Indie Book Club discussion

I could really use some feedback on what writers might feel OK paying for a certain kind of book. I need to give my cover designer the price within a couple of days.

I'm both a lawyer and a writer, and am getting ready to publish a reference book for writers about the law. (It's called Closest to the Fire: A Writer's Guide to Law and Lawyers.) It's well over 600 pages, and is meant as a place to look up particular topics as well as to browse for topics that could provide good story material. The minimum price I can pick and still make a pittance on B&N's online store is $22.99. I'm wondering whether writers who found the basic idea of interest would be willing to pay $23.99 or $24.99 for such a book.

I promise I won't take any opinions expressed as any sort of promise to buy the book, at the suggested price or any other! :-)

Hi Karen,

Is your book in print, or only digital?

In print, for a good reference book, it could be reasonable, though I find it high if the book is self-published.

If it's an ebook, it's definitely too high, even for 600 pages.

The link below might help, though it's related to fiction.
what price for your ebook

Maybe you can start with a lower price, and increase it if the sales are good?

Have you tried checking Amazon or B&N for the same kind of books? You'll see what's what.

I'm talking about the paperback -- I should have specified that. The ebook will be much less, perhaps $5.99. The book is self-published, but with professional cover and formatting (and professional, as in lawyerly, content...).

Which "it" did you consider potentially reasonable? $22.99 (which is the lowest I can pick), or one of the higher options?

I think for a trade paperback reference book with that many pages with reliable, professional content by a qualified and knowledgable author, $24.99 sounds reasonable, as does $5.99 for the ebook. In fact, with the ebook you might even be able to go to $6.99 or $7.99 (I've seen other reference books for writers priced in that range).

Oh, and, what trim size are you using for the book? If you can go a little bigger trim size and still be in the standard sizes, that can save you some pages and some of the manufacturing cost.

I'm in 6x9, which is as big as I felt comfortable with.

Karen wrote: "I'm in 6x9, which is as big as I felt comfortable with."

Yeah, it'd be hard to go bigger than that. Must be a lot of good stuff in the book!

(I write other-world fantasy, so unfortunately I'm not really in the market for a book like yours, but it sounds like something that would be really useful for a lot of authors. Good luck with it!)

Thanks, Kyra! (If you ever venture into the legal systems of your fantasy worlds, I'd love to see what you come up with!)

Kyra wrote: "Karen wrote: "I'm in 6x9, which is as big as I felt comfortable with."

Yeah, it'd be hard to go bigger than that. Must be a lot of good stuff in the book!

(I write other-world fantasy, so unfortu..."

hi karen!

what discount price are you using? if you aren't already, you might think about going with a very low discount rate, 30-35%, so that you can make the same profit with the lowest price.

since you are targeting indie authors, i think you are safest going as low as you can. in my experience, indie authors, myself included, are reluctant to pay trade prices for indie books.

Using my printer/distributor's calculator, I plugged in 6x9, perfectbound, b&w, paperback, white interior paper, and a full color gloss cover with 600 pages, and used $17 as the list price with a 30% discount. your profit would be $3.20 per book, which is really, really good.

If you want to keep the book $23, you might want to go with a case laminate hardback cover instead--entering all of the same information but choosing a full color gloss case laminate hb cover, you would make $2.30 per book, which is still really good. 600 page technical books are often hardback and people might feel like $23 is worth it for a hardback book, when they wouldn't for a paperback.

with your eBook you can fiddle with the price as often as you like, so it's safe to start high, you can always go lower, but with the print versions, you are stuck with whatever price you start with. for me, it is better to be stuck with a price that sells even though it has a lower profit per book, than a price with a higher profit per book that doesn't sell. i made this mistake, myself =(

even though i just released To Thee Is This World Given in june, i'm already in the process of releasing a second edition, partly because the print prices are too high. I thought my printer/distributor required a 55% discount, but it doesn't. it allows any discount above 30%. By lowering the discount to 30%, I can lower the print prices by $3 on each for the same profit margin.

in my experience, book buyers pay very little attention to page counts over 300 pages. They seem to be more concerned with page counts under 200 pages. the lower the page count, the more standoffish they get about price. over 300 pages, it seems like people just say, "trade paper costs 9.95, so indie shouldn't cost more than 4.95; trade hard costs $17.95, so indie should cost more than $12.95" (tbh, i would be surprised if indie hb's sell that high).

i hope this helps! congrats on your book--very best wishes for a successful and profitable launch!

khel

Khel, what printer are you using? I've kept life simple by going with CreateSpace for the paperback, and the minimum price I can use for the book is $21.80 or so. They don't do hardbacks. I haven't wanted to tackle the learning curve of one of the other POD printers while also editing and formatting this monster. There's also no discount issue for the simple, if unfortunate, reason that bookstores don't generally carry CreateSpace books.

As for profits, I'd be making over $5 a book on Amazon with a $23.99 price (which is what I've settled on for now, since I posted my message).

I might, at some point, bring out a hardbound edition with one of the POD printers through whom one can get bookstore placement -- and I'll price it higher.

As for the ebook, I'm thinking of somewhere between $5.99 and $7.99.

Thanks for plenty of food for thought!

Khel wrote: "hi karen!

what discount price are you using? if you aren't already, you might think about going with a very low discount rate, 30-35%, so that you can make the same profit with the lowest price.
..."

i use lightening source/ingram spark. they're great.

their quality is awesome, they are simple to use, and you can still use createspace/KDP for your eBook.

they'll upload the print format(s) information everywhere for you (amazon, b&n, baker & taylor, ingram etc.).

everything ships just like it would for createspace--people place the order on amazon etc, and the book arrives at their doorstep. you can also order copies directly from them (which is good if you ever need a lot all at once), and if you do get a big order (2000+), you can switch to offset printing just by letting them know you want that order offset. i'm not sure, but i think i heard that amazon is actually using them to print and distribute their createspace books now.

$5 profit margins are very high in publishing (if you went with a traditional publisher you would be looking at about .80 per book). if you go with $23 for a paperback at LS/IS, you'd probably be making at least $5, maybe as much as $7...but if the price scares buyers away, it won't matter all that much =(

in the end though, you have to chose the price that you feel is right and are comfortable with.

as a lawyer too, i'm guessing you must have a lot of tax information in it to have so many pages. you're braver than i am that's for sure! there is no way i would publish a legal advice book!! but it's def. needed, so i'm glad someone out there is brave enough to do it =)

all the best! good luck!!

-k-

I do think Lightning Source/Ingram Sparks (related? separate? united?) will be my next frontier.

Khel wrote: "i use lightening source/ingram spark. they're great.

their quality is awesome, they are simple to use, and you can still use createspace/KDP for your eBook.

they'll upload the print format(s) i..."

Karen wrote: "I do think Lightning Source/Ingram Sparks (related? separate? united?)

they are two branches of the same company.