Reading Proust's In Search of Lost Time in 2014 discussion

Alia wrote: "**SPOILERS**

I was quite shocked that Odette ended up being the much talked about Mme. Swann with the poor reputation. I really have a hard time understanding after all he went through with her th..."

I was surprised as well, because in the last part of 'Swann in Love' it looked like Swann was beginning to accept that Odette no longer loved him.

I was a bit confused with this at the time because I thought that Proust wrote that Swann would never she her again...except once in a dream. So I thought the break was final.

Going back, I managed to find the sentence that made me think this:

And just as, before kissing Odette for the first time, he had sought to imprint upon his memory the face that for so long had been familiar before it was altered by the additional memory of their kiss, so he could have wished - in thought at least - to have been able to bid farewell, while she still existed, to the Odette who had aroused his love and jealousy, to the Odette who had caused him to suffer, and whom now he would never see again.

So, am I correct that he is saying that Swann will never see the 'Odette that he loved' ever again, though he will see Odette?

In an earlier post I said that it would be interesting to see things from Odette's p.o.v. Well, we almost get that when Swann meets Mme Cottard on the bus and we hear that Odette doesn't stop talking about Swann...but is she telling the truth?

Jonathan wrote: "So, am I correct that he is saying that Swann will never see the 'Odette that he loved' ever again, though he will see Odette? "

I took that phrase to mean that he would never see the Odette again "who had aroused his love and jealousy" - so he'd see her again, but his love and jealousy wouldn't be aroused when he did.

Jonathan wrote: "...that Odette doesn't stop talking about Swann...but is she telling the truth? "

I think we can't really tell, but I suppose Odette *could* have been defending Swann the way Mme Cottard says, for two reasons. First, it would make Odette appear faithful and valiant to 'the little nucleus' (at little cost to her). Second, in general, people whom we don't much care for when they are around to nag us, may seem way more tolerable when they are a thousand kilometers away.

I like to think Mme Cottard is not simply making the stories up from thin air.

Tor wrote: "I like to think Mme Cottard is not simply making the stories up from thin air. "

I agree really, though she's probably exaggerating a bit! I don't see how it would have made her appear faithful to the Verdurins' group by praising Swann, quite the opposite I would have thought. I just guess that the Verdurins no longer saw Swann's influence as much of a threat

I think that Odette is faithful in a way - she is, after all, a courtesan, and she's playing a role. It's not her fault that Swann now believes her to be something she isn't - (view spoiler)[ until, that is, we find out that she marries him (hide spoiler)].

Alia wrote: "I did love how Proust connected the relationships between Swann and Odette to that of the narrator and Gilberte. It really pulled together the two story lines and made for a satisfying conclusion to "Swann's Way". "

I agree. For me the narrator (as a boy) obsessing over Gilberte started to blur with Swann's obsessing over Odette. It's quite creepy the way the narrator transfers his interest from Gilberte to people-who're-connected-to-Gilberte or to objects-connected-to-Gilberte when she's no longer around.

I liked the little section at the end - the little moan that 'things aren't what they used to be' like the bit about modern women wearing hats with all sorts of fruit & flowers on their hats as compared with the simple single flower when he was a lad. It's strange but I thought it was the other way round - I picture the clothes of c1913 as being simpler than those of c1880.

I'm surprised that nobody mentioned the factor "interest"! It was after all in Odette's interest, as an aging courtesan, to hope that Swann would make her a respectable and wealthy lady.
Did they or did they not remain a part of the Verdurin's little nucleus after they were married? I do not remember, but the advantages of being madame Swann, perhaps diluted the preoccupation of remaining in the Verdurin's favors.

(view spoiler)[
I don't recall clearly either, but I think the Verdurins were Dreyfusards while Odette joined the opposite camp. Ironically after marrying a jew...

The way I remember it, Odette tried to -- and succeeded in -- using Swann to climb a step up on the social ladder, leaving the Verdurins behind to create her own salon.
(hide spoiler)]