Reading the Chunksters discussion

So now we're right in the middle of the story. How did you like the last week's part?

This time the narrative is linear, with longer chapters (one of them was even 23 pages long!), and takes part from January to April 1534, so it was much easier to follow. Unfortunately, I liked it less so I should have been more careful of what I wished for :). I don't feel I am on Anabaptists' side anymore in their anarchist struggles. The way they behaved in Munster was at times outrageous, especially after Jan Matthys' arrival. (Matthys' credo being "The Kingdom of God is a jewel that you can win only if you get your hands dirty with mud, shit and blood" ). Granted, they embraced the cause of the poorest and the rejected, but they acted like thugs. I'm seriously questioning the wisdom of Gert having chosen Matthys over Hofman in section 3. And anyway, "Munster is one of those places that give you the sense that something is bound to happen sooner or later" (chapter 26), so they all behaved as if they wanted to live and enjoy as much as they could before the end of the world.

Somehow, I was very surprised that Matthys died and at the way that he died. I remembered from the first chapter of the second part that Gert observed the execution of a prophet Jan in Vilvoorde. It must have been Jan von Leyden and not Matthys then.

I was also more troubled by the language in this section. It seemed so outrageously modern at all times ('cops', the jokes, etc.) that it prevented me from enjoying these chapters as a historical narrative, since I was constantly reminded that it is only an adaptation of the events.

I know that essentially what happened in Muster was nothing new compared to the previous struggles, yet somehow this time it seemed more futile (possibly by its repetitiveness) and I found it hard to sympathise with the Anabaptists when they awaited the end of their world, the bishop's forces coming and the Lutherans' betrayal. After all, that was what they had come to do: to get rid the rich and give everything to the poor. At one point, Matthys even forbade to use money!
And in the end, the mad Jan von Leyden became the next prophet, the same person who earlier claimed that "I was closer to God among my whores than all those literati, with a bad smell under their noses, the ones who came for a good servicing" (that was when he opened a whorehouse in Leyden). No wonder that Gert escaped, but I'm wondering whose cause would he embrace next. It's still 4 years till he arrives in Antwerp.

Have you been able to identify Q or at last, do you have a potential list of suspects? At first, I was pretty sure it was the mercenary Heinrich Gresbeck, a newcomer to the cause baptised by Rothmann. He quickly rose to a prominent role, but so far seemed loyal, and I assumed it was Q who managed to put the Lutherans and Anabaptists at each others' throats in the first place. Or have I missed something (or somebody)?

Hi Teanka! I am having serious troubles finding the time to post. So sorry these are so late! Thank you so much for continuing to host this read even with no participation! IT is much appreciated!

I like the narration better taking place at the same time. He is no longer flipping back and forth from "present" to "past" in telling the story, and is all in the past. It is much easier to follow and get involved in the story.

I agree very much that I am not on the side of the anabaptists, and I also agree because it is much with their methods. I don't know if it is meant to be this way, but the narrator does not do a good job of "selling" his side of things. I would much rather see WHY he is doing these things than just what he is doing.

Somehow, I was very surprised that Matthys died and at the way that he died. I remembered from the first chapter of the second part that Gert observed the execution of a prophet Jan in Vilvoorde. It must have been Jan von Leyden and not Matthys then.

I thought it was Jan van Batenburg that he saw executed, and I don't think that is either Matthys or von Leyden. There are so many Jans! But I looked up Batenburg when his execution was mentioned and saw that he was an anabaptist that led a bloody rebellion. I assume we might meet him later? Or I don't understand these Dutch names and they have multiple?

I was also more troubled by the language in this section.

The language doesn't bug me at all! I don't even notice it!

yet somehow this time it seemed more futile (possibly by its repetitiveness)

Hmm...I wonder if that was the point of telling us of the first rebellion in part 1? To make us realize the futility of all of this?

but I'm wondering whose cause would he embrace next. It's still 4 years till he arrives in Antwerp.

I think we still have some interesting stuff to see before Antwerp! I think the anabaptists are going to occupy his time up until then, so it will be the same cause.

I also assumed that Q was Heinrich Gresbeck. Q will seem loyal, remember that he tricked (I forget his name...it looked like Munster) by being seemingly loyal for years. I didn't see any other really serious characters in this one I don't think, so if that isn't Q, then he is playing it pretty low key here...which I also kind of assumed wasn't very Q-like!

Kaycie wrote: "(I forget his name...it looked like Munster)"
I just had to check his name in the book, Muntzer, and the city's name is Munster so easy to mix up the two.

Kaycie wrote: "I thought it was Jan van Batenburg that he saw executed, and I don't think that is either Matthys or von Leyden. There are so many Jans! But I looked up Batenburg when his execution was mentioned and saw that he was an anabaptist that led a bloody rebellion.
..."

Yes, you are right. I noticed it only later in the next part. Obviously, one Jan too many for me :).

Kaycie wrote: "Hmm...I wonder if that was the point of telling us of the first rebellion in part 1? To make us realize the futility of all of this?"

I don't think so, since Thomas Muntzer was the first 'prophet' and his uprising was the first one and much more important than the subsequent ones (from the historical point of view). So the story started in the beginning, so to speak.

Kaycie wrote: "Hi Teanka! I am having serious troubles finding the time to post. So sorry these are so late!
..."

Don't worry! I totally understand. I have the same problem with other discussions. Still have to post about The Luminaries and the time flies so fast.