North & South discussion

As promised, here is the thread for everyone to post their first thoughts and impressions, during the Group Watch and before the general discussions start up on the first of April. You may all use the thread in any way you wish; random thoughts and comments, a record of all your impressions, or just post notes on things you might want to discuss specifically later - anything goes. :)

And most importantly, have fun! :) I am very much looking forward to watching North & South with all of you over the next few days.

Right then, I personally have decided to post my First Thoughts in a sort of diary note format, so here goes. Also, I realize that some of my impressions below may seem slightly irreverent, or don't have the wealth of depth and sentiment I know you've all come to expect from me (:D). But I promise to be far more analytical and serious in the discussions! After all, this is only the first thoughts thread. :) Anyway, without further ado, my thoughts on Episode 1:

Episode 1 - Becca's Notes

~ *opens popcorn bag*
~ I love this soundtrack!
~ ...And Margaret’s dress.
~ Note to self: Figure out how to do Margaret’s hairstyles.
~ Gosh, Henry, what a thrilling proposal…
~ Wow, I’m sorry, but Mrs Hale just annoys the hell out of me.
~ Grrrr. Here is living proof that it isn’t just women who gossip incessantly. And these guys are so nasty about it – with Margaret listening too!
~ Thornton! Oh how I love that first shot of him, the little pieces of cotton floating through the air in front of him… And then he has to go and beat someone up. :( Ah well, it’s awesomely dramatic - not to mention, as we know, justified.
~ Awww, Higgins. So nice. :)
~ Margaret is very unfair to Thornton, I feel! Though of course she doesn’t know she’s being unfair, quite yet. And I always want to give him a hug after he talks about the fire he witnessed. Still, in Margaret’s defence, saying that they “met under less than pleasant circumstances” was just a teensy weensy bit of an understatement.
~ Ha, see! Stevens deserved it! See, Margaret, see?
~ That first scene with Fanny, Margaret, Mrs Hale and Mrs Thornton… it just makes me want to alternately giggle and cringe.
~ Ah, I have so much respect for Thornton in this scene. All those other masters are slimy bastards.
~ Forget the soundtrack, have I mentioned how much I love Thornton’s accent?
~ Oh, I simply adore the relationship between Thornton and his mother. It’s just so beautiful, how much they love each other, and that affectionate way that Thornton smiles at her. (No, Becca, you’re not allowed to start swooning over Richard Armitage/Thornton just yet… actually you’ve never swooned in your life, not literally, it seems a bit ridiculous… who cares, I know what I mean… Oh, shut up, Becca, shut up!)
~ …And Mrs Hale starts talking about the wallpaper. Wow, what a come-down from looking at Margaret and having their fingers brush… *sigh* Who would care about the wallpaper?
~ *sniffle* Someone give Thornton a hug! Now! (Or a handshake, either one would do…)
~ That final scene is so, so perfect. The music and Margaret’s voice-over always bring tears to my eyes, and visually it’s stunning. I mean, Richard Armitage/Thornton does cut an awfully impressive figure striding through the cotton mill.
~ *sigh* I love North & South. Clearly.

