Flights of Fantasy discussion

Here we go....All things Pratchett related..

Discworld Series Progress:

This is the tentative schedule I have in the Bookworm Buddies group on GR, where I committed myself to attempting this series. I might increase the rate of 1/month if things go well.

Goodreads Discworld Series Page

January - The Color of Magic
February - The Light Fantastic
March - Equal Rites
April - Mort
May - Sourcery
June - Wyrd Sisters
July - Pyramids
August - Guards! Guards!
September - Eric
October - Moving Pictures
November - Reaper Man
December - Witches Abroad

I was just coming to make one. :)


Here's the series map guide, if anyone wants it: http://www.lspace.org/books/reading-o...

Great minds....

That's a great map/guide. Seems pretty updated too.

It's missing the most recent books, but it'd get you started if you wanted to do series instead of publishing order.

Yeah, and most of those you could figure out where they'd go.

Hey, they've actually got a newer one linked on the series page: http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/ori...

Cool. :)

I'm going to try for Equal Rites and Mort.

I would like to do this though I think I'd start with Equal Rites. I did earn myself as series start point this month.

Woohoo! The more we get on the Turtle's back, the better.

I'm always happy to reread Pratchett if people want to do some group/buddy reads. I've only done one read of most of his earlier stuff so would be a nice opportunity to revisit them.

If anyone needs any guidance about the various series and where they go, I'm happy to help.

It's sort of a pet peeve of mine that folk think Discworld has sub-series because of that l-space graphic, because it doesn't. It's all one series, and while different books focus on different characters, they are still interwoven, and there are books you'll have difficulty understanding all of the references in if you haven't read in order (Unseen Academicals comes to mind as a particular culprit). Reading in order is really the only way to track the technological and character advancement of the Disc, and the technological advancement becomes a bigger deal in later books.

Also, that chart has some errors. Unseen Academicals isn't a Rincewind novel at all -- he makes a tiny cameo, I can't remember if he even gets called by name -- and only the first two novels starring Tiffany Aching were YA. They switched back to adult publication (in the UK at least, and Pratchett is a British author) with Wintersmith.

All in all, I'd heartily recommend disregarding the chart, which is just an unofficial fan work with unfortunate persistence, and reading the series through as Chris is doing. Although it takes a few books to establish a truly Discworldian tone, it's a lot of fun.

I'm tempted, but I already have so much on my plate, especially if I'm going to participate in the group reads. So I may have to make this a challenge for next year, along with the classics I want to read - that'll be an interesting mix!

Pratchett, classics, and more Series (oh my!)

I can't start at Rincewald. He and his walking chest bores me to pieces. :( Only reason I read any was skipping ahead.

Aww, but the Luggage!

Rincewind gets better, but not until the books turn into more focused satire, I think. Although I'd have thought The Colour of Magic might be up your alley, MrsJ -- it's basically a parody of classic fantastical works, from Lovecraft to Howard to McCaffrey. :)

Titania wrote: "Aww, but the Luggage!

Rincewind gets better, but not until the books turn into more focused satire, I think. Although I'd have thought The Colour of Magic might be up your alley, MrsJ -- it's basi..."


I never got that far, lol. Maybe 3 chapters in? If that...

I read my first several Discworld (Discord? Stupid autocorrect) books out of order, and never suffered for it.

True Unseen Academicals isn't a Rincewind book, but it is a wizard's book. Easier to lump 'em together, I imagine.

And I'm fairly certain everyone else in the world considers all the Tiffany Aching books YA. And Amazon UK says it was published by Doubleday Children's and is listed on Random House's Children's UK site: http://www.randomhousechildrens.co.uk...

And Pratchett refers to Tiffany Aching as a Children's series: http://www.abc.net.au/rollercoaster/t...

And that's all I'm going to say on the matter.

I've got the first edition UK hardbacks right here on my shelf. The first two Tiffany Achings are published in the miniaturised YA format, same as Maurice. Wintersmith and I Shall Wear Midnight are published in the adult Discworld format. I can take photos. ;)

Go for it. The formats of the books changed here, too. Doesn't stop them being Children's or YA books. Sorry, but I'll take the author's word over your strange obsession with declassifying YA books.

