Sci-Fi, fantasy and speculative Indie Authors Review discussion

As I edit my own work, I apply many lenses to it (remove the word 'said', he said sarcastically... Attribution through Action. Don't use the word 'that' because 'that' doesn't belong in a sentence. Proper use of M-dashes. Cut the fat, kill your darlings, advance the plot, no backstory or flashbacks, no head-hopping, etc...)

Unfortunately, this internal editor is hard to shut up when I read for 'enjoyment'. It's hard not to be broken out of my 'voluntary suspension of disbelief' and stay hiding from the Mob in the Bazaar on Deva with Skeeve when Asprin just head-hopped.

Anybody else run into this problem?

It's hard for me to turn off the internal editor when it's not an assignment (I do this for a living). Unless I'm hella engrossed in the story, it finally shuts off.

Plenty of people doing that. The question is how far will you go with something that you don't like for structural reasons.

I will follow the story until I find myself not wanting to read the story because of the story, not the way it was presented.

I also have bad eyes, so for me, anything printed over a picture is not going to get very far, unless it is a picture of a snowstorm.

Yep. My internal editor wants to edit everything, even Internet ads.

You're not suppose to even peek at internet ads.

Only if I'm not completely engrossed in the story and if I'm not completely engrossed in the story, I stop reading, so that's a no from me.

Robert wrote: "You're not suppose to even peek at internet ads."

I finally got an ad blocker.

Not really. Sure, sometimes I'll think, "I wouldn't have said it this way." Then I remember authors are all different. That's what makes it entertaining.

Little opsies don't bother me; eGoblins tend to creep everywhere. We can't kill them without being accused of goblicide (or is it goblinocide?) so we have to learn to live with them. :P

Some usages are a matter of what's taught and used in a particular region, some are a matter of style, while some are just wrong no matter what.

Unless it's in the last category I usually don't worry about it.

If it's a book brought back via page scanning without a competent editor comparing the new e-copy for print to the original, it makes me want my money back.

My cringe areas would be from seeing people mutilating a fine blade, mishandling a firearm, or my tiny demon taking off a diaper full of schtuff then walking it over to me while leaving a trail of, something.

I edit my own work as well, and when I'm off the clock my English teacher persona is off the clock as well.

Depends on my reading format.

When I'm reading a physical book I can switch it off almost entirely. I'll still notice copyediting snafus and poor proof reading (word inversions, sentences missing punctuation, clipped sentences and all that). But for the most part, I don't pay attention to the "rules" of writing.

Well, except in that I do tend to notice when sentences work very well. I'll stop and analyze them a bit to see what makes them work. Try to remember what I discover when I write.

I'm pretty much the same way when reading on my Kindle. For some reason, an eDevice solely dedicated to reading (this is a Voyage...no internet browsing, no apps and all that) allows me to treat a book as a book and not as an editable file.

BUT...if I try to read an eBook on my PC...Nope. Can't do it w/out being in edit mode.

I also go into edit mode when I sample books on amazon's Look Inside feature. That's what sells me (or more often turns me off to) a book anyway.

I am finding I enjoy editing more than writing. Maybe that's only because I'm writing now and not editing.

Editing or writing would be better than packing for a move. Sorting through one kid's clothes to box, shazbat the kid has collected some clothes.

R.F.G. wrote: "Editing or writing would be better than packing for a move. Sorting through one kid's clothes to box, shazbat the kid has collected some clothes."

I was going to say something about "kill your darlings" ... but probably we should just forget that.

If my internal editor kicks in, the author has lost me and I stop reading. Often, I stop reading when my internal editor doesn't kick in.

But then, since I don't remove the word 'said', I use 'that' a lot and even 'that that', I wouldn't kill our darlings for all the tea in China, our books are usually 30% backstory, we have flashbacks that run for over 100 print pages, we head-hopping constantly, we think fat makes everything taste better, and the plot advances on its own, except when it goes backwards or sideways, maybe my internal editor isn't very strong.

But we insist on proper use of M-dashes -- and we insist on using them properly at least once a paragraph. Twice, if possible.

