A Song of Ice and Fire - A Chapter a day discussion

A short chapter, when not a long going on besides the bows, but with an ending that shocked me the first time.

1-Sam will help Maester Aemon! Yay! He seems so happy, he's so cute.

2-So, they are about to take their bows. Their crimes will be forgiven, which is why most of them are there. Mormont said clearly they will serve the realm, and only the realm. This is why they don't get involved in lord's stuff, just how it happened in the inn Catelyn took Tyrion. I think taking from them so many things (like the chance to have wives, children and lands) is really hard, so maybe this, add uo to the fact that is freaking cold and it doesn't seem like so much fun, is one of the reasons not a lot of people is at the Wall now.

3-I found it interesting that no one moved when Mormont said it was their chance to leave. A lot of them complained about not being there by choice, yet no one left.

4-i liked Jon said he wants to say his vows in front of a tree, in front of the old gods like his uncle. But he has to go beyond the Wall to do so, and it will be the first time he goes out. Sam wants to go too, and I liked the explanation he gave about why he quit his gods.

5-Jon goes to the stewards, and he is shocked! Him, the best of them all to clean and bring food? He is so mad, lol. He is forgetting how they treated him for that attitude when he arrived. And of course Allister was happy, smiling for the first time since Jon arrived. What a weird man to find joy in this kinda stuff.

6-So, Sam replaced Chett, Dareon will go to Eastwatch by the Sea, and Jon will be Lord Mormont's steward. His pride is hurt, so he is furious. He believes this has Allister's name all over it, and it is not fair. But then Dareon tells his story, about he did not raped that girl, and THAT isn't fair. I love Jon, but he was being way too childhish about this. But he then realised it, so it's fine. He is still young, so it's not so bad. Sam also makes him realise what it means to be Mormont's steward; he is really perceptive and very smart. Funny how Jon changes his mind once he sees Mormont wants him to be his successor.

7-I liked the description of the tunnel. It's odd, to say the least. Sounds like not so many people could fit at once.

8-When they got to the woods, Jon compares the hunted forest to the one near Winterfell, thinking it's the same but different. Darker shadows, the sounds more ominous. So creepy! And he mentions usually he's seen 2 to 3 white trees together, but he is in front of 9, which is apparently extremely rare.

9-I don't know what this bow has, but I do remember most of it. Maybe because I really like it. Anyway, I think it's great, and it really shows what the men of the Night's Watch used to be. I don't know if they are so committed now.

10-I forgot Ghost is compared to the white trees. "White fur and red eyes." Interesting! But more interesting is the black hand he has between his jaws. This was also a surprise the first time I read the book.

I'm really curious about the weirwood grove above the Wall. If it is so rare to find 9, in a semi-circle might I add, why are they there? Sounds like a very old and significant sacred place, moreso than most other places in this world.

1. Love how Jon acts like he had no part in Sam's graduation. :) Surprised Sam didn't catch on, though he is pretty excited to think of anything other than his good fortune.

2. Sam is going to help Maester Aemon with the birds and letters. He is really happy about this, bouncing about.

3. The Night's Watch has a sept and a Septon Cellador, who apparently is almost always drunk, lol.

4. Bowen Marsh is the Lord Steward, the leader of the steward order. Othel Yarwyck is the First Builder, and Ser Jaremy Rykkar is filling in for Benjen Stark of the rangers. They are the senior members of the three orders.

5. I had forgotten they do this in a sept, makes more sense then why they take the ones who worship the old gods out back... because the ones who worship the new gods, or who don't care, will say their vows here. I wondered about that.

6. The first thing Mormont says is "You came to us outlaws..." lol. That's true for the vast majority. But he stresses that their past doesn't matter; because they're all one house on the Wall. He also stresses they join it for the realm, and nothing else.

7. The penalty for desertion is death. *SPOILER FOR A DANCE WITH DRAGONS* (view spoiler)[But Jon wasn't going to desert them in the fifth book! (hide spoiler)] He tells them that if they don't wish to join they are free to leave and no one will think less of that person, but most of them kinda can't, can they? It's either take the black or die. Or lose a hand or a cock...

