Into the Forest discussion

This thread is for The Grass Dancer by Susan Power starting October 15!
Who will be joining in?

I think the 15th should work for me.

I will be joining; I'll probably begin around the 15th, as I have a couple more I need to read before it. I just need to dig it out of my boxes...

On my radar, I've got the book, hopefully should be able to join on time or a few days late at most

I'll do my best to join in on this despite my limited reading time.

But I probably won't get the book until a bit after the 15th, since the library will have to ship it to the branch near my work... I'm assuming it'll be at least a week.

I will be reading Grass Dancer with you starting the 15th or a little bit sooner.

I will be a few days late getting started. We've had some complications getting flooring installed in our new house, and so all of my books are still packed away. But everything should be finished tomorrow, and I'll unpack my books this weekend. I own this one, so it's lurking somewhere in those boxes.

Yeah, we are redoing our basement and somewhere there is my copy too.

Kathy wrote: "Yeah, we are redoing our basement and somewhere there is my copy too."

Margaret wrote: "I will be a few days late getting started. We've had some complications getting flooring installed in our new house, and so all of my books are still packed away. But everything should be finished ..."

Leann wrote: "I will be reading Grass Dancer with you starting the 15th or a little bit sooner."

Just started today! No worries Margaret and Kathy! It's never a problem starting later.

Renovations are disrupting, aren't they? Best of luck!

I've started this wonderful book. You all will pass me up in no time.

I'm still finishing up with The Turquoise Ledge: A Memoir but I'll definitely be done today = )

I got my copy sooner than I expected, though I'm going to finish off the last of my current book before starting a new one. I only have a couple of chapters left, though, so I should start this soon. (Hopefully.)

Starting today, I read some zines and a film mag yesterday to get all my extraneous reading over so I could be fully in the zone for Susan = )

I like the small size of these cheap USian books. Typically British books are larger, like C5 size, and relatively expensive

The epigraph from Joy Harjo is interesting - I'm pondering, why 'shush'? and why 'too many stories'? and why does the house have to be carried? Is she talking about what's left behind when people are displaced?

Leslie Marmon Silko also mentions Joy Harjo, as a friend, in The Turquoise Ledge, so I've added a book of hers to my list too = )

Zanna wrote: "Leslie Marmon Silko also mentions Joy Harjo, as a friend, in The Turquoise Ledge, so I've added a book of hers to my list too = )"

Joy Harjo's poetry is wonderful.

I've finished the book!

Just like in the Turquoise Ledge, there's no doubt that 'medicine' is real, ancestors are around, helping and directing.

I loved Pumpkin... = (

Zanna wrote: "I've finished the book!

Just like in the Turquoise Ledge, there's no doubt that 'medicine' is real, ancestors are around, helping and directing.

I loved Pumpkin... = ("

Yes, I too love Pumpkin. I really sympathize for Charlene having such a grandmother!
I am just a few chapters in, but there is no doubt in my mind that the magic is real.
I am glad that I read the stories by Zitkala-Ša so I am familiar with some of the figures like Iktomi, but there is so much more I'd like to learn.

Yes, having read those stories and her memoir enhanced my reading too :-)

I've read the first few chapters now, and I have a few thoughts.

I'm enjoying how these chapters feel as if they're short stories. They focus on a character, and there's an individual plot to each chapter, though still connected to other chapters. They could be read as stand-alone stories, to me, so I'm interested to see how these stories converge into one bigger narrative arc. In this way, it actually reminds me more of Love Medicine, though it's not as harsh a story, a very different in tone. But how the chapters are formed remind me of it.

I've also never read anything before that dealt with NA sexual customs. I just finished reading the chapter with Archie and Herod, about Alberta and the ghost of Clara, and I thought Alberta's and Herod's sexual relationship was really interesting.

Also, that teacher--Jeanette--kind of terrifies me. So unintentionally condescending!

Pumpkin's death is so heartbreaking and beautiful. I'm currently horrified by Anna's actions, and her daughter's fear and passivity... Jeanette... I hope she gets a clue and redeems herself.

Haha Jeannette is unbearably cringey, but maybe only because I am that annoying white feminist too. Where she says 'this is give and take and I intend to learn as much from you as you do from me, this sounds lovely to someone who's had a mind-as-bucket education, but actually rings as just a new style of extractivism. What gives her the right to receive their cultural knowledge? This approach is usually that of those feeding their own hunger. I believe her intentions are good though.