Episode 2 - Becca's Notes

~ Did I mention I love this soundtrack?
~ I also love how genuine all the actors are in this piece. They’re all so good, it never seems forced, or faked, or posed… it’s all just perfect.
~ That moment where Margaret asks about a strike, with Thornton standing right behind her… I think I’d just die of embarrassment. King of Awkward Moments, right there. Still, it's great how the following dialogue shows so clearly the difference in Margaret and Thornton’s outlooks.
~ Margaret and Bessie’s friendship is so sweet. It makes it so much worse when we’re reminded that Bessie’s ill, right after the two of them have been talking and laughing together.
~ Is it bad of me to enjoy seeing Thornton telling Fanny off so much? I think it’s great, though, the tone he uses with her... frankly I think she sometimes just needs a good slap.
~ Awww, poor Thornton, with that sweet, sad little smile, saying Margaret would never have him. The need for a hug is becoming imminent again…
~ That Union scene gives me the shivers every time, so poignant, and so sad that their proud determination will come to nothing. Because of course you know that the strike is never going to change anything, except for the worse.
~ Grrr… of course he puts his own view very eloquently, Margaret – as do you! You’re both intelligent people well able to express your own arguments. Jees. No need to hold it against him.
~ This scene with the workers leaving their posts always strikes a deep chord, especially that moment when the mill goes quiet. It’s so powerful symbolically, and just… sad. No other word for it.
~ Better looking than a bulldog? Um, hell yes.
~ Well, he hasn’t got a hug yet, but at least he got the handshake.
~ *covers face with hands* Please shut up, Mr Bell, please shut up!
~ Oh, that riot scene… Dammit, Richard, why do you have to be such a good actor? Good Lord, the look on Thornton’s face when he sees Margaret fall… here come the tears. Again.
~ Nothing could be more touching than the final scene between Thornton and Hannah. It was done so perfectly, it leaves absolutely nothing to be desired. “I daren’t believe such a woman could care for me.” …. Please excuse me while my heart breaks into a million tiny little pieces.
~ I still *cannot* believe that my Mother laughed – actually laughed! – when Margaret refused Thornton. I really do not trust myself to say anything about that final scene of Episode Two, because I’m sure if I now start I’ll never stop. So I’ll leave the outpouring of emotion until the discussions, where I’m sure someone will bring it up. In fact, how could we not discuss it?

Hahahahaha.....you made me laugh so much :)

Haha, thanks Samanta, I'm glad to have made at least one person laugh. :) I'm watching the other two episodes today, hopefully, so there might be a few more amusing comments forthcoming!

Love your notes, Becca! ;)
I stayed up pretty late last night watching all 4 episodes with my niece. I'll probably watch it again after the weekend, though, because we did quite a bit of discussing while we were watching it last night/this morning.

Thanks Aery! :)
I'm so glad you were able to watch it with your niece - did she enjoy it? Still, watching it again seems a good idea, I'm hoping to do the same within our allocated time period. :) I so can't wait to discuss it with everyone!

Great notes! Can't wait to discuss!

Lovely notes, Becca! You made me laugh a lot :) I can't wait to read the notes of the other episodes and of course to discuss with you all! ;)

Thank you Maria and Soph! :) It is very nice to know I am making people laugh, and very nice to be watching the series with you all (well, more or less...stupid time differences...). I should have the notes on the other Episodes up later today. It's so lovely to see everyone so enthusiastic about the upcoming discussions! <3

I hate time differences too! I'm about to go to bed... But tomorrow I will watch my dear Mr. Thornton and listen to his wonderful accent :) Love this group watch!

Have a wonderful night then, Maria. And have fun watching and listening to dear Mr Thornton tomorrow! :)

Thanks :)

LOL I love your comments Becca!

I've only just thought to look in here, I plan to watch it tomorrow :)

Thanks Louise. :D

Look forward to hearing your thoughts tomorrow then! Wonderful suggestion of yours to have a first thoughts thread by the way, so thank you very much for suggesting it. :)

I'm in love with Thornton :dies:! Margaret is so mean to him.
This mini series is a cinematic gem. I love the stark bleakness of Milton with the cotton raining down like snow. The visual ads so much to the story.

Richard Armitage is the best. His eyes speak volumes. He's the king of the icy glare (I don't want a Dwarf King with an oaken shield glaring at me like that) and also of the romantic longing look.

I love the part where Fanny Thornton is humming and John kind of rolls his eyes. That's such a great sibling response. He has much more patience than I do.

At first I hated Mrs. Hale. She was vastly annoying but I do think she had some sort of wasting sickness and that was the cause of her depression. I don't think she was well even before the move.

I liked Higgins at first but he has little sympathy for Boucher. I love Brendan Coyle as the passionate working man. He plays a variation on the same character in every period piece I've seen him in LOL!