8. Interesting: "The gods of the sept had nothing to do with him; the blood of the First Men flowed in the veins of the Starks." *SPOILER FOR A SONG OF ICE AND FIRE* (view spoiler)[But if Jon is part Targaryen, the Targayen's worship the Seven, don't they? And even if he isn't, his mother could have worshipped the Seven. The point is, Jon's not full Stark. It's interesting that he so fully rejects these gods when he doesn't even know the other half of his family tree. (hide spoiler)]

9. I just love how Sam wants to take his vows in front of "this heart tree." :) It surprises Jon, too. "The Seven have never answered my prayers. Perhaps the old gods will." I hope they do, Sam!

10. I love the scene where Jon can scarcely believe his ears. He's being sent to the stewards with Sam and Dareon, not the rangers as he was so sure he belonged in. He sees Ser Alliser's evil satisfied look and knows he was somehow involved. What a hateful man to take pleasure in something like this!

11. I wonder how often they "graduate" their recruits, whether it is twice a year or what. Wonder how all that works.

12. Ser Alliser has never looked so happy, according to Jon.

13. Jon stayed with the stewards, to be instructed by Bowen Marsh. He even feels sick. While Sam is exalted to be helping Maester Aemon, Bowen tells Jon the Lord Commander has personally requested him. Jon is livid by this, going as far as asking if they take him for a servant. "No. We took you for a man of Night's Watch...but perhaps we were wrong in that." Says Maester Aemon. Nicely put, Maester!

14. Didn't realize Jon came so close to walking out, angry about this. It's funny because in Jon's last chapter he was just telling Maester Aemon that the realm, and the Wall, has need of all types of people, including stewards, yet now he's insulted because he's told to be one of them. Bit of a hypocrite, there!

15. Very interesting: "Jon's rage was such that he would have smashed it [the Wall] all in an instant, and the world be damned." Doesn't sound like he's Lord Eddard Stark's son there! *SPECULATION OF JON'S TRUE HERITAGE* (view spoiler)[Sounds a little bit like a raving lunatic Targaryen! (hide spoiler)]

16. Also interesting: "I'm a better swordsman and a better rider than any of you," Jon blazed back. "It's not fair!"

-I don't recall Jon being much associated with fire as often as he is with the cold.

17. I just LOVE how it's Sam's turn to show wisdom here. He's the one who explains to Jon how this is a blessing in disguise. They're breeding him to be the next Lord Commander! Sam isn't stupid. And I love how Jon is taken aback; this thought clearly never crossed his mind until now. Jon realizes Sam's right; Ned would make sure Robb always attended his audiences at Winterfell. I don't think Jon ever thought he'd rise high enough to ever become Lord Commander, only a ranger. "I never asked for this," he said stubbornly. Isn't that exactly what Ned said?

18. Suddenly Jon's ashamed. Awe. :) Even Sam managed to accept his fate on the Wall like a man, though he is scared as piss. Jon realizes he was acting childish. He even mans up and tells Sam he's right; he was acting the boy.

19. There are three iron bars inside the tunnel of the Wall, large gates evenly spread out, to protect it. They are underneath 700 feet of ice! Jon can sense the massive weight above him, pressing down. The Wall also has old magics; I'm wondering if Jon feels that, as well. That might explain why he felt immediate relief when they emerged on the other side. I didn't think Jon to be claustrophobic. This will also be their first time north of the Wall, ever. Or maybe it's the Far North itself that he feels more welcoming to him than the Wall -- feeling relief at leaving that giant man-made thing behind to convene with nature?

20. Bowen Marsh's horse is nervous around Ghost, like most animals, and Bowen asks if he means to take "that beast?" It's good he's with them, I think. A direwolf can protect them on their journey.

21. Jon compares the haunted forest to the wolfswood back home. Looks about the same, though it has a very different feel. He figures it's the unknown that makes it seem more ominous.

