Indie Book Club discussion

I'm an indie author who just had a book published recently, The Supreme Moment, in both paperback and ebook format. I was ecstatic when the reviews from both ARC readers and paying readers started to come in on Amazon, but after a couple of weeks, all but one review had been removed (I had over a dozen). They weren't removed all at once, but staggered throughout a couple of days. When I asked Amazon's customer support about it, all they could tell me was the reviews had violated their TOS and refused to tell me why. As an indie author, reviews are our lifeline so it was a pretty big blow. I had planned on doing a promotion through Bookbub, but now I don't have anywhere near enough reviews for them to even consider my book and wonder if I ever will if they keep removing reviews like that. Anyone else had problems with this? Thoughts?

The same thing happened to a friend of mine. He said all the reviews that were removed were ones in which he gave gift cards to. Did you pay anyone to review your book?

No, they were given away in exchange for a review. Plus there were 4 from people that were just amazon customers that I had no connection to. The one review that was left was an ARC review.

Hmm. Were any of the reviewers also authors? I've heard of authors having their reviews taken down (it's one reason why, after a very brief period, I chose to stop doing Amazon reviews).

One of the ARC reviews was by an author, so it's possible. I don't see what that has to do with any of the others, though I doubt a person even reviewed them. It was probably one of their algorithms that flagged them. I just wish they would've had the decency to tell me what was wrong with them so I could warn any future reviewers on my blog.

I've not had that happen to any of my book's reviews, but I've had a number of reviews I wrote of other books be deleted. It was during the time that Amazon was cracking down of authors reviewing authors. I guess I must have been flagged somehow. Oddly, all but one of the reviews taken down were of books I'd grabbed off the free list and had never had any communication with the authors. I reposted them and haven't had any more trouble.

Thanks for the info Sadie. I'll try asking the ARC reviewers to repost.

I had one of my reviews taken down. It was the reviewers first review, as stated in the review, and it was also the most liked. I thought it very odd. That really stinks you had a bunch taken down.

Makes me wonder if they're flagging certain keywords in the reviews. I'll try Googling it.

Let me know if you find anything, C.G. You might try advertising with Freebooksy or ReadCheaply.com. I had a lot of success with Freebooksy and they didn't require a ton of reviews.

Seems some people are saying on several blogs that Amazon's bots are screening for keywords like "author" and "wow" in the 5 star reviews, but I don't know how much stock I should put in that. Others are saying that it's a social media connection that flags them but that seems like NSA-level of snooping so I hope that's not the case. It'd be creepy.

Thanks Sabrina for the site suggestions. I've never heard of Freebooksy. Definitely will check them out!

I've not had any reviews given to my books removed, but I have submitted my own reviews on books that have not appeared. Are Amazon saying that authors can't also be readers; we authors are probably the most prolific of readers.

When I published Not From Around Here, I was told by other authors I know that they've seen some reviews taken down and been told by Amazon that if there's any kind of connection found by their system, which usually means you can't get family or close friends that have gotten gifts from you through Amazon. Amazon claims these are not real reviews, even if your friends and family are verified purchasers---they're not allowed to have an opinion. I have also heard that about if the review uses certain words or is too effusive, but haven't seen or been told about it first hand. I have been working the blogs for reviews but they are very busy and difficult to book. Those that do are giving a few months out. But some of them will post their review on Amazon, so that has helped as well.

It might have changed recently but the whole author/reviewer business started last year and when I asked Amazon they told me an author can't review NEGATIVELY in his or her own field. Whether this now covers all reviews by authors I have no clue. If so, that is ridiculous, authors are readers too, and often read within the field they write. I do, I also rate highly if I like the book and lower if I don't.
I know they will pull a review if they think the reviewer has some interest in the author (family for example). The problem is how do they tell? It could be these people have been thought to violate TOS elsewhere and all their reviews have been pulled. Sadly there isn't much we, as authors, can do. As readers maybe they can ask Amazon themselves why the reviews were pulled and resubmit them.

