The Pickwick Club discussion

Dickensians, fellows, literary cosmopolitans,

we may well praise Dickens and not just bury him - but also criticism, questions, favourite quotations etc, they all have their place here. That is, as long as they refer to Chapters 6-10 of BR.

Did you notice how small the world in Dickens's novels usually is? I find it very interesting that apparently Mary Rudge used to be the object of Gabriel Vardens tender aspirations once. In Chapter 6 somewhere he privately refers to her as an old "sweetheart".

A very funny scene is the session of the 'Prentice Knights with Sim as their 'noble captain'. While I was reading this chapter I silently chid Dickens for a seeming case of lack in logic, asking myself how such an obviously ludicrous and self-indulging fellow like Sim could hold such a high position among the members of a secret society. But then suddenly Dickens gave the explanation: It is partly because as a locksmith's apprentice he has the opportunity of providing them with keys that allow them to leave their masters' homes at night.

It's also very interesting that Dickens takes great pains to point out the reactionary tendencies of the 'Prentice Knights, culminating in the scathing remark,

"After illustrating the wisdom of going backward, by reference to that sagacious fish, the crab, and the not unfrequent practice of the mule and donkey, he [Sim, T.S.] described their general objects ..."

Sim has the newbie swear allegiance to the Constitution, the State and the Church, which shows that his secret society is not really a revolutionary one, but concerned with turning back the wheel of time. It's a bit like the Luddites, who opposed modernization in the production system. A very fine example of Dickens's keen awareness of the mechanics of political strife.

I've just read the description of Miggs. Hilarious. I love it!

Joy wrote: "Am I the only one needing a translator when listening to this book? I probably need to go back and re listen to the first 10 chapters, while reading along on the kindle. I get bits and pieces but m..."

Hi Joy

I have never tried to listen to a Dickens novel. I'm guessing that with the rather elaborate descriptions, wandering discussions and other Dickensian stuff it would be difficult. When reading him, we can at least easily re-wind the page or flip back a few pages or chapters to pick up and join the stray threads.

With the exception of the costumes and sets, I really don't enjoy any TV/movie adaptations of Dickens' novels (except of course, ACC.) I know that the movies/TV have to edit, but still my brain hurts watching them, even knowing who is who and what is going to happen. To me, Dickens is meant to be read. Of course, that's easy for me to say being retired and having the time.

Tristram wrote: "A very funny scene is the session of the 'Prentice Knights with Sim as their 'noble captain'. While I was reading this chapter I silently chid Dickens for a seeming case of lack in logic, asking my..."

Hi Tristram

I think your mention of the turning back of time is right on. Over and over, it seems Dickens drifts into comments about the past. One I enjoyed occurred in ch 10. Talking about the old days and The Maypole Dickens comments "But those were the old days ... they were gone ... God help the man whose heart ever changes with the world, as an old mansion when it becomes an inn!" It seems the past is always going to haunt the present.

Kate wrote: "I've just read the description of Miggs. Hilarious. I love it!"

Kate

Wouldn't it be a great comparison to ask a class to compare Romeo and Juliet's balcony scene with what happens in ch 9 with Miggs and Sim.

If they groaned too much you could suggest the students check what Freud said a key represented.

I could never have done that too openly in my school. My administration was very good, but there were limits ...

Joy,

There is an audio version in the public domain read by Mil Nicholson that is great. If that is not the one you have give it a try. She really gives individual personalities to the characters.

Many people. Many dickens fans even , can't get into BR. don't feel bad.

I laughed so much in these 5 chapters!! Sim professing his love got migs was hysterical!!

Peter wrote: "Kate wrote: "I've just read the description of Miggs. Hilarious. I love it!"

Kate

Wouldn't it be a great comparison to ask a class to compare Romeo and Juliet's balcony scene with what happens in..."

That is indeed a very fine assignment, and maybe Romeo and Juliet was somewhere in Dickens's mind.