22. There are nine weirwoods in this godswood, all in a circle, too. Jon's heard of two or three weirwoods growing together, but "a grove of nine was unheard of." Spooky!

23. Surprised Bowen says it's a sacred place, and they will not defile it. He doesn't strike me as a religious person.

24. "They're watching us," says Sam. "The old gods." Jon agrees that they are. Once again, inanimate objects are "watching." (1. The ancient stone-statues of the Starks in the crypts at Winterfell. 2. The dragon skulls in the Red Keep. 3. The faces of the weirwood trees.) Very ominous!

25. Here is the very famous vow taken by the Night's Watch. It's only Jon and Sam saying them up here, in front of the old gods. Lots of people break it down and analyze it, *SPOILER FOR A DANCE WITH DRAGONS* (view spoiler)[especially in regards to what Jon did, or did not do, in DwD. Whether or not it was treason to go down to Winterfell and dispatch of Ramsay Snow for personally threatening his life. Does that warrant his underhanded murder? (hide spoiler)] trying to decipher what it means, exactly. For instance, what does it mean, "...the horn that wakes the sleepers..."? We will hear these vows several times throughout the series. It means something big, obviously. But what does it mean, specifically, to be Night's Watch? Notice it says, "...the shield that guards the realms of men." Sounds universal, not restricted only to the North, or even to the realm of Westeros. How can you protect the realms, ALL realms, if you're restricted to the Wall???

26. Just as they get ready to start back, Ghost emerges between two weirwood trees. "White fur and red eyes, Jon realized, disquieted. Like the trees..." Now Jon notices this correlation.

27. The chapter ends with Ghost bringing to them a hand in his mouth. Fun cliffhanger!

*SPOILER FOR A DANCE WITH DRAGONS* (view spoiler)[He wasn't going to desert, but he was not doing what he was supposed to. He wanted to rescue Arya, all the thing with the wildings had the brothers not happy at all, and even if I almost cried in that part, I understand why they did it. He forgot about the realm. (hide spoiler)]

Lol at your point 14! It is true!

*SPOILER FOR A DANCE WITH DRAGONS* (view spoiler)[Still, I don't think the way they handled his death was honorable, at all. It was a dirty trick they did there. But regardless whether what Jon did was wrong or justified, I think it doesn't matter in the end, because I don't think he is fated to be a Brother of the Night's Watch. He is more important than that, and I hope that after this ultimate battle is done he won't try to stay on the Wall for the rest of his life. In the vows it says his watch will not end until "his death," well, he's dead now! It has officially ended for him, I think. He is now free to do other things like pursue Ramsay Bolton, rescue "Arya," run Winterfell until one of his siblings takes the throne, and be a hero. Although I respect the Night's Watch, I think living a life like that is hard, and I think Jon has mentioned several times in his thoughts that he truly desires to be lord of Winterfell and have a family, etc. It's his bastard status that keeps him from pursuing that. (hide spoiler)]

*SPOILER FOR A DANCE WITH DRAGONS* (view spoiler)[I thought the same thing! His watch has ended, so I think he won't be seen as an oatbreaker. But I think as soon as he comes back something big must happen for him to leave the Watch. Or maybe he thinks fuck all of you who stabbed me. I don't know, but I think like you do, he will have a much bigger role in the end of the story. And I do hope as well he doesn't come back to the Wall. Maybe, if they defeat for once and for all the Other, maybe the Wacth won't exist anymore. And I do think it is a really hard life up there, I wouldn't want Jon to live his there. Also I want him to have children, I want him to fall in love (I never thought he loved Ygritte) and love himself a little more. Lol I just love him and want him to be happy.
Also, in other note, did you read that theory about Jorah being the one who saves the world? It's interesting though, and that he would have to put a sword through Daenerys heart? I'll leave you the link, there are 7 theories in case you haven't read them: http://www.dorkly.com/post/75537/game... Jorah's the last one! (hide spoiler)]