Margaret is SO totally in love with John! You can see it in the party scene. They're both watching each other and trying to pretend they're not. When she holds out her hand to him and he shakes it, she's like "woah!" definate chemistry there. He holds her hand just a bit longer than necessary and she gives him such a look like "What just happened?" and then he's called away and they both look so sad.


I love the mob scene. It's brilliant and Margaret is amazing. How can John NOT love her? Of course, he does. She's very rude to him but his timing was bad. He should have come back later and not spoken his feelings so soon. She was stressed from worrying about her friends and family. John is oh so sad! My heart is broken! Dear Becca, what is wrong with your mother?! :sniff:

UGH sister called and interrupted! Thank goodness for the pause button!

The deathbed scenes are remarkable restrained for the Victorian era. Thank goodness the screenwriter cut out the flowery speeches that are common in Victorian fiction at such moment.

Frederick is certainly a lot of trouble. I feel bad for Margaret trying to keep everything from her gentle father and dealing with it all herself.

Oh dear, temper temper! Margaret has to marry him or else he will frighten his bride with his temper. Margaret is the only one who can stand up to him. She loves him. That much was obvious at the Exhibition. She keeps defending him and she tried to make him see he was a wanted visitor without telling him the truth. It's so heartbreaking!

Part 4 tomorrow if Netflix decides to work.

Qnpoohbear wrote: "I'm in love with Thornton :dies:! Margaret is so mean to him.
This mini series is a cinematic gem. I love the stark bleakness of Milton with the cotton raining down like snow. The visual ads so mu..."

In terms of the icy glare... I think if Richard Armitage ever scowled at me or glared at me like that, I'd either be frozen in place, in tears, or running in the other direction. One of the two. And that romantic look... I don't think I need to say anything about that...

:D I meant to mention the bit where Thornton rolls his eyes at Fanny's singing - that look always makes me giggle! Brilliant.

I do have to disagree with you about the party scene though, I don't think she's in love with him then... but I'll leave that discussion until after the group watch is over. :)

And in answer to your question: I think something is terribly, terribly wrong with my mother. How could anyone bear to laugh during that scene? She said she laughed because she knew Margaret would refuse him, but that is far too inadequate a reason for my liking.

Oh, come on, his temper is completely justified at that point, and he seems more hurt than anything else. And I still don't think she loves him at that point - perhaps likes him a little more than she did, and I think she feels sorry for having hurt him so badly. And of course she's worried about what he might think, her having so clearly lied about there being someone in the house.

Bet you're looking forward to Part 4! :)

