Read a Classic Challenge discussion

Thank you to Powder River Rose for offering to lead a group book for April. The following is her introduction to the book.

The book we will read:

The Martian Chronicles by Ray Bradbury

Start Date: April 1st
End Date: May 10th

Inkmesh Ebook Finder

Also, I've found a little fun for everyone. This link is a review quiz provided by Sparknotes (permission given); there is no need to sign in/up, just take the quiz and if you would like, let us know your results.

http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/martian...

Get your books ready, the story of Mars is waiting to be heard.

Hello group. Hope everyone is getting their book ready. I happened to find a copy at a local second hand/thrift shop for my husband to read...believe me this was a feat unto itself as he is all western and military history. His view of scifi is star trek or star wars. He's promised to give me a review which I will share with everyone; but as he's quite the comedian it could be, well, different. I myself will be listening to the audio version.

On facebook I started early with a question, just to get the ball rolling...it's easy and just for fun.

Q1. Is Ray Bradbury still alive?

And a new question:
Q2. What was the first Bradbury book you remember reading?

x-posted on facebook

Ray Bradbury died in 2012. I loved his old television series!

I believe the first book I read of his was Something Wicked This Way Comes. Very creepy!! A great story to read for Halloween.

I don't know if I'll be able to get to this one, but I'm sure it's good!

Welcome everyone to The Martian Chronicles reading/discussion group. This is my first time reading the book or for that matter anything by Ray Bradbury and I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts on this sci-fi classic. I'm listening to the audio version narrated by Stephen Hoye.

Mars awaits so let's get to reading.

Here are my thoughts, having just finished it.

I am still trying to figure out what I think about this book. There were some very interesting moments, some eerie scenes, and some plot lines that went nowhere. Without giving too much away, there is definitely a concern about the vices of human society which was disturbing at times. This was especially true of the chapter from the perspective of a racist. Jury is still out on this one.

So far I'm on page 43 (19% finished) and I'm really enjoying it.

Well I wrote this veeeerrrrrry long discussion piece and well, for some reason the site said it had a problem saving it. I can't write it again yet, I'm not sure I can remember all of it. Maybe by some twist of fate it will show up.....yeah right. I'll try to redo tomorrow. But I did finish and enjoy it.

Out of 26 questions on the spark notes quiz I missed 2.

John wrote: "Here are my thoughts, having just finished it.

This was especially true of the chapter from the perspective of a racist."

John, I couldn't figure out what you were talking about here but when I was checking the book I bought my husband for something, I saw the chapter, omgosh I couldn't believe it. And then it was omgosh, I can't believe that this chapter is not included in the narrated "unabridged" version.

I'm only on page 92, (36%) but am still liking it. I haven't gotten to the chapter from the perspective of a racist yet.

Rachel wrote: "I'm only on page 92, (36%) but am still liking it. I haven't gotten to the chapter from the perspective of a racist yet."

I'm glad you're liking the story. I just had time to glance at the written chapter in question...it's pretty explicit. Wow. Since that chapter is the only reference to any of the people within the chapter, it's easy to see how they could have left it out of the narrated version. I'll wait to expand on this until after you finish.

I think I got to that chapter because I was like that's in your face. Then I remember this is a classic and the time period he wrote it, as well as look at it as the view of ethnocentrism instead of racism. I'm only on page 122 (46%), I will get reading...

I finished the book. I'd say I enjoyed about 75% of the book. Some of it I wasn't fond of or it kind of bored me but over all I did enjoy it.

Rachel wrote: "I finished the book. I'd say I enjoyed about 75% of the book. Some of it I wasn't fond of or it kind of bored me but over all I did enjoy it."

I'm glad you enjoyed the story. I did too especially when the racist chapter was left out, I still enjoy the story though I don't really understand what meaningful purpose that chapter served; unless he mentioned it at some point in the past we will never know now.

As you mentioned this is a classic and considering the time it was written that chapter probably made sense to the readers and possibly he was of the opinion that circumstances would never change.

Because the world had recently finished a war and many sci-fi books were being published featuring dystopian societies in large part due to that war, this book follows in those footsteps just taking it a step further.....into space. It seems a natural choice to depict an impending war and escape from governmental injustice and chaos into space. In reality there is no where else to go if we blow up the planet.

The first chapter was fairly predictable once you figured out that the humans where coming and the martians were the characters. At the time of its publication crimes of passion were, while not commonplace, acceptable in the eyes of many.

The 2nd through 4th chapters were sad but surprisingly well played out. And 2 and 3 while having the same deadly endings were very different which was nice. With 4 I have to say it's still amazing to me how one small virus, germ, bacteria, etc can wreak havoc on an unsuspecting people.

I would have thought that humans would have taken over the martian cities but it must have been too eerie to do so. I was disheartened by the destruction of the martian cities by some crazy or mad humans but just as General Napolean's men in Egypt or countless other explorations of other cultures before and after.....disregard for and destruction of the past is ever present even in the most well-intentioned.

Johnny Appleseed or Benjamin Driscoll was a pretty cool guy. I enjoyed seeing the planet come alive in just one rain. I wonder how earth plants fared with the rest of the martian weather.

