The Robin Hobb Collection discussion

Tadaaam! Nearly time for another Robin Hobb!
Tomorrow i will be all day at my brother's place to help him move, so I might be so sneaky to start a day earlier :)

As always, whoever is done first, feel free to make the next thread!

Hanne wrote: "Tomorrow i will be all day at my brother's place to help him move, so I might be so sneaky to start a day earlier :)."

Oooh that is so sneaky of you. For shame. How could you?


Prologue - Tintaglia and Icefyre get ambushed by Chalcedeans - and then proceed to make minced meat of them. Don't mess with the dragons!

Ch1 - And we go to the throne room of the Chalcadean duke. Looks like his throne room is encircled with memory stones that had been defaced to break their magic.

Anyway - the Duke is such a Tyrant. Killing most his sons because he felt threatened by them. Then when the others dies from other causes he's left dying without an heir. Poor Duke.

Ch2 - So close yet so far. The keepers and dragons are separated from Kelsingra by the river.

And Erek and Detozi are now married. Still haven't decided which city to live in, but Reyall is in charge of the birds in Bingtown for now

Ch 3 - And it looks like Hest's father is paying Kim to spy on all the communications by bird


Ch4 - Alise and Leftrin get to travel to Kelsingra via Heeby. The place is full of memory stones.

And Rapskal nearly drowns himself in memories. He should know better - but maybe the danger is different for Elderlings?

Alise isn't ready to go back and face Hest and her family yet. She still feels the humiliation of all the people who knew about Hest's preferences.

Ch5 - I loved this chapter. Hest is spitting chips big time that Alise and Sedric haven't come back. He hates it that people thing her and Sedric have taken off together. He's getting a dose of his own medicine now.

And Hest gets a visit from a Chalcadean looking to collect on Sedric's promise. I almost felt sorry for Hest...almost.


And people are starting to notice that the messages are being tampered with. Reyall had accused Kim directly but is advised to hold tight and let the situation be handled by people with the appropriate station. There's a lot more intrigue with the bird keepers already this book.

David Sven wrote: "Oooh that is so sneaky of you. For shame. How could you?"

You guys should have said you wanted to start earlier! I'm just taken dates out of a hat, they can be changed...


Prologue - The Duke of Chalced seem to be desperate by now to actually nearly raise a war against the dragons, to get some dragon parts. It's good to have an early villain!


Ch1 - Selden :(((
We heard so little of him in the previous books, only that he was off as some kind of diplomate for the dragons. Especially the "in between shows" comment made me flinch. What are they doing to him? Some kind of circus?

Looks like Sintara has not been paying attention at all. It was a bit suspicious that none of the characters I really like went through the ringer in the previous two books. Guess it will happen now.

The worry for Seldon is if someone decides - "I wonder if dragon man parts will substitute for dragon parts for the Duke of Chalced."

I'm guessing we'll eventually find out how Seldon got captured. Probably by pirates maybe. This will be the second time he's been caught by pirates and enslaved - only the last time it was the other way round - he became a slave first and then was rescued by pirates.

David Sven wrote: "I'm guessing we'll eventually find out how Seldon got captured. Probably by pirates maybe. This will be the second time he's been caught by pirates and enslaved - only the last time it was the other way round - he became a slave first and then was rescued by pirates. "

I didn't look it up, so i might be wrong, but i believe that was Wintrow his brother, not Selden. Selden was too young to play a part in that trilogy except for at the very end with Tintaglia.

Hanne wrote: "I didn't look it up, so i might be wrong, but i believe that was Wintrow his brother, not Selden. Selden was too young to play a part in that trilogy except for at the very end with Tintaglia. "

Doh! You're right. I've mixed the two of them up.

Well I started a little early because I'm trying to fit this in where I have time.

Can't really remember what happened in which chapter, so consider this post about all five chapters.

I had been wondering what happened to Seldon. I hope we find out the details later.

Looks like the asshole bird keeper is reading messages. I really find their substory compelling.

Hest is finally getting some karmic retribution and I for one don't feel sorry for him.

The Chalcedeans are real assholes to everyone though.

Ch2 - Not liking Sintara much right now to be honest. There is this passage in this chapter where Sedric is describing Hest, and it's strikingly similar to Sintara's behaviour. Looks like many of the other keepers are feeling sorry for Thymara being stuck with the coldest, manipulative dragon too.

On the other hand, Thymara knows how to pick her dragon's pride. Imagine Sintara being one of the last dragons to fly. Imagine that her human would be able to fly before her. Tsss. More secret exercising?