I would be wary of Freud, though - not so much because it might shock students, or their parents and the school administration (at German schools, unless they are run by the Catholic Church, you are pretty free to discuss sexual subtexts), but because I think he is a bit one-sided and people tend to over-interpret things in a Freudian way. In my university days one of our lecturers interpreted fairy tales that way, and she said that in Hänsel and Gretel the finger Hänsel has to stick through the bars of the cage was a phallic symbol. When I pointed out that he probably had to show his finger because it might have been a little inconvenient for both parties to have him shove his head through the iron bars, this further convinced the lecturer of her interpretation since it was a clear sign that I was suppressing my sexuality. Which made me say that it was probably easier to stick your head through iron bars than to argue with Freudians.

Here in the states Freud is obsolete. He's seen as nut job with some good points and other interesting ones.

The fact the he developed cancer from smoking cigars , had to have his lower jaw removed and still could not stop smoking.

Stupid man.

Do you think it true that Freud said "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar." Maybe that was Grocho Marx ;>)

I think eve said it to Adam. LOL.

I am very curious to find out who the mysterious stranger is who attacked Edward and apparently is the same man who terrified Barnaby's mother. Very mysterious! It could easily have been written (and conceivably could have been influenced) by his friend Wilkie Collins!

... and on to minor characters.

The balcony scene with Miggs and Sim is great. I can't recall any other 19c author who develops and writes minor characters as well as Dickens. His minor characters take on a life of their own, unlike those of a Trollope, Thackeray or the other "heavy weights" of the time.

Anyone think it was because Dickens was attuned better to the lower classes or had a better eye and idea of what his readers enjoyed?

I caught the end of an interview that mentioned someone has just written a novel from the perspective of a Jane Austen novel's servants. Anyone know anything about this?

Everyman wrote: "I am very curious to find out who the mysterious stranger is who attacked Edward and apparently is the same man who terrified Barnaby's mother. Very mysterious! It could easily have been written ..."

Everyman

Dickens is great in creating suspense in Ch 6, is he not?

"It is enough that you have been by, to see this ... ask me no questions, I entreat you."

Well, by saying those words it certainly does increase the reader's hunger to ask more questions.

Peter wrote: "I caught the end of an interview that mentioned someone has just written a novel from the perspective of a Jane Austen novel's servants. Anyone know anything about this? "


I had heard nothing of this but I goggled it and this is what came up:


New book gives servants' perspective in "Pride and Prejudice"


NEW YORK Thu Feb 7, 2013 6:31pm EST


A British writer has written a book based on Jane Austen's classic novel "Pride and Prejudice" but told from the servants' point of view, its U.S. publisher said on Thursday.

In "Longbourn," which will be released later this year in the United States, writer Jo Baker focuses on a romance between the main characters, a newly arrived footman and a housemaid on the Bennet family estate.

"While 'Longbourn' brings to life a different side of the world Austen first created, I was impressed even more by the way this novel stands as a transporting, fully realized work of fiction in its own right," Diane Coglianese, an editor at publisher Alfred K. Knopf, said in a statement.

Baker describes the chaos downstairs among the Bennets' servants, the preparation for the lavish balls, the housekeeper's thoughts about the family patriarch and the tragedy of the Napoleonic wars.

Baker, who was born and lives in Lancashire, England, has written other books, including "Offcomer," and "The Mermaid's Child."

Random House Studio and Focus Features have purchased the film rights for "Longbourn." Transworld will publish the book in Britain and Random House is the Canadian publisher.

Tristram wrote: "In my university days one of our lecturers interpreted fairy tales that way

Well now I have to go find Hansel and Gretel and re-read it and with a whole different frame of mind too. :-}

Peter wrote: "Kate wrote: "I've just read the description of Miggs. Hilarious. I love it!"

Kate

Wouldn't it be a great comparison to ask a class to compare Romeo and Juliet's balcony scene with what happens in..."

