Reading the Chunksters discussion

Last week! I know some people have posted that they're at the finish line. I still have about 30 pages. I'm hoping to finish this evening.

Any discussion about the last few chapters and the book overall?

I wanted to slap everyone? I was crying when Melly died, and when Bonnie died. I was just so angry with everyone in the book. Also I'm a bit easy to get all teary.

In the end I didn't really like this book, I don't feel its aged as gracefully as other classics. That said, I'm still glad that I read it!

So did Melanie know or did she not? It sure looked to Scarlett if Melly knew about her infatuation with Ashley, but to me it might as well could have been a last wish to leave the loved ones with someone who cares. And can please someone confirm to me that Ashley indeed had a thing for Scarlett and just married Melanie out of duty? I'm confused!

I think if Melly knew, which is debatable, that she forgave them for it, never thought that they had done anything wrong, and understood because she, too, loved Scarlett so much.

I think Ashley felt about Scarlett the same way she thought about him. He was totally infatuated with Scarlett, but once Melanie died, he realized that Melanie had always been his rock, while Scarlett was as useful as a dream. That's why he kissed her in the house and in the orchard, that's why he couldn't bear the thought of Rhett touching her. I do think that when he embraced her at the mill they were both realizing that they had nothing between them but their past.

I think he married Melly because while he wanted Scarlett, he knew that they would not be happy together, and because he was too damn scared to cause a "scene"

Perhaps Melanie just didn't care about Scarlet's intentions. She only saw good in others, so I bet she trusted Ashley completely. To me it was natural that she would ask Scarlett to take care of Ashley. After all this is what Scarlett had always done.

My impression was that Ashley always loved Melanie, though he was physically attracted to Scarlet. He was a very weak person who just did not have the strength to resist Scarlet completely. He should have had enough of a spine to spell things out for her plainly and stick to his guns. I also thought that to somebody other than Scarlet, his refusal of her and decision to marry Melanie would have been clear enough. Scarlet was just so strong willed and confident! I think she could not see that he had refused her.

I felt like Ashley was to blame as well for Scarlett's persistent persuasion of him. He might have told her several times that he wasn't interested, but his actions (kissing, embracing, endless speeches of how he admires her) kept giving her false hope. To me he played with Scarlett's feelings. And being a weak and spineless person he was, Ashley didn't have the decency to figure out his own feelings, cut Scarlett off, and finally be a good husband to Melanie.

I know I haven't jumped in the discussions since I read this book in two weeks in the summer, but I agree with E. It seemed to me like Ashley was just too spineless to hurt Scarlett's feelings more than just to tell her that he was marrying Melanie. He's constantly telling her that she's so wonderful and spirited and blah blah blah, but I felt like he was just trying to placate her and keep from causing another outburst. I think that's also why he allows Scarlett to keep him wrapped around her little finger. Personally, I think he's a creep, and Melanie deserved better.

I totally agree that Ashley was spineless in this, and that they were all just trying to tiptoe around Scarlett. She was definitely a force of nature - and one to not be ignored lightly.

And I think both Ashley and Scarlett spent the entire book pining away for something that never was, that they would never have, etc., but they didn't know it. They wanted life to be like that so badly that they just couldn't get past it.

I finished this last week and have just been kind of stewing in it for awhile, trying to come to terms with how I feel about the whole thing, the ending, and the characters and the one that I'm struggling with the most is whether I liked Scarlett. She had some shining moments, but I think is kind of an awful human being and so blind to what is going on around her, and so stubborn. Ugh!

Did anyone else become frustrated with Melly at times for her inability to see what was happening?

I was glad that Melly stood by Scarlett when she and Ashley were accused of "canoodling" because their hug was as innocent as Rhett Butler sobbing into Melly's lap. But if she had allowed Ashley to move them to the North or basically, anywhere not Georgia, he would have been removed from his temptation and able to focus on his own marriage. Melly inadvertently thwarted his ability to remove himself from the situation several times, and I always just wanted to facepalm myself.

I don't think I could ever bring myself to like Scarlett, but I liked her more than I liked Ashley!

I always thought that Melly really knew how he/she/they felt about one another. Her being such a noble, loyal, and faithful wife made it seem to me that she knew but never thought it was her right or place to speak up about it when it may have been making her husband happy.

I certainly found Melly to be naive, and that drove me crazy at times, but I'm torn as to whether she knew the depth of feeling between Scarlett and Ashley and chose to ignore it, or whether she really just didn't see it. I'm 50/50 on that one.

