The Robin Hobb Collection discussion

Hi all, Em and I are starting a re read and analysis of Fools Quest. I will chop it into chapters 1-3, 4-7 etc, as there is just so much going on in the book. Please feel free to join in/comment.

Em wrote: "Great, I was just going to set it up - well done!"

Em,do you know how/ if we can do sub folders for the chapter?..If so could you please add! :-p

Em wrote: "Scarletine wrote: "Em wrote: "Great, I was just going to set it up - well done!"

Em,do you know how/ if we can do sub folders for the chapter?..If so could you please add! :-p"

Why don't you just..."
Good idea! :-p

Right first thoughts on chapter one.
- It struck me that all of the stuff Fool said to Fitz at the end of FA, where he said he wasn't a true white and fitz was not a catalyst...was complete B.S, just to piss the reader off! As we know that 'fool not being a true white and Fitz not being the catalyst' was never mentioned again- In fact , on finding out that Fitz had a daughter that his vision did not foresee, Fool insists he is the true white prophet.
- The things on the shelf in chade/Rosemary's tower room are all of significance- The outIsland elfbark was used-as was the dragon blood. I think that the 'little clay pots' with chades explosive compound in will be useful. Maybe the recipe will be skilled to Fitz and they will use them in Clerres.

Really liked that chapter one picked up immediately from end of FA. Always amazing that Fitz & Fool can fall back so seamlessly with each other despite long separation and near death. I enjoyed their quiet conversations and Fitz's unreserved care for Fool. Agree with you - thank goodness no more doubts about their roles as white prophet & catalyst! We meet Ash, a great new character. Fitz's dream of the wolves leave a lot for discussion.. I think. At face value, it's just a dream about Nighteyes' past. This would be the first of two wolf dreams from Fitz in the book. Is he having prophetic wolf dreams? Is the cub Bee, the brother cub Dutiful and the sister cub Nettle? And they both die later? Yikes.

Alfred wrote: "Really liked that chapter one picked up immediately from end of FA. Always amazing that Fitz & Fool can fall back so seamlessly with each other despite long separation and near death. I enjoyed t..."

I took the wolf dream on face value-Nighteyes soul is still deeply entwined with Fitz-which is why Bee has wolf father in her too. Wasn't it just the dream about how how Nighteyes told Fitz he ended up in a cage in Buck Keep town market? As with everything in Hobbs books, there could be significance or red herrings a-plenty!

Yeah, it just seems interesting that Hobb would put this dream right at the beginning of the story. Maybe it's just to re-introduce Nighteyes and nothing more than that. Do you remember how many siblings Nighteyes had? I remember he had a brother but not a sister also...

Oh wow, I'm so glad someone mentioned that dream, as it was bothering me. I did a reread, and Nighteyes had two brothers, not a brother and a sister. I assumed that the sister and brother in FQ was an editorial mistake, but it could be something completely different, as Fitz does have three children. Doesn't bode well for Nettle and Dutiful if so.

Ash09 wrote: "Oh wow, I'm so glad someone mentioned that dream, as it was bothering me. I did a reread, and Nighteyes had two brothers, not a brother and a sister. I assumed that the sister and brother in FQ was..."

But I still don't get how the dream could be significant...the dreamer-fitz/nighteyes was one of the cubs too, so the fact there is a brother and sister cub shouldn't relate to Nettle and dutiful as they are his children, not his siblings...Maybe Fitz Mountain born mother had more children and he had a half brother and sister...but that would just take the story in another pointless direction. The mother cub was murdered/skinned-that could relate to Fool, but i really think the dream was just Nighteyes memory in Fitz.

The dream is the opening of FQ, so the placement gives it significance. Til now I'd assumed the brother-sister were editorial errors, but it's hard to believe a mistake of that magnitude right at the beginning of the book, involving a character as important as Nighteyes.

A memory of Fitz's childhood wouldn't be pointless, as Fitz's mother and pre-Buckkeep life are mysteries Hobb's been hinting about. So long as she doesn't go Martin and spend 500 pages on a detailed description of it, she shouldn't take the story in a pointless direction. It's also possible that she will leave Fitz's childhood as a series of hints, of which this is one.

Fitz's dreams are difficult to attribute, given his tendency to combine his self with others via wit and skill. The dream could be something he's seeing through Bee's mind, possibly mixed in with what he and she know of Nighteyes, who has been making a comeback via wolf father. The dreamer is of uncertain gender, "born last...smallest of all. My eyes were slow to open..." Those are all Bee, when compared to her "heartier and stronger" siblings.