It reminded me of Love Medicine too, but here the attitude to religion is more comfortable for me as I have an antipathy to Christianity, although Erdrich does write Catholicism wonderfully and I can enjoy my discomfort around it being prodded.

I assumed that the sexual customs mentioned were particular to the Dakota people...

I've been wondering if it's necessary to start up a spoiler thread, what do you all think?
I certainly don't mind starting one!

Please let me know if the following is a spoiler and I'll hide it!

I just read the part where Anna takes her daughter Chrystal's baby away. The way she does it is really disturbing, drugging her and leaving her in Martin's Thunderbird. ( is there a significance of him having a Thunderbird, a car named after a mythical being? I think everything in this book is there for a reason). If one takes the magic as real, as I think it is, Anna is truly frightening. I also am thinking of the scene where Chrystal and Martin lose their virginity off the road, again this time on top of the Thunderbird, Chrystal sees a tree and thinks it's her mother watching her. Later on Anna says that she's seen them.
Is Anna really evil?

Margaret wrote: "."I've also never read anything before that dealt with NA sexual customs. I just finished reading the chapter with Archie and Herod, about Alberta and the ghost of Clara, and I thought Alberta's and Herod's sexual relationship was really interesting

I was wondering about that myself in regards to Herod and Alberta.

Also I wonder if there are stories in Sioux mythology of women with insatiable sexual needs who bewitch men.

I think Anna is completely selfish and drunk on her own power. I believe in her medicine completely

Zanna wrote: "Haha Jeannette is unbearably cringey, but maybe only because I am that annoying white feminist too. Where she says 'this is give and take and I intend to learn as much from you as you do from me, t..."

Yes, Jeannette is extremely cringy in the school scene, even more so in chapter 6, on page 168 (view spoiler)[When tries to go in the sweat lodge with the men and then throws her clothes out the car window (hide spoiler)] She's so embarrassing but I also have to admit I found the scene funny.

Zanna wrote: "I think Anna is completely selfish and drunk on her own power. I believe in her medicine completely"

So do I. But it's hard to sympathize with her at all because of all the grief she causes people. My heart goes to her daughter and granddaughter.

I feel with you Jalilah, she is very unpleasant and dangerous

I'm in chapter 6, where Anna seemingly wants to teach her daughter to realize her own power. Is this out of love or just continuing her legacy?

The spirit world being interwoven is fascinating and will tie this all together, looking forward to finding out how since my first reading was long ago.

Anna is disturbing. Part of me wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt in the first chapters, when people are gossiping that she steals men with magic, and harms those who threaten her offspring (even if they're not actually threatened).

But chapter 6 definitely makes me think she's evil. She is essentially raping these men, which is why I make that judgement. At least, that is if we take the magic seriously, which I do. Of course, it could be that (view spoiler)[ Calvin and Evie would've had an affair anyway, but if that affair is forced on them by Anna's magic, than that crosses the line. (hide spoiler)] Flipping through the book, I see there's another chapter from her pov, which is good because I want more insight into her character!

I do think Anna loves her progeny in a way, a way that is connected to her legacy. It's a selfish love, not a giving love.

Jeanette terrifies because she's so believable! I too am feminist and embrace the idea that there needs to be more diversity and respect of minorities, and I'm also a teacher. It's easy to imagine crossing the line between respect and condescension. She seems to worship the Dakota as being something better than human, doesn't see their humanity--with all its faults and layers--in her overzealous activism.

I loved the image of Margaret Many Waters dancing on the moon in her grandmother's dress:)

Margaret wrote: "Anna is disturbing. Part of me wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt in the first chapters, when people are gossiping that she steals men with magic, and harms those who threaten her offsprin..."

Leann wrote: "I'm in chapter 6, where Anna seemingly wants to teach her daughter to realize her own power. Is this out of love or just continuing her legacy?

The spirit world being interwoven is fascinating an..."

I think both. As heartless as she seems, I can't imagine Anna does not have any maternal feelings for her daughter. However she also selfishly wants to pass on her legacy to her Chrystal regardless if she wants it or not.
As Margaret says, it's a very selfish kind of love.
Have you all gotten to chapter 8? (view spoiler)[It's so heartbreaking to read about the death of first her husband, who she clearly loved and then her young son. I think this chapter offers some explanation of why Anna becomes what she is. She has been so hurt that she no longer allows herself to feel. That does not justify what she does to people, but it does offer some insight. Horrible how she killed her niece! (hide spoiler)]

Margaret wrote: "."I loved the image of Margaret Many Waters dancing on the moon in her grandmother's dress:)


I just loved that part too! It made me laugh!
Actually there are a few comic moments in this book! I also laughed out loud at Red Dress's English into Lakota translation of the sermons in chapter 9!