Did anyone else listen to the audio of this, like I did? It was the BEST audio book I've ever read, to date. I just loved it. I'm debating whether or not to read Scarlett and also Rhett Butler's People.

I listened to the audio as well, Sandra, but I don't remember who the narrator was. But she did it in a strong southern accent that just brought the characters to life. Even Scarlett's internal thoughts were so rich in accent that I could hear and envision every moment brilliantly. It was very well done.

I could never figure out a the end whether I liked Rhett or not. He's such a brute through much of the story that it's hard to reconcile that with the expressions of his former feelings at the end. He's a little too physically violent for me to entirely like him. But he's honest and straightforward... EXCEPT with Scarlett, which is what he always chastises her for! He's honest about the whole world, but never, until it's too late, openly admits TO HER that he loves her, and passionately!

Has anyone else read the sequel, Scarlett? I read it years ago, and I know it was written from Mitchell's notes but by another author. No spoilers, but after having read that book, it can change your perception of some of these characters.

It's still on my "re-read more than once" list, because it's just such a fun read every time!

I ended up giving this book 4 stars in the end.

Yes it is framed in a romanticized version of the Antebellum South. Yes some of the ideas and concepts are old-fashioned.

But the frame story about people who would just be better off if they had found a way to communicate honestly still stands the test of time in my opinion.

Most people in the book communicate clearly and honestly, the major exceptions would be Aunt Pittypat, Scarlett, Rhett, Ashley and Frank.

What makes this sorry tragic is that Scarlett just uses "arts" with men.

She is so caught up with whether she can hook a new man or not she doesn't the time to consider whether she should pursue him.

She is more focused on what having a particular man as her beau will do for her instead of considering how she actual feels about this particular person.

She will hook the beau of another woman without the slightest hint of guilt.

But these things are kind of not her fault. Scarlett does not have a well-rounded education as Ellen and Mammy’s focus was to teach Scarlett how to be lady. And while Scarlett was out there taking other women’s beaus, it seemed that no one cared enough to say something to her about it.

It seems that it was taught that if it is between her and starving it is all fair game.

This is demonstrated when Mammy knows that Scarlett is gunning for Frank and she aids Scarlett in this endeavor knowing that otherwise Frank will marry Suellen and they will all surely starve.

To this I say fair enough. Scarlett was taught to find a man who could provide for her because she was not expected to provide for herself. So I can see why she would being who she is, fight tooth and nail to get the best provider she could get.

It’s just too bad no one taught her that what she gets someone else loses. Teaching this girl empathy could have really helped her be a little less ruthless. Scarlett would be no Melly but she also may have not left India as an old-maid.

She does become independent later but only as a means to an end which is to be able to be lady again.

When she sells lumber she relies on the fact that there are social mores around being a woman and she uses this coupled with her "gumption" to get ahead.

That is a valid strategy but she exploited that advantage and burnt a lot bridges. Again a little empathy could have went a long way here.

If Ashley or Rhett had been genuine with her they could have avoided a lot of heartache.

She was not taught to evaluate someone else’s emotions as separate from what she could gain from them so if one or both had taken the time to tell her something genuine she would have responded.

She responded to Rhett when he was being serious with her and she responded to Ashley’s proclamations thinking that they were serious.

This story is tragic because there are so many opportunities for frankness in this love triangle and it just never really comes together.

One person gives up as another opens up. One person doesn’t realize what he or she has until it is late.

And none of these realizations or situations are really specific to the time and place in which this story occurs. That is why it is a classic.

Luella wrote: "I ended up giving this book 4 stars in the end.

Yes it is framed in a romanticized version of the Antebellum South. Yes some of the ideas and concepts are old-fashioned.

But the frame story abo..."

"And none of these realizations or situations are really specific to the time and place in which this story occurs. That is why it is a classic. " Luella, beautifully put. As some of you know, I'm no good with buddy reads, but I just wanted to pop in and read the final comments. Wow, lots of good thoughts here! I love this book. And I think Margaret Mitchell read "War and Peace" and thought, "Well, I can write an American version, and a better version" and for my money, she did. She avoided Tolstoy's irritating interuptions and just told the story of the American South's own "War and Peace". The similarities are stupendous, but the big one is that Pierre and Scarlett are so much alike, especially at the end, when each rebuilds his/her world.

Jen wrote: "I totally agree that Ashley was spineless in this, and that they were all just trying to tiptoe around Scarlett. She was definitely a force of nature - and one to not be ignored lightly.

And I th..."

Jen, so true. Don't we all look back at our past and think of it as it never really was. Hey, it was as hard then as it is now!