationship with Ranger, so I think she needs to try actually dating him before making a decision (and I think she needs to choose Ranger). I think staying with Joe is because he's comfortable, it's what her family expects of her, and it is what she thinks she should want. In reality, I can't see her turning into her sister (which is what Joe wants). I think Ranger is more suited to the life she is likely to continue to lead. I also think Ranger truly loves her for who she is and will be behind her no matter what. Ranger is the one that would walk through fire for her, has (offensively) killed a man to protect her from his retribution, has killed men in defense of her, and has jumped off a freaking bridge to save her. I don't see that kind of devotion from Morelli.

if she isn't going to make a choice then the next book should jump 15 or 20 years and see how they handled the dynamics through the years now that could be funny....

I am one of the few people who actually liked this book WAY more than the previous two or three. The opening scene with the giraffe... and Lula hoping it wasn't the mushrooms on last night's pizza, was great! Naming the giraffe Kevin. No cars were exploded, but the fire truck destroying one? Unique.

Now, here I get all into the social "correctness"... WHY does she have to choose one guy or the other? Why does she have to settle down to marry and procreate? Society pressures people into believing that this is the "must-do"; maybe that's why divorce rates are so high.
She thought about approaching Joe on the commitment topic until she got caught in "game day" mayhem. She's obviously not cut out to endure a Morelli gathering, at least not yet. On the other side of the spectrum, she knows just how "yummy" Ranger is, but she also knows that he claims he is not interested in any type of dedicated relationship attachment.
I state claims because I've rarely seen another character in any other series ever go out of their way, without hesitation, as Ranger does for Stephanie. I think he's made it a habit of distancing himself because of his line of work. He does not want to appear to have weaknesses that can be used against him. But I truly believe he is harboring some seriously deep feelings for her (evident even by how many trackers she found when going through her closet).
Sure, Joe is the "easier" choice. They grew up together and have several things in common. But does that make him the right choice? Because he's "comfortable" or "easier"? To me, that kind of translates to "BORING" in the long run.

For me, Stephanie's making a choice doesn't necessarily translate in to marriage and kids, but that she quits bouncing around like a teenager. In the earlier books it was understandable, but after 12 it seemed pretty obvious to me that she should choose Ranger. lol

We also need to keep in mind that although the series was started 20 years ago (holy cow, huh?), it has been much shorter than that in Plum's time line. They are all single & consenting adults. I don't see why shy has to make a choice.

That said, if she does make a choice, I'm all for her choosing Ranger over Morelli. She seems to get herself into quite a few messes and Ranger not only accepts that about her, but comes to her aid/rescue without much more than a "babe". LOL. Morelli is not as supportive of her choices and has that "I'm a cop, so I don't want to know" thing going all the time.

I vote for Ranger! Joe is boring and Steph has too many problems with his family. I think now that Ranger is starting to see a future with her, he'll be a great husband. He's always keeping an eye on her and saving her life. Joe just complains about her job. With Ranger, she has sensual, mind-blowing sex; with Joe it's primal gorilla sex. Ranger has always been there for her and they never fight; she's always fighting with Joe. Her situation with Joe is already terrible and will get much worse if they get married.

I still enjoy the series but I admit the indecisiveness is getting a little old. Didn't someone somewhere once say something about how if a (heteronormative/monogamy-seeking) woman can't choose between two men then neither is right for her and she should dump them both for Option 3?

Anyway, in the beginning I was pretty sure Morelli was Mr. Right and Ranger was Mr. Right Now. After reading T20, I've changed my mind: she should give Ranger a serious go. If Stephanie stays with Morelli she'll end up a less domestically accomplished version of her mother. With Ranger she'll keep her grandmother's spirit. I like her mother a lot, but let's face it: Stephanie rocks the crazy. She should go with her strengths.

Plus Ranger has great taste in shower gel. And they're good for each other -- she gets him to relax (he laughed! ate junk food!) and he gives her a safety net so she can take leaps of faith (or, you know, survive falling off a bridge). There's some serious potential there. I love Joe, I do, but Stephanie will always feel inadequate in his world and he'll always feel exasperated with her about something. Well, outside of the bedroom. ;-)

It's time to wrap things up. In a Bulgari-scented bow on smooth, expensive sheets.

Tina wrote: "I am one of the few people who actually liked this book WAY more than the previous two or three. The opening scene with the giraffe... and Lula hoping it wasn't the mushrooms on last night's pizza,..."

Well said!! I agree 100%!!!

I liked 19 and 20. Wasn't a big fan of 15-18.

Tina wrote: "I am one of the few people who actually liked this book WAY more than the previous two or three. The opening scene with the giraffe... and Lula hoping it wasn't the mushrooms on last night's pizza,..."

Me too! I was bored through the previous 2 or 3 - but spotted #20 in the library and it was a light & fluffy read.

If she has to chose (and I'm only bored with the options of either Joe or Ranger) then at least give Ranger a better chance. Joe's been so on-again off-again that it shouldn't be.

I agree. I like Ranger so much better and he does go above and beyond to let her do her own thing. I think Ranger should have a better chance. Joe's a nice safe choice but does Stephanie really seem like she's the nice safe choice type? After all, she married Dicky as it states in the books because it was what was expected of her and now it's pretty much expected for her and Joe to marry....and they do have history but they have never done anything about it which is usually a sign in a realationship anyways that something might not be right. J.E. needs to write Ranger into Steph's life more.

