Children's Books discussion

In January (2014) we will begin to discuss old Newbery books again. We will start with the two honor books not previously shared in this club, The Railroad to Freedom: A Story of the Civil War by Hildegarde Hoyt Swift and Children of the Soil: A Story of Scandinavia by Nora Burglon.

It doesn't look like I'll be able to get Children... unless one of you can recommend it highly enough for me to decide to buy it or request it from the ILL extension, as it's not in my library system. The system does have one copy of Railroad but I'm not sure that library will ship it to mine. Neither are available at my other source for old books, project Gutenberg. So... we'll just have to see....

Many of you might have similar difficulties obtaining copies, especially in time for a January discussion. Please participate at your will & ability, in January or later. I will not close this thread as comments are always welcome.

I do have The Railroad to Freedom: A Story of the Civil War in my nightstand! It actually looks kind of interesting, even though it's old. It'll be really interesting to see if it's as condescendingly racist as many books of it's time, given that it's about, in a way, racial issues.

And when I picked it up I mentioned why I was reading it, and my library lady talked me into requesting Children of the Soil: A Story of Scandinavia from ILL, so let's hope they can indeed find a copy somewhere, soon-ish.

Have any of you found copies of either, so you can read them this coming month?

I haven't been able to find Children of the Soil, yet. I do think I have The Railroad to Freedom on my shelf. I'm looking forward to a little relaxing after the first of the year. It's been busy here!!!

I can get Children of the Soil. I'm new to these group reads; how do they work? Is there an intro thread I should read? *thanks*

No intro thread, just post your reactions right here! We're very informal.

Well, I've almost finished The Railroad to Freedom: A Story of the Civil War. The 'N' word, deep dialect, and other problems do exist, but as the author explains in an end-note, they're meant to support the authenticity of individual characters. Swift also explains to us that she's telling a story, and so this book isn't to be considered a history reference... however, she obviously did a lot of research to be as 'true' as possible. A bibliography is included.

I have no idea why it is difficult to find. It fully deserved it's honor, imo. I found it exciting, leavened with small bits of humor and lots of heart. I'm giving it four stars, despite the fact that I'm really not a big fan of historical fiction.

Which reminds me - bear in mind as you think about this book that the Am. Civil War was only a couple of generations back, at the time this was written - the author may well have, at least in her childhood, known older people who remember the war.

In so far as to whether the book is unconsciously racist despite good intentions of the author - well, I'm not sensitive or wise enough to pick up on that always. I do not, in this, that Swift speaks of the Northerners' complex attitudes. For example, she reminds us that some people thought that the slaves should be free, but still didn't feel that they were fully human.

I do recommend the book, even to casual readers, and especially to scholars.

Cheryl in CC NV wrote: "No intro thread, just post your reactions right here! We're very informal.

Well, I've almost finished The Railroad to Freedom: A Story of the Civil War. The 'N' word, deep dialect..."

I think there tends to be at least some of the "damned if you do" and "damned if you don't" mentality when it comes to especially more dated White American authors writing about African American themes and African American characters (if they did not feature any or not enough African American themes and characters this was and perhaps rightfully criticised, but on the other hand when/if they didi, they were often criticised for not getting the stories and themes "right" and being paternalistic if not racist). Of course, many of theses authors were likely paternalistic and borderline racist (or even more than borderline racist), but when they were accused of not getting the story, the themes right, that was also often because they were writing about a culture with which they were quite unfamiliar (but if they only wrote about the cultures, themes etc that they knew, if they chose not to include African American characters, storylines etc., they were then often accused of ignoring African American readers).

Thoughtful comment, Gundula, I knew I could count on you for sharing insight. I hadn't quite been able to think about the issue that thoroughly - and I think you're right.

Now, I don't know if Swift was actually ever accused of being either paternalistic or wrong. I do know the slave dialect was awfully heavy, and I didn't notice the whites talking differently from one another depending on whether they were Northern or Southern. So, despite the fact that the Newbery committee thought this worth an honor, maybe readers & librarians since then have been a little more leery....

I should do a little research - maybe tomorrow.

Cheryl in CC NV wrote: "Thoughtful comment, Gundula, I knew I could count on you for sharing insight. I hadn't quite been able to think about the issue that thoroughly - and I think you're right.

Now, I don't know if Sw..."

