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Kill Mandela
Kill Mandela
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Week 4
Adele wrote: "Chapter 56-73Welcome to the fourth and final week. A bit later than planned, I had a hectic week. And on call last night.
We've had amazing rally's of conversation. I will be sad when this read..."
Thanks, Adele. I'll post a 1st discussion point today.
Yes, I would have liked to have hung on to a few of them to carry forward into the sequel - it would make my job easier. I will be asking the group's opinion on this very matter towards the end of the week. One character in particular still haunts me, and I'm waiting to find out why. Perhaps you all could help.
Does he haunt you in a ghost-like fashion John? Is he one of the dead ones? Can you make him come back to life?Sorry. Post call pseudo hysterics...
Adele wrote: "Does he haunt you in a ghost-like fashion John? Is he one of the dead ones? Can you make him come back to life?Sorry. Post call pseudo hysterics..."
That is what I cannot decide, Adele. I do not know where the impression is coming from, but I just cannot seem to write this characters eulogy just yet. I'm not sure if it's the writer or the character that is responsible for this indecision. I do need help.
Dear group,There is a lot I would like to get through in this last week, if possible. Your input here, as it already has been, will be invaluable to me as I go forward into the second and third volumes of the trilogy.
May I say, as we enter the final week, how humbled I am to have had the priceless gift of your interest and enthusiasm for such a sustained period. You are the givers of this world, and I hope to learn from your example. Thank you.
I shall be posting a new discussion point every day for this week. Do not feel as if you have to respond to every one - choose the ones that you feel drawn to.
Discussion point 1
Is this the best Peaches could expect for himself given his start in life? Why do some people turn adversity into advantage, while others remain it's victim. Even children in the same family respond dramatically differently to the same/similar circumstances. What is your experience in this matter?
'He, Peaches Peterson, was the only survivor, and he’d start a new generation of Petersons, like that Godfather movie he saw when he was a laaitie. When he’d made enough money from the mandrax operation he would start his own gang, get himself a decent, light-skinned woman and start a family. His children would respect and obey him, and the past would be another life. But that future was dependent on the envelope in DuBois’s pocket, and Jan Kruger stood in the way of him getting it.'
This time I agree with Vickie. I don't see Peaches ever going straight, but I can imagine him playing a Dubois-like role in an SA dystopia set in the late 2010s. Or perhaps in contemporary Zimbabwe.My preference, however, would be to see Boxer and York display questionable sides of their characters. I suspect they've both started in that direction, they seemed gleeful at appropriating blood money. They are likely power-holders in the future regime. Never doubt the truth that power corrupts.
Now I have to shut up and finish the book.
How did I know that this was going to end on a cliffhanger? Things are going in the right direction, but we (or should I say Mandela?) aren’t in the clear yet. This section really demonstrates the depth and truth of the characters. I think that Peaches is still alive, and I do have some sympathy for him, particularly after reading the story of his childhood. Surprisingly, I don’t feel that Peaches is racially-motivated, at least not in the traditional sense. He just wants a better life for himself and for the family that he wants someday, and he sees the privileged whites as standing in his way: “He didn’t hate him because he was white. Peaches hated Jan Kruger because he used that whiteness as a weapon. The Dutchman made him feel like a stray dog, begging for scraps from the white man’s table” (chapter 59). He unabashedly sides with whomever is in power. Perhaps in the sequel we will some kind of change in him, good or bad.I noticed a reversion back to the first-person with Jan at the end. Is this what you were talking about, John, or did I miss the other first-person section? I have bad feelings about Jan; he is too fervent and set in his ways to change much, I fear, and to have a happy future: “His enemy had smiled at him, and he, Jan Kruger, had once again failed to pull the trigger” (chapter 72). Despite all that he has found out about the Jarrards, he does not let this shift his perception, and he is ultimately motivated by revenge and survivor’s guilt: “Yet, despite the confusion in his head, there was one thing Jan was sure of in his heart. The guilt. It ran like a thread through his being, unravelling his soul, and it led back to Jack’s face. His life was an empty lie while it was there, a lie that he knew he couldn’t live for long with. His anger had allowed him to survive the pain for all these years, but now this guilt had stolen it away from him. After what he’d done, he no longer had any right to find refuge in anger” (chapter 62). Interestingly, both his and York’s dream feature Mandela; in York’s daydream, Mandela appears as a friendly Giant, while in Jan’s he appears as a savior of sorts who shoulders his burden. Perhaps, after all, there is some hope for Jan if he can learn to leave behind his guilt and anger and embrace the coming changes?
