A Clash of Kings discussion

I've been looking through the threads and I haven't seen anything about Sansa and Sandor, or for those who ship them, SanSan. Just wondering what the community on here thinks about those two!

I personally ship them.

Please, no "SanSan", no "shipping". This is an adult book, please refrain from talking like a 12-year-old (get enough of that crap in the youth section).

Moving on, this is a good topic. I do like them as a couple, and I'd like to see them end up together. But there's too much else happening. Sandor and Sansa getting together is part of my "happily ever after" scenario for the series.

Particularly with Sandor's connection (not quite enemies, not quite friends) with Arya - they'll be good as in-laws, they can keep each other honest.

But this is George R.R. Martin we're talking about. It's best not to get any hopes up.

Another thing to consider: we should consider ourselves lucky if Sansa is still alive at the end. And very happy if she's not married to a Lanister or a Bolton or somebody equally horrible.

Seriously, there are so many horrible fates in this series, I don't think I'd care even if she married Littlefinger, just because there is so much worse that could happen.

And that's probably why people don't talk about relationships much when discussing this series.

Julia wrote: "Another thing to consider: we should consider ourselves lucky if Sansa is still alive at the end.

I feel like Littlefinger is going to kill her, I have a theory that connects the Starks to their wolves. Sansa's wolf got its throat cut by Ned, her father, Littlefinger is pretending to be her father currently.

Alexis wrote: "I feel like Littlefinger is going to kill her, I have a theory that connects the..."

Hmm, I don't know about that. I think a part of her died when her wolf died. Like maybe it severed (or severely weakened) her connection to the rest of her family. She seems more alone than any of the others. At times she seemed like she was barely a Stark. Arya is on her own too, but in a wild sort of way, not a lonely way.

And Littlefinger is only pretending to be her father to the rest of the world. I think that correlation is too weak to mean anything, even symbolically. If he really was treating her like his daughter, or even allowing her to think of him like a father, then maybe. But he's just pretending. I think he's more likely to rape her than kill her (but I think that's unlikely too, he's too deliberate; doesn't do things without a reason).

Charisa, I am completely with you. Since their first scene together I've had my fingers crossed, and I'll admit I've had a quick peek on AO3 to see what fics are on offer! But, Julia has a point - our dreams are more than likely to be shot down!

There is a connection with the Starks being wolves and the Cleanges being dogs. It has been presented to GRRM that Sandor (since his sigil was a dog) was a replacement for Lady after she died. However, GRRM has stated that he did not intend for that correlation to occur.

I ship them. But it's not going to happen. The most we can hope for is that he becomes (if things go well, no spoilers) the head of her queens guard. (should she ever become queen.)

I realize this is an old thread but I just have to get my theories off my chest because none of my "book friends" have read this series. The people I have talked to about the series have only watched the HBO show and were horrified about the Red Wedding. If only they'd read the books first...sigh.

My thoughts: I have my fingers crossed that (view spoiler)[ the Hound isn't actually dead (view spoiler)[ and that he and Sansa get together. They would be good for each other.

I originally didn't like Sansa and was hoping she'd get killed off because she was such a silly little twit, but now I like her. She's starting to develop an inner strength that I think will serve her well. Arya is too much of the typical "tomboy/strong woman character" for my liking. Seriously, I feel like every author makes his female heroines run around in pants and act like a boy in order to display their "strength" and "independence".

I think people are going to underestimate her...like Tyrion says (paraphrasing): "You may outlive us all." I think she is like her mother in the way that Brienne states that she has "a woman's strength". I also think Cersei is rubbing off on her. For all her terrible faults Cersei is a strong woman in Martin's world and I think some of that ruthlessness is beginning to rub off on Sansa.

Now I've probably doomed all those characters to an untimely and gory death. Oh well. Rest assured I shall read the book first before waiting for the show to arrive on DVD. (hide spoiler)] (hide spoiler)]

Laura wrote: "I realize this is an old thread but I just have to get my theories off my chest because none of my "book friends" have read this series. The people I have talked to about the series have only watch..."

I feel the need to rebuff one of your theories...

SPOILERS: This stuff definitely happens after Clash of Kings, but I can't remember in which book.
(view spoiler)[Cersei is not rubbing off on her. That ship sailed when Joffrey had her father killed. She spends the rest of her time with them hating and trying to avoid the Lannisters. I suppose Cersei continued to have some influence on her, being the only woman in her life for a while, but she eventually leaves the Lannisters and starts becoming her own person.