Amazon told an author friend that gave me the advice, isthe reason reviews were pulled as they could tell they were related parties. His wife, with a different name probably shows up either under same account or IP address. His friend said he used the author's account or credit card once, for an order. These seem kind of arbitrary since family and friends can still have an objective opinion and might be the only reviews you can start out with. But---no use in complaining, it is what it is. But this is one of the reasons reviews disappear.

Over the last week, I have had four reviews disappear from Amazon and they will not tell me why. All they did was send me a vague email about different reasons why a review would be removed. I do know that these were all 5 star reviews and I have no connection to the people who wrote them. This is ridiculous and very suspect. I highly doubt a person would spend time doing a review just to take it down. This seriously discredits Amazon and their whole review system.

Karen wrote: "Over the last week, I have had four reviews disappear from Amazon and they will not tell me why. All they did was send me a vague email about different reasons why a review would be removed. I do k..."

I've heard of this happening before, and no one seems to have a good answer. It hasn't happened to me, yet at least, but I know it's infuriating. Oddly enough, I actually tried to get them to remove a review from my aunt but they never did. It's kind of embarrassing to have a review that says something along the lines of "I'm really enjoying this book and best of all, it was written by my niece, Rebecca!" She's not computer literate enough to figure out how to edit/delete it herself. All that to say-they don't make any sense and I'm not sure there's any use trying to figure it out. I'm sorry about your missing reviews.

This may be of interest... http://jakonrath.blogspot.co.uk/2012/...

Amazon guidance on this is quite detailed. One possibility is where reviews have been traded - i.e. two authors have read and reviewed each other's books. That would seem to fall foul of the guidelines:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/custome...

I haven't had any reviews taken down yet, either on my books or reviews that I've written *knock on wood* I sometimes write reviews of books by authors who have also reviewed books by me, but I've been very careful to do this independently, not at all in any way that could be seen as a "review exchange," and I'm always honest in my reviews (even if I tend to write them as positive as possible). Even in a 5-star review, if there's something about the book that didn't quite work, I'll point that out, both to hopefully avoid falling afoul of Amazon fake review triggers and because it lends credibility to the review - I really read the book and this is really my honest opinion.

I also make sure to review lots of books by authors that I have never had any communication with (who have certainly never even heard of me!), and I also review other products too.

Maybe I've just been lucky, or maybe these precautions have helped.

Maybe I'm being thick, but I don't understand how deleting a bunch of positive reviews is a knee jerk reaction to fix the problem of sock-puppets who leave 1-star reviews. If it's related at all, it seems more like a 'We'll teach you to complain' reaction. Like the mom who says "Stop whining or I'll give you something to cry about." Unless they are also deleting fake low-star reviews, and we just aren't hearing about it, but that seems unlikely. I used to hang out on the amazon forum and trolling was a huge problem. It got so you didn't want to say anything at all or you'd be targeted and get a slew of fake bad reviews. And now I'm here, hoping the same thing doesn't happen.

R.A. wrote: "Maybe I'm being thick, but I don't understand how deleting a bunch of positive reviews is a knee jerk reaction to fix the problem of sock-puppets who leave 1-star reviews. If it's related at all, i..."

That's why I avoid the Amazon forums. Here on Goodreads, I've heard of some bullying (I even got trolled the first day my novel went live on this site), but for the most part, there are a lot of fantastic groups like this one that have supportive, enthusiastic members and my experience has been a positive one. I enjoy discussing issues like this one and just chatting about books on all the various threads.

It's been pretty good around here for me, and I've enjoyed it. Happy to be here.

No. A few days ago my book got two 5 star reviews and at the same time two other 5 star reviews, that had been there about 3 months, one of which was the "most helpful" disappeared. Amazon told me it had to be removed by reviewer or wasn't up to their guidelines. One of the reviewers emailed my website asking why I removed their review! They were up for months and can't seem to find how they could be outside guidelines. Reviewer is looking into it. The problems continue....