Episode 3 - Becca's Notes

~ *sniffles*
~ *more sniffles* Okay, now Thornton really needs a hug. Preferably from Margaret, but hey, I’m totally up for the job. Oh, lines from the book during this moment keep flashing through my mind…
~ Oh, that poor thing, he’s barely keeping it together. The way he blinks rapidly when he’s trying not to be upset, how his voice falters when he says “No one loves me. No one cares for me but you…” Richard Armitage is so amazing. Literally now wanting to climb through the screen to give Thornton a hug. It’s okay, Thornton, we all love you!
~ Um, yeah, because visiting Thornton to thank him for some grapes wouldn’t be awkward at all… I think I’m going to put in my vote for sending a note as well.
~ Ugh… I know Higgins is being a little harsh, and I do feel very, very sorry for Boucher, but he does also disgust me just a little. I mean, imagine blaming Thornton for Margaret being hit with the stone? So. Not. Cool.
~ Ah… someone put a gag on Mr Bell! He’s a sweetheart, but he needs to stop talking. NOW.
~ Aww, it’s so cute (in a sad way) how dejected Mr Hale is when Thornton can’t come to his lesson.
~ Totally loving Mr Hales endless optimism… oh wait….
~ No… Bessie! :’(
~ Too many people needing hugs… Now Higgins needs one too…
~ You smug bastard, Henry. Must… not…slap…
~ Hey! I just realised that Thornton is literally the only guy not wearing one of those fancy tall hats. Probably because all the rest of them need the hats just to reach his height. :P
~ Dammit Fanny! Can’t you keep your annoyingly-pitched voice out of it for like, five seconds?
~ Haha, point for Thornton – “I’m not sure I’d know how to dabble.” Question: does anyone think Henry suspects Thornton’s feelings for Margaret? Because Henry certainly does an excellent job of taunting the poor man. (Okay, forget the bit about not slapping Henry. He deserves it.)
~ Mrs Hale: “Yeah, Margaret never does anything wrong… except cruelly refusing your son, Mrs Thornton. But meh, can you guys still be friends, right? Cool, thanks.”
~ Oh, that always makes me cringe. Poor, poor Thornton, Margaret really was quite rude. I mean, I know why, but it’s so hard seeing Thornton obviously taking it personally.
~ *sniffles* It always breaks my heart, seeing poor Mr Hale talking to his dead wife.
~ That Leonards guy really creeps me out…
~ Dammit, Frederick! You stole Thornton’s hug! *sniff* I hate thinking how much that moment is going to haunt Thornton, oh, that look on his face…
~ Holy crap, they really do drop like flies in this episode, don’t they? Someone dies, like, every fifteen minutes! On average.
~ Eek! Oh no, it’s the police! Ruuuuunnnn! Actually, no, play it cool – well done, Margaret, well done. “As much as I would like to own up to being remarkably handsome…” Great line. :D
~ Haha, Mrs Thornton got told! Nice. Still, I really, really don’t envy Thornton the choice he had to make, and how hard it must have been for him.
~ Also, kind of random: how does that police officer not get sick of repeating himself? Both Margaret and Thornton ask him to repeat almost everything he says at least once.
~ For goodness sake, Thornton, I just finished picking up the pieces of my poor shattered heart from the last episode! And then you have to come out with that intense, hurt, angry look, and that line; “I hope you realise that any foolish passion for you on my part is entirely over.” Oh look, there goes my heart, yet again. :’(
~ (P.S. Did I mention I love this soundtrack?)

Becca wrote: "Thanks Aery! :)
I'm so glad you were able to watch it with your niece - did she enjoy it? Still, watching it again seems a good idea, I'm hoping to do the same within our allocated time period. :) ..."

Oh, she absolutely loves it! She says it's a very close 2nd to the 1995 P&P. ;D She watched them both for the first time a year or two ago & said she couldn't believe we (my sis, sis-in-law, & I) had let her wait SO long to watch them. She's only 13... ;P
Anyway, reading your notes... it was almost like you had watched the show with us! I mean, some of the stuff you said was almost quoting us! Made me think how totally GREAT it would be to actually get to watch N&S with y'all! :)

Aerykah wrote: Oh, she absolutely loves it! She says it's a very close 2nd to the 1995 P&P. ;D She watched them both for the first time a year or two ago & said she couldn't believe we (my sis, sis-in-law, & I) had let her wait SO long to watch them. She's only 13...."

How lovely. :) Hahaha, evidently a Mr Darcy fan, then. Oh, only 13? Quite young to be a fan of North and South then, but it's very nice that you got to watch it with her!
Hehe, well, sorry if I accidentally quoted you, but in any case I'm glad that you agree with me so closely. :) Honestly, it would be one of the happiest days of my life if I actually managed to watch N&S with all of you, you know, in person rather than across time-zones... maybe we could organise it, with like, ten years preparation? :D

(Just had a great idea! If we ever organised that, we would totally have to get custom handkerchiefs made to commemorate the occasion - for those moments in the series when we definitely all need them! I can so see that, all of us sniffling and getting out our handkerchiefs at exactly the same time...)