Two characters who are forward-looking and who embody the hope of a brighter future are, naturally, York and Boxer. In these final chapters, they confront the vestiges of their past and make a conscious decision to move forward: “They were learning—young men whose place it was to inherit all the bitterness of the world, or to surmount it” (chapter 65). Together they symbolize Mandela’s dream of unity and equality between blacks and whites. I love how both Boxer’s and York’s struggle are compared to features of the land itself: “His climb with York tomorrow would be more than just getting to the top of a high place. It would be about overcoming generations of prejudice and reviving a love for the mountain, which, he was sure, the Cape’s first people must have felt when their cattle roamed its flanks” (chapter 57). Boxer is wise beyond his years, and I hope that he and York continue to work together because, as Boxer so poignantly says, “My friend, at some point the killing has to stop and the healing has to start…Killing doesn’t bring happiness, no matter how bad the person is” (chapter 58). This profound statement has proven to be true with the murder of Jan’s parents, Alpheus’s murder, Jack’s murder, DuBois’s and Peaches’s murders (or attempted murder, as I suspect in the case of Peaches)…if only Jan could learn this!
York has come a long way, thanks to his father, Boxer, and his own malleability. He is learning that anger is not a good or sustainable answer, and that he needs to take a stand on the issues facing his country instead of turning a blind eye or ignoring them. He realizes that he is perhaps his own worst enemy and that he must face this first of all: “He was secretly proud of Boxer for facing his fear, and he reflected on his own. What, in particular, was it? ‘Myself,’ he thought. That’s what he’d been most afraid to face: his deeply buried need for intimacy, a need only exceeded by his fear of showing it. It had crippled him for so long, but he’d faced it, and Jemaine had been his reward. She’d been kind to him, understanding his fear and helping him to deal with it one step at a time, and York realised that he had to do the same for Boxer” (chapter 57). And “Defending Jack’s honour was just a pretext. —York knew full well now that he had wanted to hurt Ricardo for himself, and himself alone. He wanted to transfer onto someone else the beast of pain and rage and weakness that he carried inside, that kept him a prisoner. He had thought that would free him. But it hadn’t” (chapter 73). He seems to be traveling in the right direction, with Boxer at his side, when he chooses not to shoot Jan, and his words to Boxer made me smile: “‘Leave him!’ He rapped out to Boxer. ‘Come on! The future’s over there. Leave him here, to his past’” (chapter 73). I do wish that they had taken Jan’s Walther, and that Jan too could move beyond his past, and I wonder what will become of him and of Kobus, who has shifted to the back of the character crowd. I’m ready for the sequel!
Vicki wrote: "You have to have a strong constitution if you're going to come out of places like this with a different mindset. Yet people do it.For Peaches however he understands power and he wants it for hims..."
Vicki,
Yes, it does depend on how you look at it. To Peaches, he has not failed or been beaten by his circumstances - he has overcome them by not only surviving but turning them to his advantage. The ultimate survivor/predator.
Dave wrote: "This time I agree with Vickie. I don't see Peaches ever going straight, but I can imagine him playing a Dubois-like role in an SA dystopia set in the late 2010s. Or perhaps in contemporary Zimbabwe..."Thanks, Dave. Some provocative ideas for the sequels - noted.
Sarah wrote: "How did I know that this was going to end on a cliffhanger? Things are going in the right direction, but we (or should I say Mandela?) aren’t in the clear yet. This section really demonstrates the ..."Sarah,
Exam time again for me. Your magnifying glass has, once again, revealed some of the fine print in this story and its characters.
So you expected a cliffhanger ending? I didn't. It was always my intention to wrap this 1st volume up into a neat and satisfying package, just like in the movies. I wanted a happy, or at least a positive, ending - the conflict could begin again with a fresh start in the sequel. I wrote such an ending, but two months before publication I listened to my characters: they were telling me that I was lying about them. It was a difficult decision to chop three chapters off the end and rewrite them at that late stage, but I am grateful I did. In some way, that was the moment I became a writer.
Can you really believe Peaches survived such a fall? Divine intervention, it must be. For what purpose? I am intrigued and hungry to know - perhaps Peaches is trying to reach me through my readers? Has he still something to do - but it would have to be something important enough for me to invoke the Almighty's assistance.
Thank you for quoting Peaches's thoughts on Jan Kruger's whiteness. These are a few of the lines I am most proud of in the book.