The only thing new in this book is the giraffe and, really, a giraffe running around in Jersey? It's time to close this character out. I only read four of the series and I'm done with it. It was fun while it lasted.
Oh, and Ranger always has her back - where's Joe? You can't discount that.

Karen wrote: "...Oh, and Ranger always has her back - where's Joe? You can't discount that. Completely agree.

Am I the only one who was pissed with Joe when Stephanie went to his house and found a big get together that she had no idea about? She is still an outsider in his life (even after all these years).

She really needs to choose - or move on. I have loved the series from the beginning, but like a lot of other people just feel like we've been killing time the last few books. I know this formula works which is why more books keep coming, but at some point at least half of the readers need to be satisfied with some progress in Stephanie's personal life.

Maybe Stephanie should consider counselling. She can get her act together and find someone who both has his act together and wants (and is able) to be with her.

I read of Stephanie's adventures for pure fictional escapism... fictional being the operative word here. I don't want "normal" for my entertainment value. She has a wonderfully dysfunctional family and associates with weird, colorful characters. Sure, at times the plots become repetitive, even redundant.. but still somehow comfortable, like sliding into my fav recliner, or old scruffy house shoes. Making a choice would ruin the series for me, as Steph needs freedom to be herself, not tied to a particular man.

Amy wrote: "Am I the only one who was pissed with Joe when Stephanie went to his house and found a big get together that she had no idea about? She is still an outsider in his life (even after all these years)."

I wasn't so much pissed as surprised, and curious why Evanovich took that turn in the book. Perhaps to show the reader (and Stephanie) how superficial Joe is?

Carol wrote: "I read of Stephanie's adventures for pure fictional escapism... fictional being the operative word here. I don't want "normal" for my entertainment value. She has a wonderfully dysfunctional family..."

I see the argument both ways. On one hand, I really like that she's unattached and wacky and independent, and I don't read the books just to see if her relationship status changes (or doesn't). That said, if we're not supposed to obsess over the love triangle then Evanovich has got to give us something else to focus on. I'm not half as critical as some people are about the last half-dozen or so, but if there isn't going to be some romantic development then we need meatier storylines to take centre stage.

I suspect that Evanovich has been going through a bit of series fatigue, and that's when fans start dissecting and speculating. Keeps life interesting until things pick up again. :-)

Morelli would have been a rapist according to today's definition of child sexual offender. He took advantage of an underage girl in a not totally consensual manner. Do you forgive him for that?

Jennifer wrote: "Amy wrote: "Am I the only one who was pissed with Joe when Stephanie went to his house and found a big get together that she had no idea about? She is still an outsider in his life (even after all ..."


Amy and Jennifer, I agree with you on one hand, but I also thought it was showing us that Stephanie wasn't aware of a big part of Joe's life, not that she was being shut out, that she was oblivious. I don't have the book to refer to, though, so can't back it up. Just my impression. But both ways, more reinforcement that Joe is not the man for her. Ranger all the way. Although I do like all Joe's references to cupcakes and icing. :)
While I do wish JE would put some more meat into the series (she wrote some very gripping stuff in the series along with all the fluff and the chaos and the laughs. That is part of the recipe that made the series great. A down to earth heroine, outlandish situations, humor, hot guys and some serious grit. She took out the grit and the integrity is slipping away. She replaced the grit with slapsticky sleaze.
Still, the great thing is that we can amuse ourselves bickering over Ranger vs. Joe.
Babe! lol

Dorothy wrote: "Morelli would have been a rapist according to today's definition of child sexual offender. He took advantage of an underage girl in a not totally consensual manner. Do you forgive him for that?"

Thank you! That has always made me uncomfortable. However, when I mentioned that aspect of the books, and Joe's character, my friends who also followed the series acted as if it were nothing. I think they are wrong.

To me, it was not nothing. If Joe did not actually assault her (and I maintain he did), he came as close as anyone could come to doing so. And yet, he is still portrayed as a 'good guy'. What is that about?!?

Part of the issue with a series of books is that you can only do so much before things start to feel repetitive. By now, in the series, Evanovich has established expectations: sexual tension between Stephanie and Ranger; sexual activity and live-in relationship with Morelli; Lula being her same old self; Vinnie being a pain in the backside; Randy Briggs being a three-foot-tall pain in the backside; etc. Even introducing new characters doesn't seem to give any of the old characters new dimensions; I know exactly what I'm going to get every time I pick up the latest book in the series, so if I choose to read it, I'm doing it for the mindless entertainment I get out of it, not because the characters are getting more dimensional or intriguing. Anybody else feel like that?

Tina wrote: "I am one of the few people who actually liked this book WAY more than the previous two or three. The opening scene with the giraffe... and Lula hoping it wasn't the mushrooms on last night's pizza,..."
I agree. Why not have the best of both worlds so long as both guys are aware and don't mind??

Stephanie needs to meet a new love interest and give up on these two non-committal, self-centered men. She needs to take a vacation or go on a trip where there are more opportunities to untangle from some of these going nowhere situations.The storyline is just so predictable by now.

No. She doesn't. Her books, her heroine. If her sales start slacking off, she'll know what to do.

Elizabeth, I agree: her books, her heroine. I don't understand why readers want Steph committed to just one man. Her books still make me laugh out loud, and that's why I read them.