Except that it does, when the change in format was introduced to indicate which Discworld,books were YA and which were not. Sorry, but I'll take the publisher's choice of formatting over your strange defensiveness about anything that is adult being classified as such.

Titania wrote: "Aww, but the Luggage!

Rincewind gets better, but not until the books turn into more focused satire, I think. Although I'd have thought The Colour of Magic might be up your alley, MrsJ -- it's basi..."

And Leiber. Don't forget Leiber. :)

Personally I love Color of Magic but I know I'm in the minority. I would say start with Equal Rites if you're unsure and come back to Rincewind after you've read a few others.

And y'know, I hate to promise and not deliver, so...

Young adult book side by side with adult book (in addition to the miniaturisation, the YA books have matte covers compared to the adult books' shiny ones, but that doesn't show up well in the photo):



Two adult books side by side:



My copies of The Wee Free Men and A Hat Full of Sky are buried under stuff my shoulder hurts too much to lift, but they are the same format as Maurice. Wintersmith is the same format as I Shall Wear Midnight, and all the other adult Discworld books.

Nienna wrote: "And Leiber. Don't forget Leiber. :)"

Good point! I love the Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser influences in Ankh-Morpork. That's something I'm happy to say continues. :)

Titania wrote: "Except that it does, when the change in format was introduced to indicate which Discworld,books were YA and which were not. Sorry, but I'll take the publisher's choice of formatting over your stran..."

Like I said, I'll stick with Sir Terry's opinion on his own books.

OMG, the book sizes changed. That means so much! Let's ignore the fact it's on the publisher's children's site and that the author called them children's books.

None of that matters! The sizes of the books changed!

Colleen wrote: "Titania wrote: "Except that it does, when the change in format was introduced to indicate which Discworld,books were YA and which were not. Sorry, but I'll take the publisher's choice of formatting..."

Good for you. I'm glad you made sure I knew about it. Though the only thing I could turn up in Google when I searched for Terry Pratchett quotes on YA was a comment from him saying that I Shall Wear Midnight is 'more adult than young adult'. Interesting...

I just found that article. It's here, for anyone interested: http://bookwitch.wordpress.com/interv...


He also discusses Wintersmith as a children's book, discusses how you can address things in children's books you can't in adults... and then says there's little difference between his children's book and adult's book, which I would generally agree with, actually.

Didn't stop Doubleday Children from publishing I Shall Wear Midnight, though.

Colleen wrote: "Didn't stop Doubleday Children from publishing I Shall Wear Midnight, though."

Didn't stop them changing the size and formatting to match their adult Discworld publications instead of keeping the hallmarks they'd developed specifically so people could distinguish the YA publications from the non-YA ones, either. Besides, I thought Sir Terry was The Final Authority?

I get the feeling you think it's impugning YA somehow when I, or anyone else, argues that an adult book is not YA. It isn't. It's not an argument that the book is too good to be YA (there's plenty of brilliant YA), or an argument that Discworld as a whole should have no YA label applied to it (you'll hear no arguments from me on Maurice or The Wee Free Men/A Hat Full of Sky -- not only was their marketing explicit, I think it was a good idea). It's purely an argument against the creeping assumption that anything that can possibly have the YA label slapped on it by fans, lacking any evidence of marketing intent, should. And that's an argument I've no intention of ceasing to make, loudly and frequently, just as I would if the consumer market collectively decided that a large swathe of another genre ought to be re-labelled in disregard of where and how it was published.

Sir Terry is the final authority. He did said it was more adult, and also that he ran it past Phillipa Dickinson to 'check the boundaries, to be on the safe side' and it seems they agreed it passed muster.

I also found another interview: http://bookwitch.wordpress.com/interv...