Yes, Jan was my main disappointment at the end. I was sad to know that he was not ready to heal, despite being forgiven by Jack and reprieved by York. Is he so blind that he cannot see the road that has at last opened for him. York sees this, and is disgusted; so am I. I do not know if there is hope for him, but the sequel will tell. Either way, I don't think he's reached the bottom yet.
Yes, I reverted back to the 1st person in that final paragraph for dramatic effect. I wasn't clear in my earlier communication with you: I was referring to the use of the perfect present tense, and not the 1st person. Whenever Peaches is on his own I use the present tense - to make Peaches a more immediate and menacing character.
I did feel bad about using Kobus as a prop in Kill Mandela, with little scope for development as a character. I couldn't find any depth in him, but I am sure it must be there with parents like Jan and Almare. He does move forward in the sequel, I can tell you, and I am looking forward to seeing what it is he has been hiding. Good or bad? You guess. I know. I'm not telling.
Thanks, Sarah, for yet another enjoyable summary of the highlights of the closing action in the story. I too am busting to find out what the sequel has in store for everyone. I've had a glimpse already as I have worked on the outline, and I can tell you it's harrowing. Sorry.
Dave wrote: "This time I agree with Vickie. I don't see Peaches ever going straight, but I can imagine him playing a Dubois-like role in an SA dystopia set in the late 2010s. Or perhaps in contemporary Zimbabwe..."Dave, yes, get finished and come back asap. I look forward to your input on the ending.
John wrote: "So you expected a cliffhanger ending? I didn't. It was always my intention to wrap this 1st volume up into a neat and satisfying package, just like in the movies. I wanted a happy, or at least a positive, ending - the conflict could begin again with a fresh start in the sequel. I wrote such an ending, but two months before publication I listened to my characters: they were telling me that I was lying about them. It was a difficult decision to chop three chapters off the end and rewrite them at that late stage, but I am grateful I did. In some way, that was the moment I became a writer."I didn't necessarily expect a cliffhanger right off the bat, but as I read the novel, I just had the feeling that it was going to have a cliffhanger ending of sorts, by the way it was reading. That isn't a bad thing at all--it just makes me want to read book 2 right away! ;-)
Something just tells me that Peaches isn't dead. Perhaps he is still needed to offset/conflict with Jan. I'm not sure what purpose he will serve, but I don't feel that he's gone. Regarding Jan, I don't think he's reached rock bottom yet either. I also haven't decided whether I think he is going to be able to come to terms with himself or his past or not.
I am curious about Kobus. Glad to hear that he is coming back in the sequel. I don't know why he intrigues me a bit, but he does. :-) I didn't feel that he was neglected per se; he just didn't have a role in the action of the first book, and as far as I'm concerned that's fine. It will be interesting to see what becomes of him!
John wrote: "Sarah wrote: "I've had a glimpse already as I have worked on the outline, and I can tell you it's harrowing. Sorry."Oh boy. Should I prepare to pull my hair out in agony or suspense? Perhaps I should invest in a wig now...
John wrote: "Yes, I reverted back to the 1st person in that final paragraph for dramatic effect. I wasn't clear in my earlier communication with you: I was referring to the use of the perfect present tense, and not the 1st person. Whenever Peaches is on his own I use the present tense - to make Peaches a more immediate and menacing character."Gotcha. Sorry, I misunderstood. Mea culpa. Hmmm...so if Peaches makes a comeback, I wonder if he will still be in the present tense for the narration...
Sarah wrote: "John wrote: "So you expected a cliffhanger ending? I didn't. It was always my intention to wrap this 1st volume up into a neat and satisfying package, just like in the movies. I wanted a happy, or ..."Yes - I feel the pressure.
Sarah wrote: "John wrote: "Sarah wrote: "I've had a glimpse already as I have worked on the outline, and I can tell you it's harrowing. Sorry."Oh boy. Should I prepare to pull my hair out in agony or suspense?..."
It's going to be both - you'd best make it one of those huge frizzy afro wigs.
Sarah wrote: "John wrote: "Yes, I reverted back to the 1st person in that final paragraph for dramatic effect. I wasn't clear in my earlier communication with you: I was referring to the use of the perfect prese..."If he is still alive, I shall have to promote him in the character rankings, and perfect present tense is not suitable to get inside his head and heart.
Mod
I'm bothered by York and Boxer's delight in the blood money.