That stinks, Larry. I'm sorry to hear that.

Can someone help me out here.... what's 'trolling' and how does it relate to books/authors?

Thanks, sorry for the ignorance :) !!

R.A. wrote: "That stinks, Larry. I'm sorry to hear that."

Thank you. I'm sorry to be able to say it!

Dianna wrote: "Can someone help me out here.... what's 'trolling' and how does it relate to books/authors?

Thanks, sorry for the ignorance :) !!"

Along with other things, it's when people go into groups to stir up trouble for the fun of it. Like if a couple of 'readers' from another group came over here to insult and bash indie authors. Sometimes they're just jerks picking arguments about anything or spamming threads with obnoxious statements. Sometimes the create multiple profiles to bully people or write nasty reviews. Other thoughts, anyone?

Thanks R.A.
Funny, there's room for all of us, you would think that as adults people would see that and support one another.
Do those posts usually get taken down by a moderator or can it grow into something larger?

It depends upon the moderator and sometimes on whether or not people complain about it. I haven't seen nearly as much of it on goodreads as on, say, the amazon forum, so my guess is they usually do a pretty good job of cleaning it up. If a moderator doesn't get involved the way you would like, you might just chose to leave the group to avoid wasting your precious positive energy. There are too many worthwhile endeavors in life.

Yes, all of that, too.

Since we've gone a little wider on the topic of reviews, and I can't find a current thread on this elsewhere (please excuse me if I missed something) but I have a question to ask others. I find when people pay to buy my book on Amazon, or when I specifically send it to people who consider themselves reviewers, I get very good reviews. I gave my book away in a GR giveaway, and the first two to review it had terrible things to say. I understand that not everyone will like my book, and the more people that read it, the more chance for negative reviews. However, when I looked at the kind of books those readers usually read and review (and presumably chose and paid for) they were very far away from the kind of genre fiction that make up the stories in my collection. These readers never seem to feel the need to say "not my cup of tea" instead they seem to blame the book as being awful, rather than out of their interest. Does anyone else find that the free giveaways get people who would never buy their book, and then give it reviews that seem much more negative than from the people that buy it? I was always taught "if you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything" but I understand the point of giving your review would be to keep others from wasting their money, however, does it not ever enter into anyone's mind that they might not like a book without it actually being awful?

I always advise people to check out potential reviewers before submitting to them or accepting their request to review. You would think people would have the decency to not try to review something they knew they wouldn't like, but they don't. I always read up on someone and check their reviews (do they always slam books, do they even like my genre, do they write thoughtful reviews or present themselves as less than intelligent?) before I send them a copy. I didn't at first, but I'm learning. All that to say, I think you're right. People who WANT to read your book are more likely to review it well, and if they paid for it, they've invested a bit of themselves in it, too. I'll give a copy of my first book to anyone who asks (assuming they pass my reviewer search), though in light of the disappearing review issue, I should probably look further to find out if the review is likely to stay. If they keep losing reviews or if they review swap, they're probably not a very good bet.

R.A. wrote: "I always advise people to check out potential reviewers before submitting to them or accepting their request to review. You would think people would have the decency to not try to review something ..."

Thank you. In this case, though, I'm referring specifically to the people who enter the giveaways. I have no control over that. Once they win I have to send them the book. Then, after seeing them say very nasty things about the book, I check out their profile and see they never read anything even remotely like my book. They never would have spent money for it, and in one case the person even said "at least I didn't pay for it" I think maybe if GR limited the number of contests people could enter in a month, people wouldn't enter to win books they weren't interested in.