Another thing, there is another thread about the Hound possibly being alive. There's a scene when Brienne visits a monastery near the place where the Hound was supposedly killed. That chapter points out a large man, covered in robes, who had taken a vow of silence. So he could be anybody. The theory is that he's the Hound, starting a new life. (hide spoiler)]

James wrote: "I feel like Sansa is the character most likely to commit suicide, probably by throwing herself out the Moon Door."

What? She is definitely not the type to kill herself. She has too many responsibilities and the one thing her father taught her is to care for her responsibilities.

Laura wrote: "I realize this is an old thread but I just have to get my theories off my chest because none of my "book friends" have read this series. The people I have talked to about the series have only watch..."

Me too. My brother and I are hoping beyond hope that he is okay.

James wrote: "I feel like Sansa is the character most likely to commit suicide, probably by throwing herself out the Moon Door."

I think Sansa is more likely to throw Littlefinger out of the Moon Door (in fact, I have my fingers crossed that she does) than herself.

I understand this idea of Sansa's suicide. Between GoT and A Clash of Kings she looked like she wanted to jump from the bridge that leads to the spiked heads. Later I realised she thought about pushing Joffrey.

So, yeah, more likely she throws Littlefinge :)

Maybe she'll cut Littlefinger's throat. But yeah, I had hopes for Sansa and Sandor becoming a couple too. But then again, I'm a romance author, so I see crazy chemistry everywhere.

Well, at least he had that quick moment with her during the battle of Blackwater. I still am sad that she didn't accept his advice.

Sansa is a stupid litle thing that cant´get her had around nothing more than a knight in shinning armour, going to rescue her in his white horse - a whiny kidd.

She and Sandor? I think that he liked her and i think that she liked him too, although for every kind thought she had for him, there were 5 other one´s that " he was so creepy/ugly/no knight/etc" kind of spoiled whatever could have came off of that.But i liked their chemistry, nonetheless.

I mean, she could have taken some of advantages off her marriage, if she used the thing in her head called brain, but no! Dear Sansa is one to be led by the nose, like a cow to the field.

Litlefinger? I think that he see´s Catelyn whenever he looks at her. and he wants somehow to possess her, controle her, make her dependent of him.

Actually, I don't think that she and he will be together. And personally I want her to work things out with Tyrion. It will give Tyrion a much deserved reward (in that she is the prize of the North and beautiful) and it will give her more character (in that she will have fallen for a dwarf, something that she initially thinks is beneath her.) And bonus, it will show that the Starks and the Lannisters can get along!

Yeah, well there's a reason for that. Aside from the fact that he's a remorseless, amoral killer, there's also the fact that he very nearly tried to rape her before fleeing Kings Landing, heading off into the wilderness and kidnapping her sister. And now they are separated by massive distances, assuming he's even still alive.

Matthew wrote: "Yeah, well there's a reason for that. Aside from the fact that he's a remorseless, amoral killer, there's also the fact that he very nearly tried to rape her before fleeing Kings Landing, heading o..."

I didn´t realize that he almost raped her....all i read was that he was waiting for her, in her room, that he was drunk and that he wanted for her to sing to him - he even proposed to take her with him, to escape all of the madness of war....and she flatly refused it: she prefered to stay under Cersei and Joffrey´s constant abuse, than take her chances with someone that clearly was protective of her and kind, whe other´s weren´t.

Maria wrote: "Matthew wrote: "Yeah, well there's a reason for that. Aside from the fact that he's a remorseless, amoral killer, there's also the fact that he very nearly tried to rape her before fleeing Kings La..."

(view spoiler)[He later tells Arya that he wishes he'd raped Sansa on that occasion, suggesting that he was at least considering it at the time. (hide spoiler)]

Wastrel wrote: "He later tells Arya that he wishes he'd raped Sansa on that occasion, suggesting that he was at least considering it at the time.

Oh, i haven´t read till this part, yet.

Maria wrote: "Wastrel wrote: "He later tells Arya that he wishes he'd raped Sansa on that occasion, suggesting that he was at least considering it at the time.

Oh, i haven´t read till this part, yet."

Sorry, I forgot that was presumably in the next book. I've spoilered my post now, you may want to do likewise with your quote. On the other hand, I think a lot of this discussion has been mentioning things from after A Clash of Kings

Maria wrote: "Matthew wrote: "Yeah, well there's a reason for that. Aside from the fact that he's a remorseless, amoral killer, there's also the fact that he very nearly tried to rape her before fleeing Kings La..."