John, please don't divert too much from historical fiction:-(
Lisa wrote: "Peaches is likely a product of both his genetics and his environment. His 'better life' is merely a refined form of violence which is common for a guy like this. I didn't find him fascinating. He's..."Lisa, your concerns and observations are noted, with thanks. Dave was also uncomfortable with the blood money - I'm surprised at this, given that the blood spilt was Alpheus's and Jack's. Surely it is better in the son's pockets than in their murderers?
John wrote: "It's going to be both - you'd best make it one of those huge frizzy afro wigs. "An orange one, of course!
Mod
I'm worried about the slippery slope phenomenon. It's ok to steal from the man who killed your father... It's okay to steal from dangerous criminals... It's ok to steal from all criminals...it's okay to steal from people who look like criminals...I'm so good at stealing, I can steal from anyone.
It's not and never will be adequate compensation, it may make their lives easier but at what moral cost?
Lisa wrote: "I'm worried about the slippery slope phenomenon. It's ok to steal from the man who killed your father... It's okay to steal from dangerous criminals... It's ok to steal from all criminals...it's okay to steal from people who look like criminals...I'm so good at stealing, I can steal from anyone.It's not and never will be adequate compensation, it may make their lives easier but at what moral cost?
I wasn't terribly comfortable with York's taking of the money from the body of Du Bois either, although somehow Boxer's taking the money from Peaches didn't bother me. Can't say why, exactly. Perhaps it was that it was payback - It was Peaches' comeuppance. He lost his reward for Alpheus' murder. The situation was a little different with Du Bois, since he was already dead.
There is another thing - ramifications. If York had been seen, he would have been implicated in Du Bois' death. It wouldn't look good to be caught taking large sums of money from the body of a government agent. The boys need to be careful with that money - it still could raise eyebrows and draw the suspicion of the police. When they look into Du Bois' fatal fall, they won't think of him as a bad guy, but as a mid- to high-level government official.
Vicki wrote: "I absolutely wanted the sons to have it, but is it adequate compensation? Definitely not, it can never be over! I predict that John is going to move us into the future some."Your predictions have been pretty accurate up to now, Vicki.
Sarah wrote: "John wrote: "It's going to be both - you'd best make it one of those huge frizzy afro wigs. "An orange one, of course!"
Orange, of course. You and Peaches would have made a pretty pair, Sarah.
Lisa wrote: "John wrote: "Lisa wrote: "Peaches is likely a product of both his genetics and his environment. His 'better life' is merely a refined form of violence which is common for a guy like this. I didn't..."Can't argue with that, Lisa, except to say that I give my word neither of the boys will ever steal another cent. I'll make sure of that. Okay?
Buck wrote: "Lisa wrote: "I'm worried about the slippery slope phenomenon. It's ok to steal from the man who killed your father... It's okay to steal from dangerous criminals... It's ok to steal from all crimi..."Buck wrote: "Lisa wrote: "I'm worried about the slippery slope phenomenon. It's ok to steal from the man who killed your father... It's okay to steal from dangerous criminals... It's ok to steal from all crimi..."
Buck, thanks for adding your voice to the money issue. It has been an education for me as the author to see the high standards that readers demand of their protagonists, and how subjective that can be. Boxer gets away with killing Chips in the holding cells, but is taken to task over the money. York isn't criticised for breaking Ricardo's ribs or trying to shoot Jan Kruger while hiding under the stairs, but the money... Morality is such a complex thing, and I shall be more aware of this in future.
Your concern about York being seen taking the money from Du Bois's body is a valid one. Do you remember a group of hikers approaching as York swings off the ledge where Du Bois's body is lying? Could be a problem for York in the sequel...
John wrote: "Buck, thanks for adding your voice to the money issue. It has been an education for me as the author to see the high standards that readers demand of their protagonists, and how subjective that can be. Boxer gets away with killing Chips in the holding cells, but is taken to task over the money. York isn't criticised for breaking Ricardo's ribs or trying to shoot Jan Kruger while hiding under the stairs, but the money... "Subjective, perhaps, but not unreasoned. It wasn't Boxer's intent to kill Chips. It was the inadvertent result of Boxer preventing Chips from raping him. Troy's hit on Ricardo was a personal foul (an American football term) of one rugby player to another. Certainly not the most sportsmanlike thing to do, but I think the broken ribs were an unintended consequence. Troy squeezed the trigger, compelled by fear and desperation at being discovered by the villain who murdered his father. It was a shocking thing to do, but there were no consequences. He was saved by the safety and we were relieved. He got a free ride. None of these things were like the wanton random murder committed by Andile, a heinous crime with no money motive.