Jalilah wrote: "Have you all gotten to chapter 8?"

I read Chapter 8 and 9 last night. Yes, ch. 8 definitely sheds some light on Anna's character. I'm glad I got to see her before she turned! It's interesting how the characters react differently to loss, yet similarly at the same time. Especially considering that chapter 7 was about Lydia, I couldn't help but compare Anna's reaction to grief and Lydia's. They both seem to shut themselves off from the world, though in very different ways. And Anna doesn't seem to think of Lydia as a kindred spirit, despite their similarities. I was actually talking to a friend about this last week--how instant hate or dislike of a person can blind someone to a true friendship, or to help in times of trouble. Anna and Lydia have so much in common, but hate has blinded Anna to being open to anything but her own ego. Of course, her evil manipulations leading up to the accident with Lydia's husband and 'son' are indirectly related to their deaths, so I'm sure Lydia would not have been open to commiseration from Anna! But it's still interesting how blinded the characters are to the similar suffering surrounding them, and that includes all the characters, I think. If only everyone were more open about their feelings!

I only have 2 chapters left, and hope to finish tonight. It's a lovely book.

I finished it last night, and I'm so glad Charlene got some closure! I felt so bad for her. And the last chapter with Harley was a lovely close.

I like the optimism in Powers' writing--that bad things happen, yes, of course, but there's also a core of goodness to people and humanity. Except for Anna/Mercury! Maybe, rather than goodness, that there's always reason to hope for a better life, or a better way to approach life.

I plan on reading everything Susan Power writes!

I am behind all of you. I just started last night. I had forgotten how much I enjoy Power's prose.

You're not too far behind, Kathy. I just finished this yesterday!

I really, really enjoyed it though, despite my slowness in getting finished.

Zanna wrote: "Haha Jeannette is unbearably cringey, but maybe only because I am that annoying white feminist too. Where she says 'this is give and take and I intend to learn as much from you as you do from me, t..."

I think part of what makes her so cringe-worthy is that she wants to learn about their culture, but she insists it be on her terms. So, for instance, the sweat lodge. She wants to take part - but can't because it's not co-ed. So she insists that they allow her in to observe their traditions - but she'd be breaking those traditions to be able to observe them!

I'm glad she seems to have found a better balance by the end of the book.

I finished yesterday, actually too. So enjoyed it.

I did like Jeannette's character arc, even if it was somewhat forced upon her by Mercury!

Yeah! Her character arc was satisfying for sure... that's almost another irony, that she did so well out of it all

Oh just reading your comments properly as I'm writing my review Margaret - love your thoughts and agree, I've also loved the book completely

Finally reviewed! Sorry I didn't contribute usefully to this discussion! Somehow I didn't feel able to say much about the book while I was reading it
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

Great review! I especially liked your comments about 'hard learning.' Despite the magical realism, there's no miracles in this novel--it's all about how the characters learn to interact with the world and the people around them.

Also, as I was reading your discussion of Jeannette I suddenly remembered something from my undergrad years. I was taking an Intro to Teaching course, and the professor had taught for a decade on an Indian reservation. She was talking about her experience, and said we were the kind of people that Indian reservations needed to teach in their schools. And we were all white females (and two white males)! Haha, each and every one of us could've been Jeannette.

Margaret wrote: "I did like Jeannette's character arc, even if it was somewhat forced upon her by Mercury!"

Zanna wrote: "Yeah! Her character arc was satisfying for sure... that's almost another irony, that she did so well out of it all"

Yes, I did too. Not only that but she saves Charlene. In fact I am pretty sure it was Jeannette who sent her the letter with the newspaper clipping of her parents, right? And then afterwards to put her on bus. I was really happy to see Charlene escape from her grandmother. Poor girl, I felt so bad for her!

Zanna wrote: "Finally reviewed! Sorry I didn't contribute usefully to this discussion! Somehow I didn't feel able to say much about the book while I was reading it
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show..."

What a thoughtful review Zanna! So many great points!

Awww thank you Jalilah <333

Poor Charlene yes! Jeanette helping her was a double victory narratively = )

Jalilah wrote: "In fact I am pretty sure it was Jeannette who sent her the letter with the newspaper clipping of her parents, right? "

That's what I thought, too.

I loved this as much the second time around too. The living, moving culture makes me want to know what happens next.