Now Stendahl's haunted mansion was awesome and what a way to payback those who destroyed pieces of history. It's incredible how some folks can so easily be led to slaughter--just by feeding the egos of the self-important they chose not to see his contempt of them.

It was horribly sad to "witness" the death of the martian. Later arriving humans just never really attempted to understand the martians, but then I guess the reverse was also true of the early martian/human relations. I was most appalled that when he died not even Mr. Spaulding bothered to pick him up and give him a burial; even after all he had done for folks, his body was just left on the dock like garbage.

Parkhill was an idiot....even his wife thought so, and the land deed was a great portrayal of the martian's sardonic "humor."

Oh, going back a bit. I thought the night meeting with Tomás and the martian was quite good. What I liked best was that neither of them could see either the past or the future....hmmm that may not make sense. Even though I would have wished Tomás could have seen what Mars (or Tyrr) had been like I'm glad the martian could not see what the future held.

And the party with the priests. Beautiful.

Why would you go back to Earth? They left there to find a freedom only to go back to death, it doesn't really make sense to me.

Walter Gripp and Genevieve.....the chapter was well done and I'm sure Walter made the right choice.

I'm glad Capt. Wilder made the choice to keep the family "alive." What a genius Hathaway was.

My husband didn't realize that the fully-automated house was in CA after the atomic bombs hit. He was a bit confused until I told him that. I wonder if the audio version made that clearer. That house was soooo......strangely scary. Techno-cool. I can almost imagine an emotionally vacant family.

The ending was again predictable but good. For a happy ending, I'm going to believe that the other families made it out of Earth and to Mars.

I have to say that overall the book was enjoyable and worth the read. The audio version had a great narrator-Stephen Hoye. I enjoyed listening to him as he truly gave the story life. In all honesty I can't say I'm terribly sorry the racist chapter was left out, than again I don't think that deleting chapters we don't like is good practice; basically it's not much different than book bans or burnings.

DON'T FORGET to follow the link at the top of the thread to sparknotes and take the fun, and short, quiz. That's really when I noticed the chapter having been left out. I missed 2 questions.

Powder River Rose,

When it comes to those racist chapters and I say more than one because there are a few, especially with the "fathers", which I found myself rolling eyes, because it's typical behaviors for changing a society, our histories are full of it.

I really think when looking when Bradbury wrote the book it in the 1950s and this is when the race was on with Russia. America was very much against communism and such movies like Invasion of the Body Snatchers were made to show how bad communism was. That is why I suggest it as an ethnocentric view. It's propaganda for "Go USA". The space race was a huge thing during this time, heck, Russia was sending out people in space not really knowing how to get them back safely. Germany started building rockets and ship in the 1930s. So, I do see why Bradbury had that chapter in the book. It was relevant for the time.

Forgot to mention, when Bradbury wrote the stories, it was after big wars like WWII with Germany and then Japan. Also, the were the start of the Cold War with Russia and I feel that is why there is such an undercurrent of war.

I also felt it was kind of funny the Martians did die out with viruses, it was very The War of the Worlds(ish).

Here are a few thoughts I had in regards to the different versions of “The Martian Chronicles” and the discussion of race in classic science fiction.

There are very few early science fiction books that deal directly with race, so it is interesting that Bradbury included it. The language ("N" word) and perspective of a racist man in that chapter are shocking. I have issues with the use of that word. I think Bradbury meant it as a commentary on society, but it is still hard to read. It might have made more sense if it wasn't confined to one chapter. That may be why it was removed in the later post 1997 editions. However, I can’t completely write it off as an aspect of that time. Contextually, I can understand it, but if I did that with everything, I would be ignoring how society is partly defined through the culture and literature of the past. As someone who tries to be aware of race in my own life and who has often discussed it academically, I find myself struggling with such references. I am not a fan of censorship and value the original works of authors. Despite that, I struggle with how popular this book has been over time, especially since the revised version only arose in 1997. I know that such issues are not new to readers, as reading is a great way to better understand society and challenge our own notions. I would say that avid readers, book groups such as ours, or students who may read it in a classroom, can delve into the issues critically. However, I wouldn’t want anyone to read it uncritically or just accept it at face value.

The lack of race or the limited roles of multicultural characters in other works of the era are also telling. There isn’t much of a discussion of race is Asimov. I don’t have much positive to say about Philip K. Dick’s Black portrayal of black characters, or women for that matter. In “Alas, Babylon” the racism of the time is blended with the need to band together to survive. In “Earth Abides” the narrator considers staying with a black family because he looks on them as inferior and could be their “king”. Sadly these perspectives are present in many books considered “classic” literature (Robinson Crusoe, The White Company, etc…) or even children’s literature (Bedknobs & Broomsticks, etc…). One of the more interesting science fiction accounts of race that I have read was the “Lathe of Heaven” which dealt with the importance of race in one’s identity, and the complications of having tried to remove it from society. I have yet to read Octavia Butler, but I have several of her books on my “to read” wishlist.

