Classics for Beginners discussion

This includes books 1-3.

Oh, boy! Oh, boy! Oh, boy! I've been looking forward to starting our group read for this one. Anyone else gonna be reading along?

Excellent! I was hoping there would be others reading along. I've purchased my copy tonight and will start reading tomorrow morning.

Book 1 Chapter 4: Does anyone know who the narrator is supposed to be? It sounds like he/she lives in the same town as the protagonists, and so far it's written from his/her perspective. But, did I miss who is supposed to BE the narrator?

Thanks, Karen! I saw you finished W&P. Looking forward to reading this one with you too!

And, from Wiki, it sounds like the narrator is omniscient but not necessarily a real character:

"Though privy to many of the thoughts and feelings of the protagonists, the narrator is a self-proclaimed writer; he discusses his own mannerisms and personal perceptions so often in the novel that he becomes a character. Through his descriptions, the narrator's voice merges imperceptibly into the tone of the people he is describing, often extending into the characters' most personal thoughts. There is no voice of authority in the story (see Mikhail Bakhtin's Problems of Dostoyevsky's Poetics for more on the relationship between Dostoyevsky and his characters)."

The narrator certainly feels like a character but he's not. I started reading this book last year and I still don't have a valid reason as why I haven't finished it. So, I'll come back to it again, now that this group's reading it. I'll reread some chapters because, honestly, I can't remember! And hopefully, I'll be able to share some thoughts with you all. Have a nice read :)

Hi, Florencia! Looking forward to sharing your thoughts. :-)

Thanks, Sunny!

I finished Part One last night. After discovering how much I enjoy reading Tolstoy, I was really hoping that I'd enjoy Dostoyevsky just as much. But, so far, I can't say that I do.

I'm theorizing that it might be due to the type of characters in this story. Daddy Karamazov is, let's face it, a douche bag. And most of the other characters (except, maybe, Alyosha) have zero redeeming qualities. I rated Wuthering Heights a one-star read, but after reading a number of five-star reviews, I've determined that I'll need to re-read it someday. Maybe I need to know going into a book that I won't like the characters?

Joy wrote: "Was just reading book 2, chapter 4 I think, about the priest? Who is the priest and what is the significance of his popularity and wisdom?"

I can't keep the monastic community straight in my head yet, but I think you might be asking about Elder Zosima? If so, I found this blurb on Wikipedia that might be helpful...

"Father Zosima, the Elder Father Zosima is an Elder and spiritual advisor (starets) in the town monastery and Alyosha's teacher. He is something of a celebrity among the townspeople for his reputed prophetic and healing abilities. His popularity inspires both admiration and jealousy amidst his fellow monks. Zosima provides a refutation to Ivan's atheistic arguments and helps to explain Alyosha's character. Zosima's teachings shape the way Alyosha deals with the young boys he meets in the Ilyusha storyline. The character of Father Zosima was to some extent inspired by that of Saint Tikhon of Zadonsk."

Joy wrote: "Thanks. I really need to get a sparks note or something to help me with this book.

I had no idea this book contained so much philosophizing about Christianity and the Church with a capital C. Inte..."

Does the version that you're reading have any footnotes or endnotes? I'm reading a B&N version, and while it does have SOME notes, they have not been nearly as helpful as some of their other classics. I think the only reason I'm even making heads or tails of it is because I just finished another Russian classic which had a ton of footnotes.

RitaSkeeter wrote: "I should be able to start this in a couple of days hopefully."

:)

Hmmmm. I just checked the feedbooks version here on goodreads to see if there were some notes you could print out, but there's not really any good ones there either.

I looked at the Sparks Notes online, but I'm not sure if you'd appreciate them or not. It's more like a summary by chapter, so it's kind of filled with spoilers.

Maybe reading the online sparks notes for the chapters after you finish each chapter?

@Joy: That's a much better way to use Spark than I was thinking. I hope it helps you out. I may be coming to you with my questions, because I'm afraid to google-research for fear of spoilers. :)

@Rita: Tolstoy and orgies... LOL! I'm struggling to enjoy D. in the same way that I enjoyed T. Are my expectations realistic? I'm starting to wonder if it's even fair to compare the two. I mean, they are both Russian authors from approximately the same time period... but other than that, what are the typical comparisons?

Well, I'm reading it in Spanish, there's no way I'd be able to finish this in English before my 90th birthday! It's a tough read but trust me, if you enjoy reading insightful reflections on every aspect of human nature, you're going to love this. Tough but so worth it. FD described love, life, doubts concerning god, morality, etc., with such honesty and beauty. I'm a bit of a Russophile, so I can't always be 100% objective, but I must admit I found one book a bit boring. But just one, and that's just me, AND it's nothing comparing to the whole book. (Am I selling it right?)
I'm (slowly) rereading from book 9--to remember a bit more--but I'm more than willing to reread previous books to talk about with you all :) See you!

Florencia wrote: "...I must admit I found one book a bit boring."

Oh, the curiosity is killing me. :) Which book?

RitaSkeeter wrote: "...I already hate Daddy K, lol."