So, I guess the answer for me is "no".

I hate to say this, but yes, It happened before. I just remembered a book I put aside because of editing, and it made me sad because I was in love with the cover and the the idea of the story before I even started. I don't mind the occasional typos, wrong word, or punctuating mistakes but I have a problem when half the sentences are dangling participles and I have to stop and reread to figure out who is actually doing the action. It loses me.

I was probably not in the mood for it so I may try it again sometimes. After all, if over half a thousand people reviewed it and most seemed to like it, I'm sure I could too if I can get past that. I so wanted to read (love) that series. :(

G.G. wrote: " After all, if over half a thousand people reviewed it and most seemed to like it, I'm sure I could too if I can set my expectations low enough."

There. Fixed that sentence for you.

Micah wrote: "G.G. wrote: " After all, if over half a thousand people reviewed it and most seemed to like it, I'm sure I could too if I can set my expectations low enough."

There. Fixed that sentence for you."

LOL That too! ;)

G.G. wrote: "I hate to say this, but yes, It happened before. I just remembered a book I put aside because of editing, and it made me sad because I was in love with the cover and the the idea of the story befo..."

What the hell is a "dangling participle" anyway? Can you spray for them?

From Grammar Girl: "Hiking the trail, the birds chirped loudly." Used correctly, dangling participles can be funny. And spraying leads only to a more virulent variety.

The participle phrases should match with the subjects of the sentence.

In the example Ken gives, I'm sure it wasn't the birds that were hiking the trail. :P

Don't take me wrong. I'm not a difficult person to satisfy. A few 'weeds' won't make me run as long as I'm not surrounded by those prickly things. Dandelions are beautiful flowers after all.

http://blog.oxforddictionaries.com/20...

Chris wrote: "As I edit my own work, I apply many lenses to it (remove the word 'said', he said sarcastically... Attribution through Action. Don't use the word 'that' because 'that' doesn't belong in a sentence...."

Chris wrote: "As I edit my own work, I apply many lenses to it (remove the word 'said', he said sarcastically... Attribution through Action. Don't use the word 'that' because 'that' doesn't belong in a sentence...."

You're not alone. The best way ( for me) don't block it off when your writing the first draft of your work. When you're done then turn it on when you're reading over it. Now the hardest part for me, might be for you too-when it comes to revision.
Often revision and editing can 'easily' overlap each other. At times I can be over critical and have to stop my self, remind myself this is the revision and editing has to be minor. If I don't live by that rule I will never get the project complete also ruin the story.
After that is editing. This falls into what you said 'editing mind may kill the flavor of the story.' Opinion wise as long as your revision meets 'your' standards it may be easier for you to edit.

Chris wrote: "Unfortunately, this internal editor is hard to shut up when I read for 'enjoyment'. It's hard not to be broken out of my 'voluntary suspension of disbelief' and stay hiding from the Mob in the Bazaar on Deva with Skeeve when Asprin just head-hopped...."

I find that I cannot enjoy reading a document electronically, because then I'm editing.
I have far less problems with reading something on paper, perhaps because under those circumstances the internal editor doesn't feel called on to intervene.

This even works with my own books, I only ever attempt to read them in paperback once they're published :-)

My internal editor is a pain. I find myself highlighting the errors on my tablet! That does kick me out of the story.

I remember a time when books did not have errors in them. They were properly edited and all errors and other problems with style sorted before publishing. Now I/m a self-published author, so I'm not really into knocking my friends who are self-published too, but there are so many errors in many of these works, even those that claim to have been professionally edited. This is also the case, I'm sorry to say, in many traditionally published books.

I read a traditionally published book a little while ago with so many errors of spelling and syntax, and wrong word usage that it was impossible to read. It was also badly plotted too with the protagonist's attitude being totally unbelievable. She had been captured, and when a possibility of escape presented itself she made no attempt to flee. How do such books get published by Trad publishers when I've read many well-written Indie published books that can't get a publisher.

OK, rant over. I don't think that my internal editor is only since I've started writing myself though. I think it is something to do with having been a teacher as well as my inherent dislike of grammatical errors in speech as well. I have been known to wipe out wrongly placed apostrophes on boards outside shops!