So Leftrin is going back to town, likely with a lot of messages. I wonder what Hest is going to think when he hears they are both alive. Perhaps just smell money if he can manipulate Sedric or Alise into giving him some dragon parts.

ch3, 4: So the voices in the black stone (the same as Fitz heard presumably) might be memory storage. All my external hard drives are made of black stone as well i think :)

I'm loving Heeby more and more. Her game to scare a herd by diving into it, and chasing all the others in the direction of waiting dragons is fabulous.

Rob wrote: "I had been wondering what happened to Seldon. I hope we find out the details later."

Agree, but it doesn't look good for him.


David Sven wrote: "And it looks like Hest's father is paying Kim to spy on all the communications by bird"

That was not the one i was expecting to do it. Does he think his son is being held captive and hoping to discover something in the mail?

Hanne wrote: "That was not the one i was expecting to do it. Does he think his son is being held captive and hoping to discover something in the mail? "

His son? Hest? Did you mean his son's wife - or Sedric?

oof did i read that one wrong, never mind what i said.

still, why hest's father? concern for is family or just for its reputation?

I don't think his spying is specifically about trying to learn about the expedition - though that would be part of it. I think Trader Finbok's main concern is trying to get an edge on his business rivals/competitors.

I feel like the spying has to be for more than a business advantage. I have no idea what that might be though.

aha, you guys are better at looking into an opportunistic business man's brain than me! :))

i had not thought of that option! so he might be spying to see whether anyone managed to get dragon parts of this expedition perhaps?
that does sound a little more like hest's father.

Hanne wrote: "i had not thought of that option! so he might be spying to see whether anyone managed to get dragon parts of this expedition perhaps?"

That could be part of it too. But I think also he would want to know things like what his rival intends to sell his next shipment for and how flexible they are on price. Or he could be finding out information that he could use to blackmail people with to give him some sort of political advantage in general maybe?

My recollection from Tawney Man is that the wit and the skill are both derivative of the dragon bond.

That is how Titanglia was able to contact Fitz. But it's been a year since I read those.

Pretty sure. But it's been awhile.

Yeah - Tintaglia was able to intrude on Fitz's skilling sessions.

Also the last time we saw Seldon I believe was in Tawny man when he came to negotiate on Tintaglia's behalf - but that is many years past now. His recent predicament appears to be more recent.

David Sven wrote: " His recent predicament appears to be more recent."

Recently?

Recenter? lol

David Sven wrote: "Recenter? lol"

^_^

Might be better to say 'his current predicament appears to be more recent' rather than a double recent.

Would that be the recent posts or the recenter ones?

or the recentste (at least that's correct dutch :)

you guys made me laugh with the latest part of the conversation

so finally caught up to chapter 5 (are you all on holiday perhaps?)

ch5 - hest, you stupid bully! "since Sedric would no more run off with a woman than he'd develop a spine and assert himself." - you wait until you hear what Sedric is off doing.

i definitely did not feel sorry for him, not even almost. although the chalcedean messenger sure had a euphemistic way of describing what the duke was doing with the family members of his merchants.

Alex wrote: "Where was the last time we saw Seldon? You guys mentioned he showed up in the Tawny Man trilogy, but no word since then? "

As David mentioned the last time we really saw him was when he showed up in the Tawny Man at court. I believe we got some gossip that Selden was off in Bingtown and some other places to pleade for Tintaglia and afterwards the stunted dragons, but i'm not sure of that anymore.


Alex wrote: "Also, to end, note how Robin Hobb "fooled" us with the end of the last book and has now brought it down to the bleakness we're used to. Sintara's flight ended in a crash, and the Keepers are still prohibited from actually settling in Kelsingra.

yes, that was very nicely done, and really fits the idea of this being a two book series originally.

Hanne wrote: "so finally caught up to chapter 5 (are you all on holiday perhaps?)

I was, but that actually reduced my reading time.

I've also taken time off which also means less reading. Extended family and friends and socialising can be so inconvenient. Bah Humbug! That's why I started a bit early. I didn't realise however that this book is so short. It's still taking me longer to read it than I normally would.

I started early too due to concerns over reading time and desire to finish before my flight Thursday morning.