That was what she feared at the time, yes. And consider the fact that she is deeply afraid of him on the count of him being a killer and his disfigurement. So really, her decision NOT to go with was out of fear, not stupidity.

Matthew wrote: "Yeah, well there's a reason for that. Aside from the fact that he's a remorseless, amoral killer, there's also the fact that he very nearly tried to rape her before fleeing Kings Landing, heading o..."

He didn't 'almost rape her.' He wanted to take her home, to protect her. If The Hound wanted to rape Sansa, she'd be raped.

Yeah, he just gave her a drunken sloppy kiss... and he was crying at the time, if I recall.

::Edit:: On my first read I somehow totally missed that the kiss didn't happen and Sansa falsely remembers it later. Her false memory became my own, lol. I highly recommend googling "The Unkiss" and all the crazy analyses on that interesting detail.

Iris wrote: "He didn't 'almost rape her.' He wanted to take her home, to protect her."

...that's quite different from what Sandor himself says about the incident. Again, what he actually says is:

(view spoiler)[And the little bird, your pretty sister... I took the bloody song, she never gave it. I meant to take her too. I should have. I should have fucked her bloody and ripped her heart out (hide spoiler)].

While he may be being melodramatic, and we don't know at exactly what point he decided not to rape her, I really don't see how people can see him saying that and be so certain that 'he didn't almost rape her'!

Wastrel wrote: "Sorry, I forgot that was presumably in the next book. I've spoilered my post now, you may want to do likewise with your quote. On the other hand, I think a lot of this discussion has been mentioning things from after A Clash of Kings..."

I am reading a portuguese version that has taken all of the 4 books appart and turned them in to 10, so the division, regarding the original books is a bit confusing.

You haven´t spoilered anything for me. But thanks.

Matthew wrote: "That was what she feared at the time, yes. And consider the fact that she is deeply afraid of him on the count of him being a killer and his disfigurement. So really, her decision NOT to go with was out of fear, not stupidity...."

I´m sorry but i will disagree - 1st, as someone else pointed before, if Sandor wanted to rape her, she would have been raped as soon as she got in the room; 2nd the man clearly felt a sense of protection towards her - he was kind, nice and protected her from Joff the brat every chance he had, without compromising his reputation of heartless killer.

If only she coulod get past her notion of perfectness that she had in Loras, the litle flower and see that if he meant to do her any kind of harm, he had plety of chance for it.

Maria wrote: "Matthew wrote: "That was what she feared at the time, yes. And consider the fact that she is deeply afraid of him on the count of him being a killer and his disfigurement. So really, her decision N..."

That's certainly not the way she saw it. During the entire confrontation, Sansa was petrified and sung for him out of fear. And as Wastrel has pointed out twice now, Sandor's own version of events don't confirm this benign interpretation. I find people are taking his side and perspective in this and forgetting hers, not to mention being very judgemental towards her for not going with him.

Matthew wrote: "And as Wastrel has pointed out twice now, Sandor's own version of events don't confirm this benign interpretation. I find people are taking his side and perspective in this and forgetting hers, not to mention being very judgemental towards her for not going with him. ..."

Oh, we posted at the same time - i only saw it now.

I don´t think i am being judgmental, i am just going along with the facts; and the facts are that she might have escaped a few insults, a bit more abuse and not be married to Tyrion if she escaped with him. She already knew that, by remaining in Kingslanding, that she would always be object of scorn and humiliation; by going away with him, she might have escaped all of that.

Maria wrote: "Matthew wrote: "And as Wastrel has pointed out twice now, Sandor's own version of events don't confirm this benign interpretation. I find people are taking his side and perspective in this and forg..."

This is less about facts than perception. You know things you're reading the text and know what happens. She only knew what was happening there and then and didn't have the benefit of an omniscient view. And I'm referring to your comments earlier where thou called her a "stupid little thing". I hear this often and it seems like people assume that because she been victimized that she's weak and stupid, which strikes me as a "blame the victim" for their own fate mentality.

Wastrel wrote: "Iris wrote: "He didn't 'almost rape her.' He wanted to take her home, to protect her."

...that's quite different from what Sandor himself says about the incident. Again, what he actually says is:
..."

He was just speaking angrily. Arya was trying his patience so he blurted out some harsh things that he did or could have done in his life. But I don't think he would ever have raped her.

He's a big softie. He doesn't revel in picking on the weak, he does what he needs to to survive, he follows orders but he's not socio or psychopathic.