John wrote: "Can't argue with that, Lisa, except to say that I give my word neither of the boys will ever steal another cent. I'll make sure of that. Okay?"I'm glad that our protagonists aren't going to devolve into a life of crime.
John wrote: "Orange, of course. You and Peaches would have made a pretty pair, Sarah."I think that Peaches is trying to trigger my dark side. *Mwahaha* Perhaps I'll change my name to Cream. Peaches and Cream has a nice ring to it, don't you think?
John, never say never, especially if you take Lisa's advice and stay fairly close to subsequent history. We all know that Boxer is attracted to money and he's going to be politician, and he seems to be particularlr bright. I don't know much about post-Apartheid politics, but I that corruption has been a notable feature, probably in reality and certainly in perception.
Sorry, that one got away from me. I meant to add that Boxer has been a pretty one-dimensional character up to now. It would be interesting to see how his moral scruples would react if he got an education in finance and went to work as an aide (dare I say bagman) to the ANC's Apartheid era intelligence chief.
Buck wrote: "John wrote: "Buck, thanks for adding your voice to the money issue. It has been an education for me as the author to see the high standards that readers demand of their protagonists, and how subjec..."You make a good case, Buck. All points taken.
Sarah wrote: "John wrote: "Orange, of course. You and Peaches would have made a pretty pair, Sarah."I think that Peaches is trying to trigger my dark side. *Mwahaha* Perhaps I'll change my name to Cream. Peach..."
Tell us more about this dark side, Sarah?
'Peaches and Cream' - even better than 'Bonny and Clyde'. You've got to write a gangster novel of that title, Sarah.
Sarah wrote: "John wrote: "Can't argue with that, Lisa, except to say that I give my word neither of the boys will ever steal another cent. I'll make sure of that. Okay?"I'm glad that our protagonists aren't g..."
Smile.
Dave wrote: "Sorry, that one got away from me. I meant to add that Boxer has been a pretty one-dimensional character up to now. It would be interesting to see how his moral scruples would react if he got an edu..."Dave,
The scenario you have posited for Boxer is a very real one, given the long list of supposedly noble freedom fighters who fell foul of temptation once in government.
This is a repetitive phenomena that disturbs me to the core. Why does this happen, and why is it the rule, rather than the exception? Are the noble causes that men (not women) fight for merely an excuse to grasp power and use it to their own advantage? Perhaps this is why the world has made a saint of Mandela - he continued to embrace the higher purpose once in power. I hope the same is true for Boxer.
Hi John, wow, book's discussion turns out a huge success. I haven't finished with this one yet, as I have deadlines with some other novels. Of what I've read, I'm glad someone had the guts to write something like this. Your perspective on what's going on in South Africa has been portrayed beautiful through your characters. I hope that this will win an award or something.
Week 4 Discussion Point 2:Is forgiveness a possibility for Jan? Is there the hope of mercy for him given his crime? Can you, as the reader, forgive him?
'He had to get away and be alone. He had to go out into the wilderness to confront the devil. He had to speak to Ma and Pa, ask them what he should do, ask them if it was time …. He missed them so much … so much.
Jan dropped to his knees in front of the safe and fell forward, as if he’d taken a punch to the gut. He buried his face between his thighs and hugged his legs. He didn’t cry – he couldn’t find the tears for the pain he felt. Instead, he released a high-pitched moan into the darkness between his legs, like an animal caught in a trap.'
'Jan’s eyes stayed dry as he prayed aloud, his voice strong and direct.
‘O God, you say that vengeance is yours, but what have you done? Are you there? Who is it that speaks to my heart, but forsakes me when I answer? I followed the signs, but they have led me to the edge of the pit. What am I to do? Speak to me, my God! Help me to understand! Give me peace, or give me to the Devil!’
Week 4 Discussion Point 3:How do you feel about Boxer's sudden insight into the difference between his world and York's? Was York being insensitive, albeit naively? Can the two worlds merge?
‘Do you think you’ll ever go back?’ York asked, out of the blue.
‘To Crossroads?’ Boxer stared at York. ‘Why not? It’s my home. I grew up there. It’s only Andile – if I can sort him out, it’ll be fine.’
‘Fine? That’s not what I saw. And a shack’s not much protection against Andile, as well. ‘You know that you’re welcome to stay here. We can make better sleeping arrangements.’
