Jane Austen discussion

Take a look at my analysis here:
https://www.goodreads.com/author_blog...

Let me know what you think! Or post your opinion on this topic.

I agree with you. Elizabeth's refusal was the kick in the pants that Darcy needed; after that he improved his whole demeanor.

However, as he realizes later, he insulted her at length during his proposal, dwelling on the inferiority of her connections and the degradation he is enduring by proposing to her. Elizabeth has good reason to think that this is how he would speak to her during their married life – with reproaches and insults. Being Mistress of Pemberley would not compensate for this type of conversation. Even Mr. Collins said that he was aware of the limits of her financial situation and would never reproach her after they were married.

If I were Elizabeth, for this only, if not for anything else, I would have refused him. No matter have bleak your prospects are, you do not have to suffer being insulted. Period!

Darcy did not behave like the "gentleman" he is *supposed* to be with that first proposal.

I can't blame Lizzie for turning him down, but everything he said was quite, quite true, but that's still no way to make an offer.

Andrea (Catsos Person) is a Compulsive eBook Hoarder wrote: " but everything he said was quite, quite true ..."

Absolutely! It is not as if Elizabeth herself has not had all these thoughts herself!

Andrea (Catsos Person) is a Compulsive eBook Hoarder wrote: " but everything he said was quite, quite true ..."

Absolutely! It is not as if Elizabeth herself has not had all these thoughts herself!

Yes! But it's one thing to know it yourself and the other to hear someone (who is supposed to love you, btw) rub it up you nose in a condesending tone...like it's your fault and to show you that you were lucky to be chosen. NO WAY!

Yes, it wasn't kind for Darcy to embarrass Lizzie by mentioning her horrid family when he proposed.

It wasn't kind or gentlemanly to bring it up.

Lizzy did the right thing in refusing Darcy's first proposal.
Have you compared Mr. Collins's proposal and Mr. Darcy's first proposal? Of course the wording is different, but the attitude and condescension is very similar. If Lizzy had accepted Darcy the first time, it would be clear she was marrying for money, not character...and she would be a wealthy version of Charlotte Lucas Collins.
Just my thoughts...

Sarah wrote: "Lizzy did the right thing in refusing Darcy's first proposal.
Have you compared Mr. Collins's proposal and Mr. Darcy's first proposal? Of course the wording is different, but the attitude and cond..."

what do you mean a wealthy version of Charlotte Lucas?

Noirfifre wrote: "Sarah wrote: "Lizzy did the right thing in refusing Darcy's first proposal.
Have you compared Mr. Collins's proposal and Mr. Darcy's first proposal? Of course the wording is different, but the att..."

Charlotte Lucas accepted Mr. Collins's offer of marriage to secure a position for herself in society. She clearly did not love Mr. Collins, but was rather making a practical decision to avoid "old maid status." (No offense intended by this comment, just interpreting the society of that era.)

Now, Lizzy clearly did not love or even like Mr. Darcy at the time of the first proposal, but it would have been materially and advantageous if she had accepted his offer of marriage. (As Mr. Darcy haughtily points out, his offer was a once in a lifetime chance for getting to a higher societal level.)

Thus, if Lizzy had accepted Mr. Darcy, she would have been acting similarly to Charlotte Lucas.

Now, the flaw in my answer here...Mr. Darcy is generally imagined to be much better looking than Mr. Collins...so perhaps there would've been added incentive: large fortune & handsome guy. ;)

And not nearly so embarrassing or annoying, but I agree with you Sarah, the motivation would be the same.

Lizzie should not have accepted his first proposal, because she had stated that only the deepest love would get her to marry. At that point Lizzie did not love him, in fact she despised him. If she had married someone who not only (according to her) was a horrible person, but had ruined her sisters life, she would be an AWEFUL protagonist!!!!!!! She only accepted him the second time because she had fallen in love with him.

I Agee Glyn is it would not have been correct for Lizzy to accept Darcy at that time.

Sarah wrote: "Noirfifre wrote: "Sarah wrote: "Lizzy did the right thing in refusing Darcy's first proposal.
Have you compared Mr. Collins's proposal and Mr. Darcy's first proposal? Of course the wording is diff..."

hmmm, or perhaps she accepted Mr. Collins simply for marriage,any form of marriage. Of course Mr. Collins could provide but Charlotte was not worried about love but lizzy was, look at her statements concerning marriage.

Glynis wrote: "Lizzie should not have accepted his first proposal, because she had stated that only the deepest love would get her to marry. At that point Lizzie did not love him, in fact she despised him. If she..."

I must point out that Lizzie only said that in the BBC/A&E version, not in the actual book. So that characterization cannot be attributed to Jane Austen.

Victoria_Grossack wrote: "Glynis wrote: "Lizzie should not have accepted his first proposal, because she had stated that only the deepest love would get her to marry. At that point Lizzie did not love him, in fact she despi..."

Sorry about that! But she does show her preference to marriages of love, especially when Charrolette gets married.