I agree. I think he just wanted to piss Arya off. However, I think his becoming a softie where Sansa is concerned pissed him off too. And you can't deny that he often enjoyed killing. If he had ended up with Sansa I don't think he would have become a lapdog. Bloodthirst is something that never goes away. However it would be cool to see him use it for good... like slaughtering Boltons and Freys.

Matthew wrote: " And I'm referring to your comments earlier where thou called her a "stupid little thing". I hear this often and it seems like people assume that because she been victimized that she's weak and stupid, which strikes me as a "blame the victim" for their own fate mentality...."

But i stand by those comments of her being stupid! If she dug up her head from between the ears once in a while, she could have taken a chance in some (few) opportunities to aliviate her bad situation and she had some of those....Still she plays the victim role - i don´t see anyone else doing that and because of what? Her lack of judgment.

But she was still very childish when all hell broke loose, so i guess it might be her excuse.

She was being incredibly stupid at that time. If there was anyone she could have trusted to get her out of there, it was Sandor. I know she was naive and traumatized, but geez. I wanted to slap her at that moment.

And I definitely don't want her to end up with Tyrion. He deserves better.

Maria wrote: "Matthew wrote: " And I'm referring to your comments earlier where thou called her a "stupid little thing". I hear this often and it seems like people assume that because she been victimized that sh..."

And I stand by my judgment, which is that your are blaming her for her victimhood. But how was she to escape this situation as you suggest? Trusting Sandor was a non-starter since she already feared him, in part because he came to her drunk, half-crazed, and she feared being raped and murdered. And as I recall, she seized the opportunity to flee when it presented herself - with Ser Dontos. And she did so because she didn't fear this man and trusted in his good nature. Of course, it would turn out to be Petyr doing what he always does - being a scheming bastard, but it did get her out of King's Landing.

Brooklyn wrote: "She was being incredibly stupid at that time. If there was anyone she could have trusted to get her out of there, it was Sandor. I know she was naive and traumatized, but geez. I wanted to slap her..."

Same comment for you Brooklyn. How could she have trusted him to get her out? He had come to her bedchamber, he was drunk and covered in blood, and he put a dagger to her throat and demanded she sing. She was afraid at this point that he might rape and/or kill her. What about this was supposed to make her feel safe and put her trust in him?

In fact, here's the scene in its entirety. I recommend people read this again and then ask if these two should be "shipped":