Sir Terry Pratchett said: “This is an unusual book because the Tiffany Aching books began as children’s books then metamorphosed into young adult books and I Shall Wear Midnight really is the last book in which Tiffany Aching could still be considered a children’s character. These days there appears to be very little difference between young adult literature and adult literature. I consider I Shall Wear Midnight to be young adult literature with the added bonus that this book doesn’t have any more bloody vampires in it.”

And it was you, in the Steelheart discussion, that kept saying the imprint mattered, and now the imprint doesn't matter, the format does. Considering the Discord books I have have gone through about three or four format changes, I don't put much emphasis in such things. I mean, heck, Harry Potter has been published with 'adult' book covers - doesn't make them adult books.

And, yes, I do think you have an issue with YA. You have said you don't, true, but you've also said you find the whole concept offensive and nannying, so, yes, I have a hard time taking you at your word that you don't see YA as lesser.

I mean, you keep saying it's not YA books you have issue with, but books not marketed as YA that get called YA, but, so far, you've gone after two series which have been called YA by their authors and publishers, and then ignored all evidence that didn't agree with you while using very selective quoting.

So, yeah.

But, honestly, I'm sure no one else cares about our little pissing matches, and I don't want to take up more space from the thread, so I'm done.

The format matters in the case of Discworld because Doubleday are the publisher for both the adult and YA Discworld novels, and they deliberately changed the format of Maurice and the first two Tiffany Aching novels in order to indicate that they were YA. That they adopted the format they'd used all along for the adult Discworld novels in publishing the latter two Tiffany Aching novels, I consider far more telling than the usual chopping and changing of formats that books get as they're re-covered and shift publishers. I find it especially telling considering that they chose to adopt the format change in more than one country, since you mentioned that your own editions changed format as well.

Much as I like Terry Pratchett, I do not consider and never have considered authors to be any kind of authority on what genre their books are. That's a publication and marketing issue. Margaret Atwood likes to insist she doesn't write science fiction. Margaret Atwood is quite, quite wrong.

Still, I was only presenting my opinion on what the books are, not forcing you to try and agree with it, until you got your knickers in a twist about the fact that I dare to express opinions on the validity of YA labelling. You said you considered Terry Pratchett the final authority on the issue, so I quoted Terry Pratchett saying that I Shall Wear Midnight was more of an adult book than a YA book, and you suddenly argued that Doubleday Children's published it anyway in direct contradiction of your previously stated opinion -- not mine -- that Pratchett's opinion was definitive. Yet it's me who's selectively quoting? I don't think so. That's all I need to see that you're more interested in disagreeing with whatever I'm saying at the time than in the consistency of your argument.

I feel I've been fairly clear and consistent in my opinions on YA, which are that I'm fine with the books -- and have a substantial collection of them which I enjoy greatly -- but find the marketing an offensive example of nanny culture. Yes, I take issue with the very term 'young adult' -- anyone old enough to be called an adult, young or otherwise, doesn't need their reading tastes monitored for vanillaness (by which I mean lack of explicit sex, violence or strong language, not lack of quality), and I prefer the days when books were children's or adult and there was no YA/MG/NA/BBQ nonsense. Do you think the books that now get called YA weren't being published then? They were and I read and enjoyed them, and continue to do so, but the labelling nonsense and the issue of who was old enough to read what were both far more controlled.

I don't recall any occasion when I've given you reason not to take me at my word, so if you can't do so on this, that's entirely your problem, not mine. Nonetheless, my word will continue to be aired, as I've as much right to it as anyone else, so if you're going to disagree for the sake of disagreeing every time you've decided that I'm insulting books I have plainly stated I have no problem with, expect plenty more pissing matches.

Umm... So, I think I might read some of them thar Discworld booksies also.

And I'm just gonna go in published order, 'cause it's easier.

That is all. O_o

*backs away slowly*

What are they even about? I feel so ignorant...

Emily wrote: "What are they even about? I feel so ignorant..."

It's ostensibly a comic fantasy series about a flat, disc-shaped world that rides atop four elephants on the back of a giant turtle, and the narrative switches between various different characters like the city guards of Ankh-Morpork (which bears a striking resemblance at times to Fritz Leiber's Lankhmar), the witches of Lancre, a rather useless wizard called Rincewind and his colleagues at the Unseen University, etc.