Yeah, I know. Totally agree with you. There's absolutely zero there to like. And, I'm not real fond of Dimitri, Ivan, Smerdykov (which I read as "Stinky" in my head), or Grushenka. Somehow, I'm starting to think D. wants us to hate everyone. :)

Stinky! LOL! That cracked me up! :)

Florencia wrote: "Well, I'm reading it in Spanish, there's no way I'd be able to finish this in English before my 90th birthday! It's a tough read but trust me, if you enjoy reading insightful reflections on every a..."

The Russian classics intimidate me a little so any insights from a Russophile will be gladly read!

@Sunny: Heh. Sorry. (view spoiler)[I was talking about book 6. (hide spoiler)] And I also don't have favorites characters. Sometimes I like Alyosha--until he gets on my nerves--, other times, I enjoyed reading Ivan's thoughts. I can't like them like I'd wish to, but I kind of understand them (most of the times) because we're all human. And, even if we wouldn't act like they do, I see that human degradation described in this book, also in real life. It's not pretty, but it's real. That's what I love about FD's works :)

@Rita: Thank you!

Oh, thank-you! It has made my day that it made someone smile! Obviously I wear my heart on my sleeve about a dearly beloved series, ha ha. :)

I want Tolstoy back.

LOL! I know this isn't the right thread, Rita, but if it helps, Chapter 4 was an improvement in my opinion.

@Sunny - I'll hang out for that!
@Joy - unfortunately audio books are just not for me as I get distracted and have to keep going back and re-listening to things!!

Am I the only one who thinks Dostoyevsky was a misogynist? Women are either whores or "shriekers" and I've just read the gem of a chapter called 'Stinking Lizaveta'. Charming. Poor girl (view spoiler)[ lives a horrid life, gets raped, subsequently has a baby as a result of the rape and dies after childbirth (hide spoiler)] and the chapter is called Stinking Lizaveta. Seriously?! The male characters are all repulsive but we don't see them being treated with such vitriol.

Stinking Lizaveta. Yes! This is why now I hear "Stinky" in my head whenever Smerdyakov (or whatever his name is) comes into the scene.

@Rita: You make a good point. But I don't really think FD is a misogynist. He describes how a woman was mistreated by other people. The fact that you write about a degrading situation doesn't mean you're okay with that. Penniless women (and men) were often considered worthless human beings (that hasn't changed that much) and if you add the "insanity" element... FD describes it too vividly. But that's part of a crude reality. It's hard to read but that doesn't mean that kind of cruelty is uncommon. Otherwise, he would be a misogynist and a misandrist. All his characters have flaws. He depicts them just like they all are. I think he's quite harsh when he has to speak about male characters, especially about Fyodor K. But that's only my opinion. Like I said, I'm kind of in love with his writing :P

@Sunny: Haha, yes. I read that Smerdyakov means something like "the stinking one" or "the son of the stinking one".

@Florencia: I think it is always an interesting debate as to what is authorial voice as opposed to the voice of the characters.

In this case, I think we will need to agree to disagree, though of course I may change my viewpoint after reading further through the novel. What concerned me is that it is the author, not the characters, calling Lizaveta 'stinking' and calling other women 'shriekers'. While I have seen the men in the novel do some repulsive things I don't think I have seen them labelled anything harsher than a 'sensualist' as yet, and I don't see sensualist anywhere near the same ball park as shrieker or stinking.

I guess we will see if my views change as I get further into the novel! :)

RitaSkeeter wrote: "@Florencia: I think it is always an interesting debate as to what is authorial voice as opposed to the voice of the characters.

In this case, I think we will need to agree to disagree, though of c..."

The omniscient "narrator" - who seems to almost be a character himself - I keep confusing the narrator with FD himself. I wonder how much of the narrator's comments coincide with the author's opinions?

Sunny in Wonderland wrote: "RitaSkeeter wrote: "@Florencia: I think it is always an interesting debate as to what is authorial voice as opposed to the voice of the characters.

In this case, I think we will need to agree to d..."

Very good point, and something I have clearly done. Something to keep in mind as I keep going.

I'm very behind everyone else, haven't quite finished this section yet, but I'm enjoying the writing so far. It's an interesting story and I'm excited to see where it goes. Hopefully I'll be able to spend more time on this book and catch up with everyone!

Looking forward to discussing with you. :-)

I'm slowly catching up :)

I agree with the comments do far- Fyodor Karamazov is a bit of an a$$, but the sons seem to think that they are entitled to something. I get that their father wasn't really a father to them when they were young, but I still don't think that means they are entitled to anything. It's interesting that Dostoyevsky would give his name to the father... Wonder if he just couldn't create a new name or if it was intentional.

I am enjoying the book, but I find the writing a bit slow at times.

I found the writing slow as well. It was a tough read for me. Some parts were fantastic, but a lot - a lot - was just too preachy for me to really enjoy.

Will anyone be reading this in June? Debating whether to start or not.... hmmmm?

I'm reading Crime and Punishment now and am so pleasantly surprised by FD's language and storytelling that you can say I'm completely thrown from a moving vehicle and still reading while flying through the air. That was my immediate reaction. It definitely has a psychological element to it. I'm almost finished and that rush of finding a great author has worn off, I still enjoy the storytelling each time I pick it up again.

I'm eager and actually really excited to get going on TBK. I'll start immediately after finishing C&P. :)