Hi Peter

Well I think it would be fun to compare the two! Definitely a good example of intertexuality there, with the add element of satire.

The key thing is an interesting perspective. I think it fits in well with the small man syndrome idea. Now I've read chapters 6 - 10, I'm really hoping it doesn't work out well for him. We don't really use much Freud, but Jung is quite a favourite amongst English teachers here.

Miggs leaves me dumbfounded why she shows such interest in Sim when apparently she is so disgruntled with men that she would have them suffer by removing herself and other women in the world.

I agree with you about Dickens having an insight into the lower class. I'm sure with the position his father found himself in, it gave Dickens that experience at an influential age. Although there are some notorious characters, he mainly shows the positive characteristics of people living in the lower classes.

Joy wrote: "Am I the only one needing a translator when listening to this book? I probably need to go back and re listen to the first 10 chapters, while reading along on the kindle. I get bits and pieces but m..."

Don't give up Joy. His work is truly rewarding if you stick with it. I've only read his books, never listened to them, but I imagine it could be confusing. If you've got the time, I'd definitely try your idea of reading the text again, after hearing it.

Tristram wrote: "Peter wrote: "Kate wrote: "I've just read the description of Miggs. Hilarious. I love it!"

Kate

Wouldn't it be a great comparison to ask a class to compare Romeo and Juliet's balcony scene with w..."

LOL. That's funny Tristram. People's interpretations make me laugh. The school I teach at isn't so conservative, however, it would depend on the dynamics of the class whether I could broach the subject.

I'm really liking Gabriel. Maybe he visits the Maypole more than his wife would prefer, but then she's of "an uncertain temper" and is dull when other people are merry, so if Gabriel goes somewhere he enjoys, she apparently is unhappy about that. After all, we've never seen him over-indulge.

Basically, he seems very kind and concerned about other people. And I like the way he handled the situation with the unknown rider on the road. It could have turned ugly, but he kept things under control.

His main weakness is not recognizing how bad Sims is, and how he's abusing the skills Gabriel is teaching him. Yes, Sims is amusing in his cock-of-the-heap role in the Apprentices gang, and in his interactions with Miggs, but he's a nasty piece of work and I hope gets his comeuppance.

Meanwhile, I hope we see more of Gabriel. And of Joe.

Everyman wrote: "I am very curious to find out who the mysterious stranger is who attacked Edward and apparently is the same man who terrified Barnaby's mother. Very mysterious! It could easily have been written (and conceivably could have been influenced) by his friend Wilkie Collins! "

Hmm, I might be the only person here who considers Wilkie Collins grossly overrated, but then I also have to score some grumpy points in our competition. I read three Collins novels: The Moonstone, which I found fairly amusing, although contrived, The Woman in White and Armadale. Both last-mentioned novels were an utter bore to me because I really felt how Collins heaped word upon word just to fill pages, and how plodding and exertedly melodramatic his style was.

There is so much more to BR than this mystery, so many lively and interesting characters and so many conflicts, whereas in Armadale I thought there was a bleak emptiness except for the mystery.

So I'd say Dickens is head and shoulders above Collins ;-)

Kate wrote: "Peter wrote: "Kate wrote: "I've just read the description of Miggs. Hilarious. I love it!"

Kate

Wouldn't it be a great comparison to ask a class to compare Romeo and Juliet's balcony scene with w..."

I think there are several reasons why Miggs has developed such an interest in Sim, and nearly all of them have to do with her misandric attitude.

As the "balcony scene" :-) shows, Miggs is mainly interested in wielding power over "Simmun" - just consider her final statement in Chapter 9 - and in this way wielding power over a male person. She already does so vicariously by playing on the whims and moods of Mrs. V. and thus helping lead Mr. Varden a very difficult domestic life.

The fact that Sim is not a fully-grown man in body height might also be attractive to her since it will facilitate her exercise of power on him - or so she might think.