*SPOILER FOR A DANCE WITH DRAGONS* (view spoiler)[I'm glad you agree! I never thought he loved Ygritte either. There is a big difference between loving someone and having sex with someone you like, and I think the show really overdid the two of them together. In the book anyway, I think Ygritte's role was to be the prime wedge that got Jon in with the wildlings, that and so he can know a woman so he can truly understand how hard it is for a man of the Night's Watch to keep true to his vows, and she is his "teacher," lol, possibly in more than one area in his life. Cough, mostly the bedroom, cough. I really hope George Martin is kind and lets Jon have a wife and kids by the end of the series, with who, I don't know, just someone good for him. I too am hoping that after the big final battle the Wall will no longer be needed and hence the Night's Watch will disintegrate. Can you imagine the mass flooding that would happen if the Wall just melted?

I also like how you said he should love himself more. I think he will when he realizes he's part Targaryen, and (I really hope!!!) maybe not even a bastard either! Of course I think he'll go through a phase where he's angry at Lord Eddard Stark for lying to him, to everyone, but if Catelyn is there she probably will do her best to be a mother to him after she finds out. I like Catelyn a lot, even more after my second reading, and I can just see her feeling extremely guilty when she finds out Jon is actually her nephew. Like that one chapter where Ned wonders what Catelyn would do in a situation where her kids were threatened. It really made me think...what if Jon is in a situation where he is honestly trying to do a good thing, but one of her kids stands against him, like Rickon trying to kill him? What would Catelyn do in that situation? Which side would she pick if she had to save only one, and she knows her own son is at fault? I'm not saying Rickon is fated to be evil, though I have heard some people theorizing that he will turn out to be a bad apple, I was just throwing out an example. I think it would really say something about Catelyn if she ends up helping the boy she has always hated over her own son, because she knows it is right; preferably before she finds out Jon is Lyanna's.

I haven't heard of that theory; I'm sure there's lots of theories I haven't heard of yet! I'm not sure if I'll have time to read them today, but I'll definitely be sure to look into it! :) (hide spoiler)]

*SPOILER FOR A DANCE WITH DRAGONS* (view spoiler)[Totally. The show made it seem so much more than it was. And I remember he thinks at some point "it was good to leave her, it was wrong to love her", but I don't think he loved her. I don't think he would have left her if he did, because what is honor compared to love? (quoting Maester Aemon) But I think in the books you can tell he didn't love her. I do think he had a really big crush on her, but wasn't in love. Huge difference. And lol at the teacher references, haha.

And I do hope the Night's Wacth desintegrate, and the wildlings form part of the realm. And honestly, I can't even imagine how many water would flood. Maybe it will form a river or something and some character names it, lol. But I do think at the end the white walkers will be defeated.

I do think he needs to love himself, and it's logical what you said, he'll be mad at first, who wouldn't? But I think he'll understand. ned did it to save his life after all. Wow, I like that example you gave. It would be interesting to see how that would turn out. And definitely, I am seeing how a good character she is this second time. She is fair, but she also loves her children, so it would be quite a situation. But I do think, if she finds out, she would even say she is sorry for how poorly she treated him.

Yeah, no problem! I had trouble keeping up with my life and commenting, so I am responding now, sorry! Did you have the chance to read it? (hide spoiler)]

I haven't had the chance to read them yet but I will today, since I have some time. I'm like you; I'm having a bit of trouble balancing my everyday life and commenting on here. I'm just so happy I managed to catch up!

It was a huge thing when I catched up as well! But I have a final this week, and I don't like to reply without reading carefully. But when you have a lot to do it gets hard to do everything.

Okay, I read all 7 and some of them I hadn't thought about and I like, others, not so much. I kind of like the Jorah theory...but he just doesn't come across as a very important character, to be honest. I don't know, but thanks for the mention!

I think because he is not a very important charcter, it would be cool at least a part of the theory was true. It's not something I ever thought, so it would be interesting. You are welcome!