Her bedchamber was black as pitch. Sansa barred the door and fumbled through the dark to the window. When she ripped back the drapes, her breath caught in her throat.
The southern sky was aswirl with glowing, shifting colors, the reflections of the great fires that burned below. Baleful green tides moved against the bellies of the clouds, and pools of orange light spread out across the heavens. The reds and yellows of common flame warred against the emeralds and jades of wildfire, each color flaring and then fading, birthing armies of short-lived shadows to die again an instant later. Green dawns gave way to orange dusks in half a heartbeat. The air itself smelled burnt, the way a soup kettle sometimes smelled if it was left on the fire too long and all the soup boiled away. Embers drifted through the night air like swarms of fireflies.
Sansa backed away from the window, retreating toward the safety of her bed. I’ll go to sleep, she told herself, and when I wake it will be a new day, and the sky will be blue again. The fighting will be done and someone will tell me whether I’m to live or die. “Lady,” she whimpered softly, wondering if she would meet her wolf again when she was dead.
Then something stirred behind her, and a hand reached out of the dark and grabbed her wrist.
Sansa opened her mouth to scream, but another hand clamped down over her face, smothering her. His fingers were rough and callused, and sticky with blood. “Little bird. I knew you’d come.” The voice was a drunken rasp.
Outside, a swirling lance of jade light spit at the stars, filling the room with green glare. She saw him for a moment, all black and green, the blood on his face dark as tar, his eyes glowing like a dog’s in the sudden glare. Then the light faded and he was only a hulking darkness in a stained white cloak.
“If you scream I’ll kill you. Believe that.” He took his hand from her mouth. Her breath was coming ragged. The Hound had a flagon of wine on her bedside table. He took a long pull. “Don’t you want to ask who’s winning the battle, little bird?”
“Who?” she said, too frightened to defy him.
The Hound laughed. “I only know who’s lost. Me.”
He is drunker than I’ve ever seen him. He was sleeping in my bed. What does he want here? “What have you lost?”
“All.” The burnt half of his face was a mask of dried blood. “Bloody dwarf. Should have killed him. Years ago.”
“He’s dead, they say.”
“Dead? No. Bugger that. I don’t want him dead.” He cast the empty flagon aside. “I want him burned. If the gods are good, they’ll burn him, but I won’t be here to see. I’m going.”
“Going?” She tried to wriggle free, but his grasp was iron.
“The little bird repeats whatever she hears. Going, yes.”
“Where will you go?”
“Away from here. Away from the fires. Go out the Iron Gate, I suppose. North somewhere, anywhere.”
“You won’t get out,” Sansa said. “The queen’s closed up Maegor’s, and the city gates are shut as well.”
“Not to me. I have the white cloak. And I have this.” He patted the pommel of his sword. “The man who tries to stop me is a dead man. Unless he’s on fire.” He laughed bitterly.
“Why did you come here?”
“You promised me a song, little bird. Have you forgotten?”
She didn’t know what he meant. She couldn’t sing for him now, here, with the sky aswirl with fire and men dying in their hundreds and their thousands. “I can’t,” she said. “Let me go, you’re scaring me.”
“Everything scares you. Look at me. Look at me.”
The blood masked the worst of his scars, but his eyes were white and wide and terrifying. The burnt corner of his mouth twitched and twitched again. Sansa could smell him; a stink of sweat and sour wine and stale vomit, and over it all the reek of blood, blood, blood.
“I could keep you safe,” he rasped. “They’re all afraid of me. No one would hurt you again, or I’d kill them.” He yanked her closer, and for a moment she thought he meant to kiss her. He was too strong to fight. She closed her eyes, wanting it to be over, but nothing happened. “Still can’t bear to look, can you?” she heard him say. He gave her arm a hard wrench, pulling her around and shoving her down onto the bed. “I’ll have that song. Florian and Jonquil, you said.” His dagger was out, poised at her throat. “Sing, little bird. Sing for your little life.”
Her throat was dry and tight with fear, and every song she had ever known had fled from her mind. Please don’t kill me, she wanted to scream, please don’t. She could feel him twisting the point, pushing it into her throat, and she almost closed her eyes again, but then she remembered. It was not the song of Florian and Jonquil, but it was a song. Her voice sounded small and thin and tremulous in her ears.


Gentle Mother, font of mercy,
save our sons from war, we pray,
stay the swords and stay the arrows,
let them know a better day.
Gentle Mother, strength of women,
help our daughters through this fray,
soothe the wrath and tame the fury,
teach us all a kinder way.


She had forgotten the other verses. When her voice trailed off, she feared he might kill her, but after a moment the Hound took the blade from her throat, never speaking.
Some instinct made her lift her hand and cup his cheek with her fingers. The room was too dark for her to see him, but she could feel the stickiness of the blood, and a wetness that was not blood. “Little bird,” he said once more, his voice raw and harsh as steel on stone. Then he rose from the bed. Sansa heard cloth ripping, followed by the softer sound of retreating footsteps.
When she crawled out of bed, long moments later, she was alone. She found his cloak on the floor, twisted up tight, the white wool stained by blood and fire. The sky outside was darker by then, with only a few pale green ghosts dancing against the stars. A chill wind was blowing, banging the shutters. Sansa was cold. She shook out the torn cloak and huddled beneath it on the floor, shivering.”

Matthew wrote: "And I stand by my judgment, which is that your are blaming her for her victimhood. But how was she to escape this situation as you suggest? Trusting Sandor was a non-starter since she already feared him, in part because he came to her drunk, half-crazed, and she feared being raped and murdered. And as I recall, she seized the opportunity to flee when it presented herself - with Ser Dontos. And she did so because she didn't fear this man and trusted in his good nature. Of course, it would turn out to be Petyr doing what he always does - being a scheming bastard, but it did get her out of King's Landing...."

Before it came to this point - trusting the Hound not to harm her - she had one or 2 opportunities that she could have taken advantage of, and she let them pass, because she trusted that, as an heiress and bride-to-be to Joff, that she was safe. But by the time that Ned Stark was dead, in front of her eyes, that she was supposed not to trust anyone - Petyr himself told her that life is not a song, on the Name Day of Joffrey - and get the hell out of Dodge.

Maria wrote: "Matthew wrote: "And I stand by my judgment, which is that your are blaming her for her victimhood. But how was she to escape this situation as you suggest? Trusting Sandor was a non-starter since s..."