Last not least, she might want to cherish the triumph of getting one over on Dolly by depriving her of her suitor. The fact that Dolly might not even have noticed such a suitor, let alone have taken kindly to him, has probably not even occurred to Miggs.

The "balcony scene" is especially funny to me when Dickens describes Sim's way of leaning the apparently unconscious Miggs against the wall like an umbrella. A sight for the gods!

Peter wrote: "... and on to minor characters.

The balcony scene with Miggs and Sim is great. I can't recall any other 19c author who develops and writes minor characters as well as Dickens. His minor characte..."

I'd fully agree here: There is some special skill in how Dickens portrays his minor characters, and often they are more interesting and intriguing than his main characters. Just think of Pickwick Papers, where he introduced the character of Sam Weller when he noticed that people's interest in the adventures was waning - and of how this minor character and comical sidekick quickly developed into one of the heroes of the story.

I absolutely adore Anthony Trollope, and I think his main characters are masterfully depicted individuals with flaws and strengths, and therefore more lifelike than the average Dickens hero, let alone heroine. When it comes to describing rather ungenteel people, however, Trollope's pen quickly ran dry, and you notice that he was completely out of his element.

One wonderful quotation, by the way, is when Stagg tries to flatter Sim by calling his legs "these twin invaders of domestic peace". - Does Stagg know about Sim's infatuation with Dolly?

Another amusing quotation: "With that, and with an expression of face in which a great number of opposite ingredients, such as mischief, cunning, malice, triump and patient expectation, were all mixed up together in a kind of physiognomical punch, Miss Miggs composed herself to wait and listen, like some fair ogress who had set a trap and was watching for a nibble from a plump young traveller."

This also shows that Miggs's feelings for Simmun are not genuinely tender.

Hi Joy,

first of all, let me underline that whenever I criticize a writer as a "humbug", I do this in a Pickwickian sense, and I'm sure Everyman is fully aware of this ;-) Plus I don't think liking Dickens over Collins is a question of cleverness but simply of taste. So there's no offense meant.

Of course, Dickens was expected to write texts of a certain length for his instalments but then he does this so entertainingly - just think of his brilliant descriptions - that I rarely get bored - exception: Little Nell's death, and still more, Little Nell's life. In Collins's case, I just find his style very plodding and predictable, and he also lacks Dickens's exuberant humour.

That's just my taste :-)

Tristram wrote: "Another amusing quotation: "With that, and with an expression of face in which a great number of opposite ingredients, such as mischief, cunning, malice, triump and patient expectation, were all mi..."

Your phrase "exuberant humour" is right on the mark. Who else but Dickens could have written the quotation you give about Miggs. The description is weird, wacky and bizarre, but it is perfect.

Kim wrote: "Peter wrote: "I caught the end of an interview that mentioned someone has just written a novel from the perspective of a Jane Austen novel's servants. Anyone know anything about this? "


I had hea..."

Kim

Thanks for the information. This is the book that was spoken about on the radio. I'll check and see what the Goodread reviews are like.

Thanks for the information, as always.

Tristram wrote: "Hi Joy,

first of all, let me underline that whenever I criticize a writer as a "humbug", I do this in a Pickwickian sense, and I'm sure Everyman is fully aware of this ;-) Plus I don't think likin..."


I am absolutely sure than when it comes to a "humbug" both you and Everyman understand the term perfectly. :-}

P.S. Poor Nell

Tristram wrote: "I think there are several reasons why Miggs has developed such an interest in Sim, and nearly all of them have to do with her misandric attitude."

First of all, I had to go look up the word misandric, so you are definitely winning the contest for using the most words I've never heard before, it actually means the hatred or dislike of boys/men, and I can hardly believe there is a word for such a thing.