Ah, that is a bit different. I hadn't thought about it like that, but I can see how it would change things. In that case, you would wonder why they would bother entering for it if they didn't want to read it. And if they just wanted to re-sell it, why would they bother starting it and posting a review? I've never done a giveaway or looked into it much, so I didn't know how it worked. Certainly your story has made me more wary of trying it.

I'll never do a giveaway again. On review blogs I've done them, and the worst of it is most recipients don't bother reviewing, and those are usually for ebooks, but here I've mailed paperbacks at considerable expense, and gotten particularly hostile comments, ones that don't match reviews by reviewers or readers who paid for the book. And as I said, if you look at what they read, you wouldn't expect them to like it. Most recipients don't even acknowledge the books or review them, though I have had a couple that at least rate it, even if no written review. Overall, giving away book during blog promotions or here at GR has been less than gratifying and I think that is a practice I'll end. I've been told by other writers that when they give ebooks away for free on Amazon, they get as many negative as positive reviews because, again, these are people who would never have paid for the books, and can't seem to differentiate between not liking a book and it not being "their cup of tea". Overall, this is a promotional tool that I'm dropping. Though, I am testing giving away a signed copy when I do radio interviews, to one of the listeners and I'll let people know how that goes in the appropriate thread.

The only place I've given away my book for free is Story Cartel and that was a good experience for me. They list your book for free for 20 days and ask people for honest reviews. They don't guarantee you will get any reviews. To encourage people to review you can offer amazon gift cards or free copies of your book and Story Cartel will draw winners from the people who did reviews. That way reviewers are not guaranteed a prize either. I got at least 8 amazon reviews and they were all 4 and 5 star.

Karen wrote: "The only place I've given away my book for free is Story Cartel and that was a good experience for me. They list your book for free for 20 days and ask people for honest reviews. They don't guarant..."

Thanks Karen, maybe I just have to be more selective where I give it away. I will look into this. Thanks!

I know this discussion is about disappearing reviews but since we are talking a little bit about giveaways as they relate to reviews I was wondering something. If you have a following on social media (twitter, Facebook) why not do your giveaway on one of those sites. I mean, those people are clearly fans of your work so you know they are the target audience. You could giveaway a signed copy of a book they already read or maybe you giveaway a new title you have coming out, then they (already a fan of your work) can do a review. I should note that I have absolutely no experience with this yet, my books won't be out until this summer, it was just a thought.

Dianna wrote: "I know this discussion is about disappearing reviews but since we are talking a little bit about giveaways as they relate to reviews I was wondering something. If you have a following on social med..."

Hi Dianna, It's always good to do promotions with any followers/fans you may have---assuming you have them. Not From Around Here is my first book, though I had a following on yahoo from having posted articles and fiction there for a couple of years. The idea behind any giveaway, GR or promotional blog, is to reach new readers/new audience that you don't already have a list. Several hundred readers on GR put my book on their to-read list during the giveaway because it interested them. Conceivably, some of them may opt to purchase the book at some point. This is a good way to build some name recognition and find some potential new readers, as well as, hopefully, get some good reviews form those who win the book. That's why you might try this. However, in practice, I found people entered to win, and did win, who might not be interested in my particular writing. Why? What easier and cheaper way to sample a book you might or might not be interested, then to win one for free?? That's great for them, and I don't have a problem with it. But if you don't like a book, maybe because it's not your type of book, you could be considerate of the author that just spent many dollars having a copy printed and mailed to you, by not posting nasty comments about the book. Just some thoughts and experience from having done 1 GR and 2 blog giveaways. The blogs were a much different experience than the GR and I only gave away ebooks on the blogs. I received a few 4 and 5 star ratings and reviews from people who won the ebook from a blog giveaway.

Makes sense Larry! Can you be selective in where you do your give-aways? For example, if you write thrillers, can you go to a discussion group here that focus solely on thrillers and offer the give-away to that audience. This way, many of them may be prospective first timers to your work but you know they like your genre which could be helpful in terms of reviews.