Personally, and perhaps also because I had to learn English as a second language and still have a bit of an accent, I generally don't like books where the author has deliberately tried to write in a dialect that is not his/her own. Much of the time the dialect sounds forced and at times, it can be and has been used to show class distinction or race distinction (and sometimes it just sounds as though the author were making fun or being judgmental, especially if the dialects seem heavier than normal, then the words sometimes almost sound like a parody).

And heavy, fake accents (and dialects) have been used at times and are still being used at times to stereotype, to poke fun, to ridicule immigrants, farmers, visible and not so visible minorities (for instance, residents of Appalachia or recent Chinese immigrants).

That's all true, unfortunately. However, I'm quite sure Swift had no such intention here. There is, for example, a Northern free negro character, who speaks standard English. I'm pretty sure dialect was meant simply as a cultural marker.

In fact, sometimes the only way we realized a minor character was Southern negro was that he or she was speaking in dialect. And it was consistent, and sounded natural and unforced.

Jeannette wrote: "I can get Children of the Soil. I'm new to these group reads; how do they work? Is there an intro thread I should read? *thanks*"

I thought I could get this book, but someone checked it out just a couple days before I went to look for it. :(

Well whoever it is should come discuss it here! ;)

I was thinking the same thing!

Just a heads-up - don't forget to locate a copy of Invincible Louisa: The Story of the Author of Little Women, by Cornelia Meigs. The author had already gotten noticed by the Newbery committee, and in February we're going to discuss this 1934 Medal Winner. It should be much easier to find than these old honor books.

Cheryl in CC NV wrote: "Just a heads-up - don't forget to locate a copy of Invincible Louisa: The Story of the Author of Little Women, by Cornelia Meigs. The author had already gotten noticed..."

It's in current print and easily available online (and you can also download it from the internet).

I even found it on the shelf at my little South Lake Tahoe library.

I have my copy, but I always seem to be behind. I'm still trying to finish Railroad to Freedom. Why does my TBR stack get higher instead of lower?

Heh. No worries, we all empathize! :)

I'll be looking for Invincible Louisa. I was sorry that I couldn't find the previous two selections.

Just to remind you all - this thread will not be closed. Should anyone ever happen to read the topic books, I'd appreciate it if they would chime in with their thoughts.

My ILL request for Children of the Soil: A Story of Scandinavia was filled! From Sam Houston State University, of all places. I hope to finish reading it before the end of the month, tho I did pick up a larger book last night and don't want to interrupt it.

I did finish reading it, and I enjoyed it very much. I've got lots to say about it, too, but that will have to wait until I get over this d* cold.

I just finished reading The Railroad to Freedom: A Story of the Civil War and liked the story very much. I learned a lot of new things about Harriet Tubman, her life and family, how she started the Underground Railroad and even fought in the Civil War. The attempt at authentic dialog really slowed me down. I think children reading this back in the 30's would have had a hard time also. Maybe they wouldn't have had even enough incentive to plow through it like I did. Comparing Newbery books then to our current time, I see a lot of difference in topics and writing style. I'm glad I read this book. It will be something that I'm proud to have read and now have on my shelf to pass along to my grandchildren.

I'm glad you found The Railroad to Freedom: A Story of the Civil War worth reading, Tricia. I agree that dialect can be difficult to read - otoh, most of us plowed through The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, and that was worse, imo.

I think that one odd bit of Tubman's story has stayed with me - I never thought before, despite learning of brothers fighting each other in gray vs blue, how North and South were adjacent. A slave from Maryland didn't have nearly so far to go as one from, say, Georgia. I mean, not to minimize the struggle of course - but to think an imaginary line could mean so much. No wonder laws were passed to make it more difficult to stay free, for example those against sheltering runaways.

Children of the Soil: A Story of Scandinavia does indeed take place, as best I can tell, in southern Sweden, near Cophenhagen. The majority of the people still live much as serfs or sharecroppers, working hard just to survive and to pay rent. But the children of this sweet mother (father went to sea and never came back) are almost miraculously loving & hard-working. And, they have a little bit of luck, because they have welcomed to their farm a Tomten.

Some bits:
"Now and then Nicolina sobbed heavily, for it takes a long time for the tears to get out of every part of the heart, after they once get in."

Mother tries to explain what she knows of old customs. One relates to Saint Lucia Day and the Yule Buck. "The reason you dress like goats and buy goats of straw at the market is in memory of Thor's goats, and the reason everyone gives you something good when you come calling in your goat masquerade is because everyone wanted to give something to Thor's goats in the old days when Scandinavia believed in Thor."

"Hilarymas, the twentieth day after Christmas, was the day when Christmas festivities were over, and certainly not until then."

