The Not-So Austen Bookclub discussion

Discuss the book here!

The question to think about is:

SPOILER ALERT

Do you think Tris' sacrifice (at the end) was worth it? Or was it pointless? Explain.

Feel free to extend the discussion beyond the questions and simply talk about the book as well :D

I think Tris' death was worth it, in that it did have an effect on Chicago and started a change there.

However even though it was worth it ... it didn't feel heroic. She was doing it to save her brother. It didn't feel like she was sacrificing herself for the greater good. Although that was sort of the effect that came about afterwards.

Of course only Chicago was changed. It would take time for all of US to be fixed.

@Isabelle: I have to agree that her death was sort of airbrushed. She did it to save her brother, sure. But she didn't do it with some sort of 'higher good' in mind, which is what it later is seen to be in a way, and led to.

I think that her sacrifice also wasn't that heroic, like you said. To me, she didn't even know what the outcome would be. She didn't know her brother would die for sure. But she took her brother's place. She made a decision that resulted in her untimely death.

But was that a true sacrifice - a sacrifice that was worth it in the long run? I'm still unsure.

No her brother should've died like they planned

@Jay I guess but then it would have gone against Tris' maintality to out herself before her loved ones if it meant they'd be safe.

I think maybe Tris should have gone in place for her brother but not have died. I don't know ... I'm not sure because either alternative has problems.

@H99: Very true. Family is definitely a strong motivator for Tris. But do you think it was worth it overall?

I agree with H99. Maybe it was worth it overall, maybe not... for the rest of the world at least. For Tris? It was absolutely worth it.

Tris has such an interesting character arc. She grew up in this place that FORCED her to be selfless. It was a stifling society that led her to choose Dauntless, so she could be free. Then in Insurgent, she tries to sacrifice herself... but it's a stupid and rash decision, and she doesn't truly want to die. She only did it to escape her guilt, sort of like Caleb.

So I think her final sacrifice in Allegiant is extremely powerful. She's finally understood how to be selfless - and not because people are forcing her to be. She loves her brother, and she could never bring him to his death, even after he betrayed her. She isn't thinking about the world, she's thinking about the brother she still loves despite everything.

Her sacrifice mirrors the one her mother made to save her. Was the death of Tris's mother pointless, or not heroic? I don't think so, and I don't think Tris's was either. They're both incredibly brave people willing to die for their family.

Wow, that was long. Sorry :p

You brought tears to my eyes, actually, which is a feat in and of itself. :)

Tris Prior did not die in vain.

Booknut wrote: "@Isabelle: I have to agree that her death was sort of airbrushed. She did it to save her brother, sure. But she didn't do it with some sort of 'higher good' in mind, which is what it later is seen ..."

I definitely agree with you that Tris made a true sacrifice. Was it worth it? Let's just say that I wasn't surprised that she did save Caleb. She may have been hard-pressed to forgive the idiot for basically signing her death warrant, but after seeing him do everything in his power to repair what he could of their relationship, it's not like she would be able to keep her initial animosity towards him forever.

'Hate' is a very strong word. She may have wanted to hate him for what he did to her (or what he let happen), but she just couldn't. There was too much history between them -the familial bond- to allow a lasting feeling of 'strong dislike'. If anything, her sacrifice proved that she still loved Caleb despite him being manipulated because her family really meant something to her. It also reproves what it truly means to be Dauntless :)

Very wordy><

I cried when I read this book. I think her sacrifice was worth it. It was true to her character. Although I would have liked an alternate ending it was very heroic of her.

I agree with you, H99. One hundred percent.

Yup!!

I think it was true for her character arc - her 3 personality traits - she was supposed to be selfless, brave and intelligent - and by the end she got to show she was all three. Most writers forget the core of their characters and 'jump ship' by the end of a long series but Roth remained faithful to her characters core.

Same with Four - he was damaged but believed people could be mended and rod the zipline. It was a cool way to close the story and very adult, grown-up thing for both of them to do.

Felt bad about the ending, but it was a good one.