Anyway, I think the reason Miggs is interested in Sim even though she pretends she hates all men, is just that reason. She "pretends" she hates all men. She is one of those girls, and I've known some, who want a boyfriend, lover, husband, whatever, so badly, and know deep down inside they probably are never going to get one, so they act like the last thing they would ever want is just that, a man. However, if she could get one, any one, she would jump at the chance. In her case the only one around is Sims, if it was the milkman she saw everyday, or the grocer, whoever, she'd act the same way. Until she finally hooks someone, she'll keep hating all men.

Oh, is there also a word for the hatred of women?

Joy wrote: "I would have to disagree that Dickens is better than Collins. "

I don't think of either as better or less good. They are doing very different things. Collins was out to amuse and entertain. He did that very well, I believe, particularly since he was basically creating (or transforming from an infant into a fully functioning adult) the genre of the mystery. Dickens had a more serious purpose, seeing himself not just as an entertainer but as a social commentator.

Two quite different approaches to / purposes for writing. Both excellent at what they were doing.

Kim wrote: "I think the reason Miggs is interested in Sim even though she pretends she hates all men, is just that reason. She "pretends" she hates all men. She is one of those girls, and I've known some, who want a boyfriend, lover, husband, whatever, so badly, and know deep down inside they probably are never going to get one, so they act like the last thing they would ever want is just that, a man."

Interesting thought.

Is her misandry real or a self-defense?

Everyman wrote: "I'm really liking Gabriel. Maybe he visits the Maypole more than his wife would prefer, but then she's of "an uncertain temper" and is dull when other people are merry, so if Gabriel goes somewher..."

I'm with you there, Everyman. I like Gabriel too. He's an amiable character who I hope comes to no harm from Sim's antics.

Kim wrote: "Tristram wrote: "I think there are several reasons why Miggs has developed such an interest in Sim, and nearly all of them have to do with her misandric attitude."

First of all, I had to go look u..."

Kim, the word for a person who hates women is a misogynist. I've met plenty of those too. LOL.

Kim wrote: "Tristram wrote: "I think there are several reasons why Miggs has developed such an interest in Sim, and nearly all of them have to do with her misandric attitude."

First of all, I had to go look u..."

Being female, and having studied psychology, I agree with you Kim. I think Miggs doesn't really hate men. She pretends not to care for them because she probably can't attract them. She certainly comes across as a unique character. We only really see her interact with Gabriel Varden, other than Sim, but she doesn't see so harsh with him. However, someone who comes across as inwardly bitter could bring about some interesting scenes later on.

Tristram wrote: "One wonderful quotation, by the way, is when Stagg tries to flatter Sim by calling his legs "these twin invaders of domestic peace". - Does Stagg know about Sim's infatuation with Dolly?"

Hi Tristram. I like Stagg's commentary too. I find it amusing when as Sim finally leaves, and he is out of ears reach, Stagg ends his flattery by saying "Good luck go with you for a - conceited, bragging, empty-headed, duck-legged idiot". It's interesting how he focuses on Sim's legs.

I really hope we see more of Stagg later on down the track.

I don't know if anyone else is reading the same edition of BR as me Barnaby Rudge but in the author's preface, Dickens talks about his two pet ravens. One of which, only like the cook because it gave him food. I like finding out these little tit bits about him. It gives me a better idea of what kind of person he was and why he wrote what he did.

Also, another thing about ravens. I don't know if any of you have been to the Tower of London, but there is a long held superstition that if the ravens fly away, the monarch will fall. Nowadays their wings are clipped, so there's no chance of them leaving the tower. Being a patriotic Brit, I'm glad to hear it. LOL. However, it makes me wonder if the raven, or its actions, are going to be symbolic in this story.

Kate wrote: "I don't know if anyone else is reading the same edition of BR as me Barnaby Rudge but in the author's preface, Dickens talks about his two pet ravens. One of which, only like the coo..."

Sim's legs and the raven... Hmmm. Whenever Dickens focuses in on a physical trait, verbal cue, sound or physical object early on in a novel my bet is there will be more to come. It's fun watching Dickens drop the breadcrumbs for us readers to follow.