"[O]ur people abandoned the old rune writing when they became Christians and therefore did not know how to read and write. When people do not read and write, their minds become more simple, and they readily believe in trolls and evil spirits, therefore the old beliefs of heathendom hung on for hundreds of years [until Sweden became Protestant]."

Cheryl in CC NV wrote: "Children of the Soil: A Story of Scandinavia does indeed take place, as best I can tell, in southern Sweden, near Cophenhagen. The majority of the people still live much as serfs or..."

Do you know wether Copenhagen (and Denmark) were part of Sweden at the time of the story? Because Copenhagen is the capital of Denmark, but this, of course, does not mean that the city might not have been part of Sweden in the past.

Sounds really interesting, wish I could get a copy of the book. Frankly, it is just ridiculous that many of the older Newbery Award fiction is so difficult, if not impossible to easily obtain. This book is not available through my ILL and on ABE books, the only copy for sale costs over $100.00 (sigh).

No, I know Copenhagen is in Denmark, it's just that on the map Malmostrand (? I forget the exact spelling of their town or district) is across a narrow bit of water from Denmark. I do know that the book talked more of Scandinavia as a whole, and I was raised to understand that Sweden, Norway, and Denmark were all part of Scandinavia. But I really don't know any of that history.

It is a d* shame that these honor winners are not available. I don't know why Project Gutenberg doesn't rescue more of them - I guess it's not always easy to track down rights. I'll have to look into that someday. They did have The Old Tobacco Shop: A True Account Of What Befell A Little Boy In Search Of Adventure, after all.

Cheryl in CC NV wrote: "No, I know Copenhagen is in Denmark, it's just that on the map Malmostrand (? I forget the exact spelling of their town or district) is across a narrow bit of water from Denmark. I do know that th..."

And for me, getting them through ILL is often not successful either because our library's ILL only covers Canada, so any US libraries are unavailable.

I looked at the map as well, and I guess because Malmö was/is so close to Copenhagen, I wondered wether the region was ever part of Denmark or vice versa.

How is your cold?

One of the problems with Project Gutenberg is likely that they mostly rely on volunteers (from an academic standpoint, all of the Newbery books should really be in current print, even if by print on demand).

I have been glancing through this book as well, because it happened to be available at my library and something about the title gave me nostalgia. On one hand it made me think of Growth of the Soil, but on the other I was wondering if it would be in the spirit of for instance the Kulla-Gulla books that I loved so much when I was growing up. Well, the settings are indeed very reminiscent of Kulla Gulla, I imagine the story may be taking place around the same period, and it describes the life of crofters, the hard working children of the country and their harsh and precarious living conditions. Somehow however, the story of the Children of the Soil, Guldklumpen and Nicolina, fatherless and all, doesn't have any of the heartbreak of the first Kulla Gulla books. Yes, they don't have much, and they do think about food a lot, especially Guldklumpen, and in between working they daydream about wonderful things they've glimpsed at the squire's. But they are so loved and so full of joy over little things, and little Guldklumpen so brave and resourceful.

At first I was a bit irked by the way the author inserts Scandinavian words into the text, despite them often having an english equivalent, seemingly only for the purpose of sounding more "outlandish". But I got over it, and the text in fact is very heartfelt, sweet and earnest. I really loved for instance the quote already cited here above about the "tears getting out of every part of the heart". I enjoyed this book, and I think even fairly young children might. The children are a bit "obsessive" in their quest to get a cow, but hey, back then a cow may have made a difference between life and death sometimes. It seems like in their minds however this is somewhat a question of social status, as they really resent being looked down upon as poor ...

It's true that Scania, the Southernmost part of Sweden was part of Denmark at some point, and they still have sort of a danish affected dialect down there. From what I could concur though, the story was taking place in Norrland somewhere (p. 6 "The waves ... brought back many kind-knacks to the rocky shore of Sweden's Norrland."), that is the northern, and maybe more rural part of Sweden.

Wow, thank you Fjóla, for your insights and explanations. I feel much more enlightened now.

(Still sick, though, tx for asking, Gundula.)

I'm glad at least one other of us was able to get the book. I agree, Gundula, that print-on-demand would seem smart.

Cheryl in CC NV wrote: "Wow, thank you Fjóla, for your insights and explanations. I feel much more enlightened now.

(Still sick, though, tx for asking, Gundula.)

I'm glad at least one other of us was able to get the bo..."

Maybe you can get some rest this weekend!!