And for the first few books most of the humour is directed at other fantasy tropes and popular fantasy works, like the aforementioned Lovecraft, McCaffrey, Howard (there is a lot of Conan the Barbarian parody in the first couple of books), and so on.

But its real beauty lies at the point where it eases into more general social satire, because Pratchett is a comic genius when it comes to sending up everything from war to religion to petty bureaucracy to Australia... And particularly in the fact that it's biting and insightful without ever feeling mean-spirited. These are books I think I could safely recommend to people on various parts of the political spectrum, people of all sorts of faiths and none, etc. because I think they'd all find something of both value and humour in it without feeling like a target. And that's something really hard to find in a comedian.

It just takes some patience to get into it and for the books to hit that sweet spot. I'd say they're good right from the beginning, it's just that there's a gradual shift in tone where you can see he really found his voice.

Emily wrote: "What are they even about? I feel so ignorant..."

I always explain them as Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy (another favorite of mine) for fantasy. They're not exactly the same but that should give you an idea.

I'm in. Glad I'm ahead of the game for this as I probably won't be delving into Discworld this year until very late in the year. I've read twenty-one so far, but only the first thirteen if we go chronologically.

I could see Unseen Academicals being problematic, but I had read the first few titles so already had a lot of background on the wizards. Equal Rites is probably my favourite one, although Making Money is pretty high on the list as well.

I would definitely say Night Watch is my favourite. Followed closely by The Truth and Going Postal.

Personally I was a bit disappointed with Making Money. It was ok but felt a bit like Going Postal done over again but with banks.

I'll certainly be starting Diskworld this month, just not sure when.

The only thing I care about between the YA vs. 'adult' version is whether my ebook or audiobook is somehow not the same book. I can't read from books any longer. I presume my library has the 'adult' version, if there is such a difference, since it is under Fantasy and not children's.

I really need to go back to Discworld this year. I have been reading in publication order and Carpet Jugulum is up next. I adore The Luggage and Death. I got all excited when WoW put in a Luggage pet.

WoW put in a Luggage pet?! That almost makes me want to play again.

Yeah, I had to look that up!

Creepy Crate. You can scroll through the images on the top right. It has eyes & a tongue.

It also eats random critters.

D'aww. That's brilliant. I want one. :D

Finished Color of Magic tonight despite all sorts of antics by my cat trying to get me to go to bed. Loved it! Who would have thought of luggage being a heroic figure?

I always hear how Color of Magic is the weakest of the series and that always makes me a little sad because its one of my favorites. And it makes me happy to hear you enjoyed it. I love Luggage!

:-D

I'm falling behind on my own challenge/resolution. On the first book.

Not a good sign.

Though actually, I'm aiming for later January so that I can hit The Light Fantastic soon after in February. Since it's such a close sequel.

Paul wrote: "I would definitely say Night Watch is my favourite. Followed closely by The Truth and Going Postal.

Personally I was a bit disappointed with [book:Making M..."

Maybe it's appeal to me was the fact that my country changes what our currency looks like so often.

1/25: Finished The Color of Magic

Chris wrote: "1/25: Finished The Color of Magic"

So what did you think?

I liked it enough to give it 3 stars. I liked the humor and the characters, but my eyes glazed over on the digressions.

Around when do you plan on reading the next one? I have to get back to the Narnia series, but I think after I'll start on The Light Fantastic.

And it was mostly digressions! Hehe...

I agree. There was good stuff, but a lot of meandering and stuff that made no sense. I can certainly see why it gets compared to the Hitchhiders Guide.

This was actually a re-read, and I was suprised at how new it felt. That is, I only remembered a bit from the beginning and a smaller bit from the ending. Everything in between was like something I've never read before. No memory was even jogged. Hmmm.

I'll probably start the next one in the next week or so. They're intended to be read back to back, with the (view spoiler)[Rimhanger (hide spoiler)] at the end there.