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John,

I totally understand what you are saying. Many people feel uncomfortable about certain words, it creates feeling of bias, assumptions, and judgements. For one of classes in Human Development (I'm currently doing Master in Human Development with Specialty in Social Change) many of our topics touch on the deeper meaning of what it's like to be female, and/or a minority and the different realities your face with it. As a female and a minority in America and have a double whammy in how my view is, I not only have to watch for myself as a minority but I also have to look out for my safety as a female which a Caucasian male would never have to worry about, which we discussed in length of, how guilty they feel and unconsciously. It really made me aware of my actions, what I do, biases, assumptions, and judgements.

Taking this into account literature during a time of war, cultural turmoil (beginning of race riots and social revolution), space races, etc., we have all that we have worked so hard for tossed right back in our faces. It's an ugly mark in history but a very important reminder. I'm not a fan of censorship and we need these reminders of our past and history. It was apart of the time and I feel important to show this was the viewpoint, even if something we are uncomfortable with.

I too not feel comfortable with the "N word" and would never use it. It brings up horrible emotions. For each person they will react differently from their own personal perspective, for me it's a bias. I know when people say it makes me feel like they are ignorant. This book was still in the time period where African Americans has to sit in the back of the bus, that they had separate restaurants, bathrooms, and shops. It's a reminds of the ugly we had in our history and the viewpoints for that time. It for sure doesn't make it right.

My understanding is that Bradbury used the Martian Chronicles as a type of "realist" response to the Edgar Rice Burroughs type of Mars that dominated the popular imagination of the early/mid 20th century. Therefore, we have chapters like "Way In the Middle of the Air" which makes a point of saying that Mars itself is not going to solve problems like racism and war. Rather, we need to think about how something like the inclusion of a second habitable planet changes our one-planet problems. Interestingly, Bradbury did not consider this book to be science fiction (I think he only conceded that label to Fahrenheit 451).

David, Martian Chronicles was Bradbury's first book and from what I know, he was down on his luck, his wife was pregnant and they sleep at the YMCA. I too read that he didn't view this as a Science Fiction.

I just finished this book, and enjoyed reading it very much. I have never read any of Bradbury's work before.

It appalled and saddened me to see how humans behaved when visiting/invading/inhabiting another planet. However, the emotions raised by the 'racist' chapter passed me by entirely. Maybe it is because I am in the UK, where we did not experience the same deep emotions as in the USA, so even the way people were saying how the 'n' word upset them just made me wonder 'why?'. I am conscious, however, how for some people it is a really built-in kneejerk reaction. I was more embarrassed by the way that one set of people treated another set of people.

Rachel,

As someone with a master's and Ph.D. in Higher Education, I greatly appreciate the Human Development angle. I definitely think our viewpoints are always evolving. I can see that in my own views on race which evolved from my master's thesis on ally development to my dissertation on multicultural competence. You also made a very good point about the intersection of different identities and how this impacts on issues of oppression, which are often only viewed through one lens. Thanks for sharing your perspective and good luck with your studies.

Ros,

You bring up an interesting point in how issues of race are viewed differently throughout the world. It is important to question our own assumptions and studying in England and Scotland were among the first times that I was ever challenged to question my own views as an American. Such differences in perspective were raised recently by Samuel L. Jackson in relation "12 Years a Slave" and his perception of how differently that might have been viewed if proposed by an American, rather than a British director.

I don't know that I can adequately explain how volatile the use of the "N" word is in American culture or it's complicated history. The use of that word and its variations gets into a variety of intergroup (between group) and intragroup (within) group dynamics which are messy. It is a racial slur, which comes with a ton of historical/cultural baggage. I don't speak for everyone, but my perceptions are that the use of the word by someone who is not Black is completely unacceptable, and in many cases is akin to dropping a verbal "grenade" into the conversation. There are no, or arguably very few, instances where such use would be ok. In most instances it can be viewed as hate speech and can immediately make someone,who identifies as Black, feel uncomfortable, unsafe, or oppressed. At the same time there is debate over the use of that word among and between Black Americans. Within the African American/Black community some may argue that the term can be "taken back" or re appropriated (use in rap, etc...) while others, such a the NAACP have sought to "bury" the word due to its legacy of oppression.

Although I may be oversimplifying things, I think that there are several ways in which literature interacts with race both subtly and blatantly. Some works deal with issues of race, racism, oppression directly in the story line. There are some that mention it in passing. And lastly there are certain stories that knowingly or unknowingly (because of historical context, prejudice, obliviousness, etc...) demean or treat people in an inhuman or inferior way based on racial characteristics. While I believe that Bradbury was attempting to use the chapter in question to make some social commentary, the use of the "N" word and its loaded context, instantly raises some of the issues of that last category, whether it was his intention or not.

There are a great many viewpoints on this topic and I hope that the articles I am linking below might shed some further light on these topics.

To start with, here is an interesting article specifically about Bradbury and Race that mentions the chapter.

Black people on Mars and Ray Bradbury

Here are some articles about the use of the "N" word.

Straight talk about the N word

Who can use the N word? That is the wrong question.

Is it ever okay to use the N Word?

Wikipedia's entry on the "N" Word

I hope that these help to better understand the use of that word.