‘Thank you, but it’s not possible.’ Boxer’s voice was stiff. Did York think that Crossroads wasn’t good enough? Why should York’s world be the one that mostly counts? And what if York’s neighbours objected?
With a sudden rush of mixed feelings, he realised how far he’d moved out of his own world – the white family with its London connections, the hired car, the day on the hotel deck, the ease with which these people made their arrangements. What’s it all about? York’s father’s vision of a world without black and white? My father’s fight for the rights of our own people? What is the reality? What are we fighting for? In this complicated mood, Boxer felt that he’d sooner go back on his own to the shack to get his stuff. But, silently, he followed York downstairs to the Hawa, and clipped on his helmet, and took his place on the pillion. ‘London! It’s easy for them!’ He was taken aback at the sudden flood of bitterness. ‘Richard can get York a bursary – he’ll be gone to England. It’s not my world at all!’ He rode behind York in a dull silence, pondering these new thoughts, trying to push them out of his mind.'
Week 4 Discussion Point 4:Do you think that if York had not forced him to give in, Boxer would have been capable of shooting Andile?
What role does honour play in black culture? What does this tell us about Boxer?
'Through his shaken mind, Boxer heard York’s question, and he swung around. ‘It’s Andile! That message says “traitor”. I’ve got to find him! I’ll fix him! We can’t bury my father until I settle with Andile. The shack is nothing - he’s destroyed our name!’
‘How’ll you do that?’ asked York.
‘I’ll force him to confess! To his father, to an elder. I’ll make him admit that he’s telling lies about us! Accusing us of being impimpis!’
‘How?’
‘This is how!’ He held up Jan Kruger’s pistol. He went across to where York stood, astride the bike. He turned his back on York while he bent over the pistol, examining it. He checked the magazine, cocked the weapon, and slipped it into his pocket. Without raising his head, he said over his shoulder to York:
‘I’ll meet you back at your place.’
This is one of the reasons I love your book. It makes you think, put us as the reader in your character's shoes, would we do the same if we are in the same situation. Forgiveness is hard for all of us, if it was easy to forgive Jesus wouldn't have had so many lessons given to us in the Bible. It's mostly one of the hardest things to do, but with God, he could forgive. Just want to share that.
Dear Group,As I previously indicated, feel free to choose whichever point you would like to respond to. I shall post the final points later on in the week.
Adrienne wrote: "Hi John, wow, book's discussion turns out a huge success. I haven't finished with this one yet, as I have deadlines with some other novels. Of what I've read, I'm glad someone had the guts to write..."Thank you, Adrienne. I regret that we were deprived the benefit of your insights throughout the discussion.
Adrienne wrote: "This is one of the reasons I love your book. It makes you think, put us as the reader in your character's shoes, would we do the same if we are in the same situation. Forgiveness is hard for all of..."Adrienne,
Discussion Point 2 seems to speak directly to your comment. Your insight here would be welcome.
Vicki wrote: "First, you're touching on classism here.Second, Honor? We're back to an eye for an eye. Boxer has more underlying issues than previously known and so does York."
Oh yes, Vicki. They are complicated protagonists, (like Ariel) and that is what I love about them. They surprise me, often. I have to be careful with them - they let me down, sometimes.
John, I'll give all of my insight when I'm done with Kill Mandela. I'm sure this threats won't be locked and I'll participate after. Even though it will no longer be in discussion. My time is limit at the moment and I would've loved to participate with the others this month but I just don't have the time to finish this one yet. I will however tell you exactly my thoughts etc once I'm done. Promise.
Adrienne wrote: "John, I'll give all of my insight when I'm done with Kill Mandela. I'm sure this threats won't be locked and I'll participate after. Even though it will no longer be in discussion. My time is limit..."Great. I look forward to that, Adrienne.
/John wrote: ... neither of the boys will ever steal another cent./ I guess Boxer's not going into politics after all.
Dave wrote: "/John wrote: ... neither of the boys will ever steal another cent./ I guess Boxer's not going into politics after all."
Dave,
Are US politicians regularly in corruption scandals? Is it a problem, or an exception? Or are they just smarter at hiding it?
If you get elected to our local county commission, chances are you'll be going to jail before your term is over.The United States congress is held in about the same esteem as hemorrhoids.
Politicians, if not corrupt, are at least disingenuous.
Welcome to the fourth and final week. A bit later than planned, I had a hectic week. And on call last night.
We've had amazing rally's of conversation. I will be sad when this read is over. Very curious how John plans to write a sequel with all of his characters dying...