No problem at all, but i noticed. i'm still working (except for tomorrow), so 2-3 chapters a day is about the limit, and you guys really rushed ahead of me :)

Alex - It's funny you compare him to Jaime actually. I didn't like Jaime for a long time, it's only when he has his journey with Brienne that he became 'human' to me, and now he's one of my favourites too

I don't know which way Hest will go. Robin Hobb has managed to make me adore characters I previously detested, but i don't think it will go that way with Hest. (Sintara neither - her pov chapters only make me dislike her more)

I do think Hobb sometimes has a problem whereby she makes antagonists into unnecessarily one-sided people. It's quite a contrast with what she usually does. But I had a real problem at the start of this one because of it. It's not just Hest being despicable, or Sintara being infuriating. It's also the way that Kim seems to get upgraded from "uptight and a little irritating" in the previous book to "horrible and dishonest" here. But most of all, it's Chalced.

Chalced is the one big problem in Hobb's books, imo. She's always working so hard to show multiple sides to things... but then there's Chalced. If it's evil, Chalcedians do it. That seems to be the extent of the worldbuilding. And now we find... why are elderlings extinct? Because a chalcedian did it. OF COURSE.

[This also couples with the geography issue. On all the maps, "the Chalced States" seem small, smaller than a single Buck duchy or a couple of pirate isles put together. But in the text it's as though they're a vast empire (who, I note, now have a single Duke, so maybe they've been unified?)]

But the two observations I actually came here to make were about dragons.

The specific one: I laughed out loud about the dragon take-off discussion. I happen to have read a book about pterosaurs recently, who I guess are the closest the world's seen to dragons (but weirder). It always used to be thought that they took off like Heeby - running and then hopping. But it's now thought that actually they took off the way Sintara says: leaping with all fours from a standing start. So Sintara correcting Rapskal/Heeby recapitulates the scientific debate. I also seem to recall somewhere a description of how they could take off from the water that mirrors theories on marine pterosaurs. I wonder if Robin has a pterosaurologist advising her?


And the general: it only gradually dawned on me during the last book, and completely as I started this one, that Hobb's dragons are Pernese. Well, not literally, since they can't (so far as we know) teleport. And the serpent stage of growth is novel. But in other ways, they seem too Pernese for it to be a coincidence. [what sealed this for me was the descriptions of pseudo-Pernese mating flights] Like the dragons from Pern depicted in a more 'realistic', natural-history way.

Ye gods... now I'm imagine the whole of the Rainwild Chronicles as a stern Hobb lecturing some McCaffrey-obsessed teenager about what imprinting with dragons would actually be like...

That's a good observation about the dragons being Pernese - I've only read the Dragonriders of Pern - but yeah - the similarities are there.

wastrel, i also laughed so hard with the "taking off debate". perhaps sintara is right (and it seems more elegant) but then all the dragons learned to fly again by running the runway... :)

i think chalced is an interesting debate. in general though, robin hobb likes to show multiple sides from the protagonists, but i would argue that the enemy has always been pretty evil. regal, his mother, the pirates from across the sea in farseer (forgot their names), hest, and indeed chalced: they rarely have any redeeming qualities. i guess that is just how she sets up tension and emotional attachment between the reader and the books.

That's true. I just think it's a shame, because everyone who isn't "the enemy" is given a nuanced characterisation. It's one reason why I think the Liveships are underrated, because it's the one time when there isn't a dud plain villain character. Sure, Kennit's a villain, and so's Kyle, and so's the Satrap... but they're all made to seem, if not justified, then at least understandable human beings, rather than caricatures (which was my big problem with the Pale Lady in TM).

I used to give the benefit of the doubt on Chalced, due to the perspective thing. But in these chapters (and I've not read the rest of the RWC!) we finally do get to see some Chalcedians, in Chalced, and they're even worse in the flesh.
[Incidentally, you could find crusaders saying good things about (aspects of) Islamic culture. Saladin, for instance, was held up as a paragon of knightly virtue - Dante puts in him Limbo with the heroes and philosophers of antiquity, and likewise Ibn Rushd and Ibn Sina. But i get your point]

Alex: oh, Hobb is MUCH better than McCaffrey. Pern doesn't even set out to be something like this - it's enjoyable light pulpy reading, and as that it's pretty good in parts, and surprisingly interesting as a creative work, but it's not as deep or complex as Hobb's novels.

Incidentally, a possible Pern reference, or at least an amusing parallel, is the complaints sintara and other dragons make about people riding heeby. They complain that letting humans ride dragons diminishes dragons into mere horses with wings. Critics of Pern say that that's exactly what the dragons in Pern novels are: a transposition of teenage girl fantasies about pet horses into winged (and telepathically bonded) form (which is unfair to the novels, but pretty accurate about the roles of the dragons in them I think).