Dianna wrote: "Makes sense Larry! Can you be selective in where you do your give-aways? For example, if you write thrillers, can you go to a discussion group here that focus solely on thrillers and offer the give..."

Dianna, your advice is eminently practical! Not sure if its possible on Goodreads. Could have promoted it within those groups perhaps, but whatever GR's mechanisms are, it got over 800 entries to the contest. I should update to say that, I have now gotten a great review from a winner. I don't think everyone who enters is inappropriate, but my experience plus the feedback of others, is that contests for free books will get many entries form people who otherwise would not be interested and those come with, often, negative reviews. On genre related blogs, you will get an audience more likely to read your type of book, so probably need to focus on more specific sites like that. Thank you!

Mika wrote: "Larry wrote: "Since we've gone a little wider on the topic of reviews, and I can't find a current thread on this elsewhere (please excuse me if I missed something) but I have a question to ask othe..."

I know, right?! It's a bit disappointing. I would've thought it was an isolated case, if every author I've come to know didn't have a similar experience. Over the years I've stopped reading a book or two because it "wasn't my cup of tea." I never felt the need to review those, much less give them a negative review just because it wasn't for me. However, some people actually seem to relish tearing down a new author's work. Strange. Not sure what anyone gets out of that?

They get to release their frustration and spite on someone who can't identify them or fight back. My gut feeling is that they're upset in some other area of life, and reviews make an easy outlet.

R.A. wrote: "They get to release their frustration and spite on someone who can't identify them or fight back. My gut feeling is that they're upset in some other area of life, and reviews make an easy outlet."

I suspect you're quite right. I know other authors feel similarly. It would explain it.

I lost four 4 & 5 star reviews on amazon since this morning. No one is going to convince me that four people took the time to give me a good review and then deleted them, and all in the same day. Something is seriously off with that website and I'm so frustrated because amazon will not give me answers.

I've heard they target reviews that have too many superlatives in them, but of course I can't be sure it's true. If that's the problem, it's really not fair to YA writers, since teen girls tend to use a lot of strong words whether they be positive or negative.

Whatever the reason, I'm sorry to hear that they're giving you grief. I guess that's one nice thing about being obscure like me. Amazon barely knows I exist, and they don't give a flip about my reviews. The good news is that they can't keep your readers from telling their friends about your book. They could delete every review up there, but you still have a solid following.

Amazon is losing it and we may need some kind of petition to get help. I lost another 5 star review this week, after losing two last week. I hear rumors about superlatives too, except, people tend to use them when they like something. Amazon seems to have a problem with people liking stuff,especially indie stuff. Anyone hear of any disappearing bad reviews? One of my readers who had his review disappear contacted me to say they contacted Amazon and the customer service person couldn't explain why it disappeared. They tried reposting their review and it won't go up. It makes you wonder how many good reviews you might have gotten that disappear before you ever know about them. It's getting disturbing since you need a bunch of good reviews for Amazon to push your work. Now, we lose the good ones, and if you have any mediocre or bad reviews, they stick around to bring down your average and start to make your book look less appealing. This is not good.

Four reviews? Okay that's a lot. I've lost about three myself, but spread over a couple years. One was from my old hairdresser who I didn't even know had bought my book until she mentioned that Amazon wasn't letting her post a review. I haven't seen the woman in years! I'm really trying to figure out if she put in her review that she knew me, or if Amazon magically knew there was a connection--albeit a distant one.

Another one was from a writer friend who I had reviewed in the past, so that one at least made sense.

Judy wrote: "Four reviews? Okay that's a lot. I've lost about three myself, but spread over a couple years. One was from my old hairdresser who I didn't even know had bought my book until she mentioned that A..."

It's gotten so that I've asked other writers either to not review my book or to delete an old review so that we wouldn't cross paths. I hate to think of being put on some sort of 'no review' list.
It's strange about your hairdresser, though. There's no telling what the issue was, if there was one at all.