Fitz is the unreliable character incarnate.

Ash09 wrote: "The dream is the opening of FQ, so the placement gives it significance. Til now I'd assumed the brother-sister were editorial errors, but it's hard to believe a mistake of that magnitude right at t..."

Agreed - "sister" is deliberate. So is "born last...smallest of all". The fact that this dream has no relevance with rest of the book makes me think it's pretty important later!

I can't believe Hobb will leave Fitz's mother unexplained if this is truly his last trilogy. Agreed there will be a tie back to Fitz origins later, and I look forward to that closure.

The "smoke" or smell that felt hot and suffocating to the cubs - can that be from explosives in Chade's workshop(Scarletine observed those little clay pots in earlier comment) mentioned a few times in book? That would destroy BuckKeep and all its Farseer inhabitants pretty quickly.

Let's also talk about chp two Lord Feldspar...

I found it interesting that when Fitz first saw the costume that Chade had left for 'Lord Feldspar' he thought it was a dress. The first time i read it, I wondered for a moment if a dress had been left for fool...as Hobb enjoys teasing us with his sexuality...and then wondered whether Chade expected Fitz to don a dress and do his own Lady Thyme (which would have been delightfully funny!) I was a little disappointed when it was actually a frock coat! :-)

Ok, I'm finally on it and on 5%! Just going to read your comments, I have a couple of my own:)

I'm not sure about the dream at the beginning of the book, I've read it quite a few times now and I'm still not sure of the significance!

When Fitz tells the Fool that he has a little girl - Fool is in complete denial, commenting 'No. Not in any future I saw did you have another child." He then asks him is he's certain the child is his?

I originally thought this was because they now move in a time the Fool never foresaw after his death etc etc - but is this because the Fool is 100% Bee's father and that's the reason why he didn't see Fitz having another child?

Em wrote: "I'm not sure about the dream at the beginning of the book, I've read it quite a few times now and I'm still not sure of the significance!

When Fitz tells the Fool that he has a little girl - Fool ..."

oooh, interesting... I think because bee has wolf father in her too, she is like the culmination of the perfect being that Fitz, Fool and Nighteyes were when they all merged in the quarry, when Verity was carving his dragon. But then, Dutiful was concieved by Fitz's body being the 'delivery method' so it wouldn't be beyond Hobb to use Fitz body again to be the method for Fool to concieve Bee without having sex.

Well, I always thought that, a mix of the three of them but just read that bit again and it made me think what if she is just the Fool's? It mentions somewhere, can't remember where, that she doesn't look like Fitz and he does find it difficult to bond with her, it's always awkward.

Scarletine wrote: "I found it interesting that when Fitz first saw the costume that Chade had left for 'Lord Feldspar' he thought it was a dress. The first time i read it, I wondered for a moment if a dress had been ..."

I did think as I read through, incidentally, that Hobb's use of clothing was very powerful in this book. The way the couture has shifted throughout the books - from dark age simplicity in Farseer, to I got the impression of some sophisticated high mediaeval in Tawny Man, and now to what I think is mostly meant to call to mind Enlightenment decadence, simply but powerfully conveys both the changing world and Fitz's sense of isolation and alienation from society.

Em wrote: "I'm not sure about the dream at the beginning of the book, I've read it quite a few times now and I'm still not sure of the significance!

When Fitz tells the Fool that he has a little girl - Fool ..."

He doesn't see himself as having a child, either, or does he? When Fitz brought him back to life, future changed. Anyhow, there's definitely something of Fitz in Bee, or the wolf father wouldn't make sense.

Anyhow, this is a lot like the Fool's parentage--he also had one mother and two fathers. Fitz's kids are a sad, sad tale: He helps Molly conceive Nettle, but her true father is Burrich. Verity uses Fitz's body to conceive Dutiful; Fitz gets to meet the kid years later. Then there's Bee, with whom he never really develops a very close relationship, and who is only 1/3 his.

And Hap, of course, his adopted son.
Plus, I think it's suggested he's only Nettle's father to the extent that he's Dutiful's father - i.e. bodily, not 'spiritually'. I think it's Nighteyes who was actually operating the body on that occasion (which I guess may be another part of why Nettle always used to see him as a wolf in her dreams).