Which two opportunities are you speaking of? And the scene at Joffrey's name day, are you talking about the show? Because I can't recall any such conversation happening. And you see from the scene how the Hound was menacing Sansa during the Battle of Blackwater Bay, right? She had no idea if she was even going to make it out of that alive.

i find the thought of sansa winding up with sandor for unappealing and doesn't fit with where i think her arc is going but, who knows what grrm is planning.

still, i feel like if she does wind up with him, it will be in secret, like cersei and jaime. i don't see how she would be able to openly chose to marry him as sansa stark.

Wait, I found the section you're referring to. Littlefingers speech was about her father sending the King's men out to kill Ser Gregor, and he was challenging her on her notions of chivalry and romance. Ned told her and Arya they were to leave for their safety, but Sansa didn't want to because at this point, the conspiracy had not come to a head and her father was still alive. And she still entertained notions of loving Joffrey.

Obviously, she had questionable judgment on Joffrey at this point, but this did not represent an realistic opportunity to leave. Neither her nor Arya wanted to go at this point because they didn't understand the danger and Ned never told them what it was. And once everything hit the fan and Ned was arrested and killed, it was too late.

I do not think that she was stupid. She was young. Remember, she was like 12 at the time. She didn't think of the future, and right then she was thinking of her duty to the people. She regrets not going, if that helps you forgive her for her folly.

Matthew wrote: "Wait, I found the section you're referring to. Littlefingers speech was about her father sending the King's men out to kill Ser Gregor, and he was challenging her on her notions of chivalry and ro..."

It wasn´t a realistic oppotunity for her and Arya leave because, as you so well pointed out, Ned never told them the danger that they were up against - i suspect that not even him suspect the depth of the hole that he walked in to. But Sansa made a spat and went directly to Cersei to tell that they were going to leave Kingslanding, and that she wanted to stay, so that she could stay and married Joff.

By that time, some bells should have rung in her head a long time ago, when all of the wolf and the son of the butcher thing....But yeah, maybe i may be harsh in her judgment, but in comparison to Arya, she certainly looks a bit daft - Arya understood almost instantly, when The Kingsmen tried to come for her, when she was at fencing lessons, what was going on and fled for her life.

Maria wrote: "Matthew wrote: "Wait, I found the section you're referring to. Littlefingers speech was about her father sending the King's men out to kill Ser Gregor, and he was challenging her on her notions of..."

Yes, Arya was always the smart one. Not to mention the nimble one, as she could at least slip out of the castle.

I wish Arya could see her mother and brothers and get revenge.

I think Sansa was always so concentrated in being proper and ladylike that she ignored signs and behaviours. I remember Catelyn telling Brienne that she was a lady since she was 3 years old - always aiming to please - and that about says it all...

Maria wrote: "I wish Arya could see her mother and brothers and get revenge.

I think Sansa was always so concentrated in being proper and ladylike that she ignored signs and behaviours. I remember Catelyn telli..."

Yep, she is a traditional girl with all the trappings. Had her life been normal, she would have married and been content to make babies and be a wife. But given their circumstances, she and her sister are tested to their limits. And whereas Arya has adapted by becoming a hardened killer, Sansa has relied on her ability to lie and act passive.

And I agree, this needs to end. Arya needs to get some payback and Sansa too. At the very least, it would be nice if they could find their way home and be with what family they have left.

Yep, sansa was educated to please and be the lady of the castle. Arya was always the wild cat and she adapted much better to hide and conceal her actions and identity.

Sansa´s payback would be that she would rise above the Lannisters and be able to punish them (but not Tyrion, as he´s the nicest of them all).

But that, remains to be seen, when GRRM finishes the saga.

Yes! That's what I want (and believe will) happen. Everyone thinks Sansa is stupid and useless, but being the perpetual damsel in distress is a very powerful thing in literature and film, and she'll probably make it to the end.

Iris wrote: "Yes! That's what I want (and believe will) happen. Everyone thinks Sansa is stupid and useless, but being the perpetual damsel in distress is a very powerful thing in literature and film, and she'l..."

The perception of stupidity may come from the fact that she always resorts to the "damsel in distress" kind of thing and seems that doesn´t learn much from the events around her.

I think that GRRM will have us in for a surprise - my guess? The ending will be spectacular, but not expected.

She does learn from the events around her. What she learns is that if she keeps her head down she'll get to keep it. Every time someone acted out she has seen them die. Her father, Rob, Lysa. Tyrion was locked up because of his actions. Even Joffrey died because of his actions. If I were in Sansa's shoes I'd keep my head down too. There's not much she can do.