Kate: Is the RSPCA up in arms (or would that be better phrased in a constant flap) over the wing clipped ravens, or do they accept the ravens' symbolic role in history?

Peter wrote: "Kate wrote: "I don't know if anyone else is reading the same edition of BR as me Barnaby Rudge but in the author's preface, Dickens talks about his two pet ravens. One of which, only..."

Lol. Who knows Peter. I guess if they were monarchists, they'd be in a pickle. I wonder where the superstition started. I'll have to look that up when I have more time.

I'm just reading Anne Frank's Diary. It makes me smile that Anne's father spent much of his time in hiding, reading (and laughing with) Dickens.

Sorry, I couldn't resist, I had to look it up. :-}


The Legend of the Ravens in the Tower of London


The Legend of the Ravens in the Tower of London was instigated, in the main, to a Medieval chronicler called Geoffrey of Monmouth. The stories of many Welsh Celtic legends and Myths, and their authenticity, were raised by Geoffrey of Monmouth. In 1136 Geoffrey of Monmouth wrote a book called Historia Regum Britanniae - the History of the King's of Britain. In this book Geoffrey of Monmouth refers to an early British King called King Bran Hen of Bryneich (born c.485). The Welsh word for Raven is Bran. This ancient King of the Dark Ages was killed in a battle and requested that his head was buried, as a talisman against invasion, on Gwynfryn (the 'White Mount') where The Tower of London now stands. To this day ravens are accepted as highly important and necessary occupants of the Tower of London. Legend has it that should the ravens ever leave the Tower of London the White Tower will crumble and a great disaster shall befall England.

The Ravens in the Tower of London and King Charles II
King Charles II is believed to be the Monarch who decreed that at least six ravens should be kept at the Tower at all times to prevent disaster. The unconfirmed story of his involvement was prompted by a request from John Flamsteed (1646 - 1719), the 'astronomical observator'. The Royal Observatory was housed in the north eastern turret of the White Tower and John Flamsteed complained to King Charles II that the ravens were interfering with his observations. The King ordered their destruction but was told that if the ravens left the Tower of London that the great White Tower would fall and a terrible disaster would befall England. Not wanting to tempt fate by flouting ancient legend King Charles changed his mind and decreed that at least six ravens should be kept at the Tower at all times to prevent disaster.

Raven's Lodgings and the Ravenmaster in the Tower of London
In deference to the ancient legend and the decree of King Charles II at least six ravens are provided with Raven's Lodgings at the Tower of London. A Yeoman Warder, or Beefeater, has the specific role of Ravenmaster at the Tower and takes care of their feeding and well being. Ravens can be quite vicious birds and they only respond to the Ravenmaster. The Ravenmaster builds this relationship with the ravens as he takes the fledglings into his home and hand rears them over a period of about six weeks. Ravens live up to an average of 25 years, but have been known to reach the age of 45 years. To prevent the birds from flying away one of their wings is clipped by the Ravenmaster. This does not hurt or harm the raven in any way. Clipping their wing unbalances their flight ensuring that they don't stray too far from the Tower. Ravens are members of the crow family, Corvus, and are eaters of carrion and live mainly on dead flesh. The Raven's lodgings are located next to the Wakefield Tower and are kept at the Tower of London at the expense of the British government.

I love all the bits and pieces of history and literature that exist. England, indeed all of Europe is way ahead of us in the colonies. Of course, Europe has had more time to create them. LOL

Kim: I think you need a title for all your extra research.

Kim wrote: "Sorry, I couldn't resist, I had to look it up. :-}


The Legend of the Ravens in the Tower of London


The Legend of the Ravens in the Tower of London was instigated, in the main, to a Medieval chr..."

Thanks for that Kim. Interesting. I've never heard of King Bran Hen of Bryneich before. Unfortunately there's so much English history I don't know because our History curriculum was terrible when I was at school.