I'm not sure I'd say he doesn't have a close relationship with Bee; by the end of the first book, I think it's close. It's a respectful relationship rather than a smothering one - I think they see each other as allies, rather than Fitz seeing her as an adjunct to him, or Bee seeing him as someone to worship - but I think by the end it's close.

Ash09 wrote: "Em wrote: "I'm not sure about the dream at the beginning of the book, I've read it quite a few times now and I'm still not sure of the significance!

When Fitz tells the Fool that he has a little g..."

God, when you lay it out like that it is so depressing. Poor Fitz. He does grind my gears sometimes with his self pity and indecision, but he has been given some bloody awful cards in the deck of life!

Oh god, i forgot about Nighteyes being involved in Nettle being concieved.

And wastrel, I agree. The detail Hobb goes into with the changing fashions has always fasinated me-if were into frock coats and a multitude of buttons and wigs, i'm thinking it's all looking 18th Century.

I was also relieved to see that there was not one mention of the over used 'Jamalian style' in this book (phew!)

Well, to be fair the button insanities were a little earlier in our world - 16th century* - but of course the Six Duchies didn't have the crusades, so things may be different (did they have buttons back in Farseer?)

The wigs and hats do indeed make me think 18th century - though that may partly be because I've recently watched Barry Lyndon. And I'm not usually excited over clothing and fashion, but that film has some remarkable hats in it. And they specifically included the "tilted on the side of the head" thing Hobb mentions:


*Fun fact: King Francis I of France once wore an outfit with 13,600 buttons. Too many buttons, man. "Buttons that did no buttoning," as I think Fitz puts it...

Wastrel wrote: "Well, to be fair the button insanities were a little earlier in our world - 16th century* - but of course the Six Duchies didn't have the crusades, so things may be different (did they have buttons..."

Yes, all those buttons would make a person crazy. No one wants to look like a pearly king or queen! :-)

Wastrel wrote: "And Hap, of course, his adopted son.
Plus, I think it's suggested he's only Nettle's father to the extent that he's Dutiful's father - i.e. bodily, not 'spiritually'. I think it's Nighteyes who was..."

Oh wow I'm so glad to find this place, as being an idiot, I never made the connection between Molly's "perfect" night with Nighteyes (Fitz) and Nettle's conception. Thank you for pointing that out. His noticing how intensely Verity used his body with Kettricken, and his desire for a bath afterwards were tragic, too. It'd be disturbing if his body was possessed, yet again, to make another baby :/ On the plus side, Fitz loves all three of the guys doing the possessing.

Scarletine wrote: "..when Fitz first saw the costume that Chade had left for 'Lord Feldspar' he thought it was a dress. The first time i read it, I wondered for a moment if a dress had been left for fool......"

Ha, I was "fooled" too.

Who knew this short chapter would inspire so much fashion observations. Nice pic Wastrel - hat angle is just right! The fashion has certainly evolved in Buck Keep, partly due to Kettricken's opening of the borders for trade and having two successive foreign queens. Chade became very fashionable too, after he came out of hiding. I think Fitz just prefers form over fashion, not necessarily because he is stuck in couture stasis. It’s probably hard to be dressed in the latest fashions when you also need to have little secret pockets sewn with weapons into your clothing. He couldn’t go after the killers after they killed the messenger in his study because he was wearing those damn Jamaillian pants! He has acquired a taste for well tailored clothes and had some ordered some while shopping for Bee and Fool.

Wouldn’t it be nice if Fitz finally begets a child through normal means for normal purpose with someone who isn’t somebody else?!

Anyone wants to start the ball rolling on chapter 3 Taking of Bee?

Alfred wrote: "Scarletine wrote: "..when Fitz first saw the costume that Chade had left for 'Lord Feldspar' he thought it was a dress. The first time i read it, I wondered for a moment if a dress had been left fo..."
I'm a costume fanatic, and the costume isn't quite 18th century. It's crazy. There's the wig with "brown ringlets," which would be 1660s-1740s, but the hat, which is described as a "soft bag," is not from that period. It sounds Italian Renaissance. The chunky heels on his shoes could be 18th century, but the curled up toes with tassels sound Middle Eastern. The coat, full enough to resemble a dress, could be late 17th-early 18th century, but the "dagged sleeves" are 14th, as are the buttons; people started to button things to death back then, whether they needed to be buttoned or not. Then there are the trousers with "cuffs of blue-and-white stripes," which sound like something a glamrocker from the '70s would wear with platform shoes. I'm assuming these aren't knee length, the way male trousers would be all through the 16th-late 18th centuries, as no stockings are provided, and Fitz, being Fitz, would have noted the short trousers, and the stockings.

lol. I'd love to see artwork of Fitz wearing this thing.