Editing?
I blogged about how much money there is in this business a bit back

https://jandbvwebster.wordpress.com/2...

Frankly I don't think the publishers can afford to do the editing that they did forty years ago.

Only if the author is Dan Brown ;)

Luitha wrote: "Only if the author is Dan Brown ;)"

right in one

I was always amused by audiophiles who had to have the most exquisite stereo systems before they could enjoy music. Talk about the Princess and the Pea. To become an editophile would be even worse. Yes, I wince slightly when I see 'participle phrases' rather than 'participial phrases,' even though the former isn't a formal error -- but life is for living.

Just don't misspell things -- that's ugly. Unless it's deliberate.

If a book has me turning on my internal editor, that book shouldn't have been published. The only books I'm able to edit are my own, so it says a lot if I find myself editing someone else's published, should-already-be-cleaned-up work.

There was one book my sister and I tried to read. The entire book was all tell, no show, and we had no idea the main character could even talk until three chapters in.

Ya know... This is giving me a fabulous idea. Write a book. Add a deliberate typo every dozen paragraphs or so. Send it out into the wild with that little begging message asking all readers to review. If the reviews mention the editing, then I know it's not my editing that I have to work on, but my storytelling.

Oy, a deliberate typo every dozen paragraphs or so would definitely raise the ire of many readers, and they would most likely mention it -- some readers have stated they quit reading a book once they see the first typo or error.

Sounds like a plan.

I do get this effect, but I find it varies according to the author. Usually, the writer has a very different style to mine, and my editing brain is not activated. I find Stieg Larsson (or his translator?) has a style close enough to mine that it does switch on. Every few pages I spot a few words I'd have run a red pen through.

To be honest, of course, his style is close to what I wish for in my writing, not for the actuality.

Mark wrote: "I was always amused by audiophiles who had to have the most exquisite stereo systems before they could enjoy music. Talk about the Princess and the Pea. To become an editophile would be even worse...."

That used to be me, but now any old stereo will do, as long as the speakers don't rattle. On the other hand, the best system I ever owned was a quadraphonic back in the '70s that put sound everywhere. I still have a 1973 Panasonic Technics turntable that still plays the old records like new.

R.F.G. wrote: "Oy, a deliberate typo every dozen paragraphs or so would definitely raise the ire of many readers, and they would most likely mention it -- some readers have stated they quit reading a book once th..."

That's the point. If the reader is noticing, then I didn't do my job, did I?

Christina wrote: "That's the point. If the reader is noticing, then I didn't do my job, did I?"

With some people no matter how well you write as an Indie, their focus will be the editing instead of the story.

R.F.G. wrote: "...some readers have stated they quit reading a book once they see the first typo or error."

They wouldn't end up finishing many books, then. Pretty much every single book I've read over the last year has had one or more. Trad published or not.

I forgive a lot of them because it's obvious sometimes that the error came after the author did his job (errors caused during editing). But I also run into things I'd never allow in my own work (or don't allow if I catch them), like using the same word more than once in a sentence or close together in the same paragraph. May not be technically wrong, but there are almost always other words you could use. I'd expect an editor to catch that.

Well, if someone wants to actually pay attention to who the publisher is and go through the book with a magnifying glass, that's one thing.
But consider this: the majority of books that I've read recently have had typos. Some of those books have many reviews stating as much. Some have many reviews raving about how amazing the story is. Some of the books with the rave reviews were more riddled with typos than the books that had reviews complaining about them. Good storytelling is the best mask. Engage your readers and they'll forgive a lot more than even they realize.

I just read an ancient library paperback of Larry Niven's Ringworld. It wasn't riddled with typos, but it did have some--far more than any of the Indie books I've read lately.

There is also a phenomenon, is there not, where the reviewer is actually a professional editor. I've had kind and helpful reviews from folks who seem to be in that business. On the one hand, they are giving me advice for free, which is great. On the other hand, they're doing so in hopes of drumming up business, and their remarks are public. Not sure of the moral equation here.