The ravens at the Tower are pretty intimidating. I remember trying to get close to them on one visit. They wouldn't have it. LOL. If anyone ever goes, make sure you do a tour with one of the Beefeaters. It's so interesting and very entertaining.

Peter wrote: "I love all the bits and pieces of history and literature that exist. England, indeed all of Europe is way ahead of us in the colonies. Of course, Europe has had more time to create them. LOL

Ki..."

I wish I'd appreciated it more when I lived in England. Having lived there up until I was 20, I took it for granted, seeing castles, towers, abbeys, etc, everyday. Although I visited many places as a child, I didn't realise how lucky I was. I must have thought that every country had history like it. I make up for it now though, whenever I go back. Reading Dickens et al also transports me back there. :)

One more thing about ravens I've been pondering, other than why anyone would want one for a pet. Ravens can talk, of course I looked it up, they mimic human speech. So they aren't going to hold a conversation about Christmas with me unless I teach it what to say. Barnaby's raven says,

'Halloa, halloa, halloa! What's the matter here! Keep up your spirits. Never say die. Bow wow wow. I'm a devil, I'm a devil, I'm a devil. Hurrah!'--And then, as if exulting in his infernal character, he began to whistle.

'I more than half believe he speaks the truth. Upon my word I do,' said Varden. 'Do you see how he looks at me, as if he knew what I was saying?'

To which the bird, balancing himself on tiptoe, as it were, and moving his body up and down in a sort of grave dance, rejoined, 'I'm a devil, I'm a devil, I'm a devil,' and flapped his wings against his sides as if he were bursting with laughter. Barnaby clapped his hands, and fairly rolled upon the ground in an ecstasy of delight.

Now, what I'm wondering is, why in the world did Barnaby, or his mother maybe, teach the bird to say, "I'm a devil", "never say die" or "bow wow wow"? I could have thought of much better things than that to teach it, especially for someone like Barnaby.

Kim wrote: "One more thing about ravens I've been pondering, other than why anyone would want one for a pet. Ravens can talk, of course I looked it up, they mimic human speech. So they aren't going to hold a..."

I was thinking the same Kim. I'm wondering if the raven is going to let something slip. I'll be listening very closely to anything else the raven might say and piecing it together to see if it does.

Do we actually know how the raven came into Barnaby's possession? Maybe somebody else taught him those more sinister phrase about his being a devil.

However, what I find really interesting and somehow unsettling is this,

"'Call him!' echoed Barnaby, sitting upright upon the floor, and staring vacantly at Gabriel, as he thrust his hair back from his face. 'But who can make him come! He calls me and makes me go where he will. He goes on before, and I follow. He's the master, and I'm the man. Is that the truth, Grip?'
The raven gave a short, comfortable, confidential kind of croak; - a most expressive croak, which seemed to say, 'You needn't let these fellows into our secrets. We understand each other. It's all right.'"

Or, to speak with Polonius: "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't."

Moving away from Grip to Mrs. Varden, I'd also like to point out that she may be another instance of what Dickens seemed to abhor especially and what he has the Ghost of Christmas Present express quite explicitly - namely that there are people who, out of pride, arrogance, or mere spite, use religion to lead their fellow-beings hard lives and to tyrannize them mightily. Mrs. Varden is definitely such a person as she tends to use religion as a tool of henpecking her husband. Another woman like that is Mrs. Snagsby in Bleak House, whose husband uses the brilliant words, "My little woman likes her religion rather sharp" (quoted from memory). Then there is the grim Mrs. Clennam in Little Dorrit, who tyrannizes her surroundings with a hand on the Bible. Even in Dickens's first novel, Mrs. Weller fell in with the evangelical minister Stiggins, thus becoming even more un-put-up-able-with. And one of the prominent hypocrites, though less tyrannical, but altogether more scheming, is Mr. Pecksniff.