(TGIF!) Am happy Bee’s 1st POV picks up immediately from FA. This a pivotal moment, as Bee realizes her abilities and value to the servants. More importantly, Bee is learning to leverage her importance. She sizes up her situation quickly and comes up with nifty lies to help Shun (whether she truly helped Shun is debatable) and plays along with the mistaken gender. Fitz in the same situation might just try to kill everyone. She thinks, then acts. He acts then thinks.

Vindeliar seems to be a malleable but powerful being, like Thick. In fact, didn’t Thick say he can fog minds also? Imagine Vindeliar and Thick go at it mano a mano - “Don’t fog with me, I’ll fog you back!” is my imagined and improbable dialogue between those two....

This chapter surprised me the most in the portrayal of the villains. The Chalcedeans are the archetypical bad guys who rob, rape, raze and rampage without remorse. There are no nuances to their villainy. The servants are… more complicated. My original impression of the servants was influenced by the Fool’s description of them - which was cold-blooded evil murderous all-powerful malefactors muah-ha-haa... In truth, they did not want or encourage all that killing. They can be hurt, they are not all-knowing and they are not that magical (except for fog-boy). What they are is a cult fanatical about following the The Path at any cost, or rather, at no cost to their mission. They may be apathetic to the plight of Whithywood-ers but have no hesitation in piling themselves on the rapist at risk of self injury to protect the Unexpected Son. This mindless zealotry and lack of self-preservation makes the servants infinitely more dangerous than the Chalcedeans. I did not get the sense that Dwalia has any magics but her psychological hold on the luriks is spell-binding.

Apparently, Bee, Shun and Per (maybe) are not susceptible to fogging. We find out why for Shun later. Per (He lives! Did we ever doubt that?) is still a mystery to me. Perhaps Bee’s innate skill walls helped to circumvent the fogging. I never really understood why as a baby, she was so sensitive to Fitz’s skill and why Fitz could feel Bee strongly with the Wit. That’s quite the opposite of the Fool, who wasn’t sensitive to the skill and couldn’t be detected with the wit.

I think Thick would fog anyone in return for a pink sugar cake! :-p

I think Bee is so senstitve to the magics-skill and wit, that she has some pretty powerful walls-that only came down when she held hands with Fool.
I liked that, as you said, Bee worked out her situation systematically and realised who the bad guys/girls were, and what her options were. She knows far too much of rape and murder for such a little girl. I liked that she noticed with the Luriks-that they looked like siblings( which we know was from inter-breeding) and behaved like sheep. This is sure to be the servants plan for her if Dwalia ever gets her back to Clerres...breeding stock!
I think Per is Bee's catalyst and possibly a future love interest. I love that he would do anything for her!

Alfred wrote: "(TGIF!) Am happy Bee’s 1st POV picks up immediately from FA. This a pivotal moment, as Bee realizes her abilities and value to the servants. More importantly, Bee is learning to leverage her impo..."

ita the Servants are disturbing, but I'm having a hard time seeing these bovine, helpless, selfless people as the same ones who tortured the Fool's messengers and took pleasure in the Fool's torture.

It's all very strange, as the Fool wasn't so helpless. He was very strong--as strong as Fitz, possibly stronger, as Fitz says in Tawny Man. Fool is attached to his path, too, but he cares about the suffering he has to endure. He has a very distinct self, not to mention an instinct to preserve himself. Obviously this is not limited to the prophets, as the same must have been true of the Fool's messengers. The last one was rebellious enough to escape, to mind being used as breeding stock, and strong enough to drag herself to Fitz's door, even while being eaten from inside out by some nasty things.

I wonder if the servants can be freed instead of killed.

Scarletine wrote: "I think Per is Bee's catalyst and possibly a future love interest."

You think so? My vote's on Spark.

Ash09 wrote: "I wonder if the servants can be freed instead of killed."

Can't reconcile Fitz as a mass killer, just wrong. Chade, I can see.

Alfred wrote: "Scarletine wrote: "I think Per is Bee's catalyst and possibly a future love interest."

You think so? My vote's on Spark.

Spark? Or Ash?
[I think Per's being set up as the obvious love interest. Knowing Hobb, though, that probably means Bee's going to fall in love with Motley...]

I can totally see Fitz as a mass killer, incidentally. Poisoning the water supply murdering them all, that's totally something he would think of, and maybe do if he thought he had to - if Bee or someone doesn't hold him back. The difference between Fitz and Chade is that if Fitz murdered everybody, he'd feel bad about it.
[Chapeau to Hobb, incidentally, for make the reader care about Chade. I mean, the man's a stone-cold sociopath, not to mention a master manipulator who exploited, brainwashed, and drug-addicted the hero from infancy. He may be the most genuinely ruthless character I've read about. So why do I like him?]

About the luriks: first off, I don't think they're servants. Servant is a title, and I don't think the luriks have it (not sure even dwalia does?). And I don't think they're apathetic at all about the suffering - aren't they described as distraught and confused? I think it's just that they're impressionable, sheltered young people who have no idea what to do.

Plus, not only they but also the Servants as a whole seem to be badly out of their depth in the real world...

Wastrel wrote: "Alfred wrote: "Scarletine wrote: "I think Per is Bee's catalyst and possibly a future love interest."

You think so? My vote's on Spark.

Spark? Or Ash?
[I think Per's being set up as the obvious ..."

So there are hierarchies here, and we're seeing the most helpless and least self-directed with the luriks. Makes sense. Is Dwalia a servant?

Alfred wrote: "Scarletine wrote: "I think Per is Bee's catalyst and possibly a future love interest."

You think so? My vote's on Spark.

Ash09 wrote: "I wonder if the servants can be freed instead of killed."

..."

Fitz is already a mass killer. Remember the nightly outings he used to go on with poisioned food to lure Forged ones...he killed hundreds...possibly thousands...and in battle too, when his battle rage was upon him-he took no prisoners! Killing a few hundred servants- ones who tortured his soul mate and kidnapped his daughter...it's nothing to him. They don't stand a chance.

Scarletine wrote: "Alfred wrote: "Scarletine wrote: "I think Per is Bee's catalyst and possibly a future love interest."

You think so? My vote's on Spark.

Ash09 wrote: "I wonder if the servants can be freed instea..."

I think it's different. The Forged, he could defend as either defending the country or as euthanasia. The battles were self-defence, against killers. Massacring a city of women and children and serving maids and so on... that would be quite something else.

I'd agree with that analysis of the servants. In any hierarchy, the corruption spreads from the top down. The luriks might be baffled by the world but Dwalia is ruthless in wanting to climb the ranks, and I think as we go on, her kindly mask will slip more and more until her viciousness is fully revealed.

I can easily see Fitz killing a city full of people. Especially if he's got his assassin's head on. It was always ambiguous how many people he killed for Shrewd in cold blood, but we know he did it. And he was taught to suspend his conscience for his king, I think he'd be capable of doing something similar for Bee and the Fool.

As for love interests, there's no knowing! Wouldn't surprise me if Per ended up with Patience, the stable girl.

Scarletine wrote: "Alfred wrote: "Scarletine wrote: "I think Per is Bee's catalyst and possibly a future love interest."

You think so? My vote's on Spark.

Ash09 wrote: "I wonder if the servants can be freed instea..."
Forged are non-rotting zombies. Killing them is (imo) euthanasia, and Fitz feels guilty even doing that much. He goes berserker during battle, which means he's acting on instinct; it's a battle, his life is in immediate danger, and he's gone wolfie in self defense. Mass cold blooded killing he hasn't yet done.

I agree that, on the surface, he has motive in this case, which could turn him cold-blooded berserker (oxymoron lol): These people have kidnapped his daughter and tortured his beloved. Problem is that the Fool is back and healing fast, and I think Bee will join her dads sooner than later. That means Fitz won't be acting on instinct once he gets to Clerres, and, again, he's never killed large numbers of people in cold blood.

He might do so only if the ruling servants are totally evil (which they will be given Hobb's villains) and if the luriks are "forged," minds destroyed beyond healing. Otherwise, I think he'll resist mass killing, which would put him in opposition to the Fool. idk which way Bee will lean, but she might be the one to determine what happens to the people at Clerres.

Yes, remember he poisoned the entire guard company that Regal sent to capture him. That included a young man. ( I got he was around 13 or 14 years old.) Also, the books don't include all the jobs he has done for the family but alludes to there being more then what he has written of.