I could not watch N&S with you all, but still wanted to discuss it as I really love this movie!! Becca and Qnpoohbear, your notes are such fun to read!! I agree with a lot of things that you said!! The soundtrack is definitely amazing!! It's one of my all time favs :)

Anne wrote: "I could not watch N&S with you all, but still wanted to discuss it as I really love this movie!! Becca and Qnpoohbear, your notes are such fun to read!! I agree with a lot of things that you said!!..."

Aw, such a shame you couldn't watch it with us. :(
Glad you had fun reading my notes, though! I'm going to put up the proper discussion topics over the next couple of days, I think full discussion is supposed to start on April 1st... though it might be the 2nd for me, as I tend to be a day ahead of most of you. Stupid Southern Hemisphere... :P

Becca wrote: "Anne wrote: "I could not watch N&S with you all, but still wanted to discuss it as I really love this movie!! Becca and Qnpoohbear, your notes are such fun to read!! I agree with a lot of things th..."

I know ): I just didn't have time! Your notes were delightful though, I felt as though I were reviving the movie! :) OK :) I will be checking out those threads once they're up! Haha yes, you are ahead! Almost an entire day ahead of me!

Well it's good that my notes were helpful as well as amusing, then! I will look forward to seeing you on the discussion threads. :) Ah, people say it's great to be ahead in life, but in this one instance it really sucks. :P

They sure were! Thank you :) I can't wait to discus it, it'll be so fun!! Hahaha! Does it really though? I don't like being behind everyone either! I miss too many updates :P

It does suck, but I suppose time differences cause trouble for everyone. Ah well, we shall just have to grin and bear it. :)

Episode 4 - Becca's Notes

~ Hehe, fair enough… his shoes were pretty dirty…
~ “Whatever Mr Thornton has told you…” Don’t you dare, Margaret, don’t you dare! Still, I pity her, being in such a situation; knowing how ashamed she is of lying, despite having no other choice. And then she has to listen to Mrs Thornton’s accusations… that would be hard.
~ Oh, it’s the most unfair thing in the world that Thornton is the one to be brought down after the strike. All of the other masters combined couldn’t measure up to him; seeing him struggle and fall under the weight of circumstance is heart-breaking.
~ *sigh* Higgins, I’m sorry, but you have really, really bad timing. Not excusing Thornton’s harsh words, but it really was a bad time.
~ Ahhhh! Fanny’s voice! Inside voice, Fanny, inside voice, please! *covers ears*
~ I just love the sideways look Thornton gives his sister while she’s busy being all high and mighty. “It’s not as if she will ever get a husband…” Sure Fanny, you keep on telling yourself that, dear. :P
~ I hate seeing Thornton so worried. I have so much respect for him, refusing to take a risk because he would not want to injure others in pursuit of his own gain. But I love that little smile after he jokes about praying that Fanny doesn’t have time to order anything else for her wedding.
~ Thornton: “Was Miss Hale the woman who told you to come to me? You might have said.” Higgins: “And you’d have been a bit more civil?” Thornton: *glares and leaves* :D LOL. Love it.
~ Aww, the look on Thornton’s face when Margaret says: “I have a better opinion of you than you have of me at the moment, I feel.” Poor thing, he’s so not over her, much as he tries to pretend otherwise. And poor Margaret, too.
~ Thornton: *smiles at cute kid reading*. Higgins: *manly nod*. Thornton: *manly nod back* :D
~ *heart explodes with cuteness* Thornton helping little Thomas with his reading… I think I might just die of perfection. And it always makes me smile like anything, seeing him and Higgins working together and joking together.
~ (Must not imagine Thornton with an icicle hanging off his nose… Oh dear… How could you do this to me, Edith?)
~ No, Mr Hale, no! *cries*
~ (It might be indelicate, but I have to mention Mr Thornton. It’s clear how much of a good friend Mr Hale was to him, and it’s heart-breaking seeing him crumble just a little when he hears the news, leaning against the wall with that "Oh my God..." look on his face.)
~ “So you are going…” *breaks down*
~ “Look back. Look back at me…” Enough said. I’m a wreck.
~ How dare they take the roses?!
~ I always found Mr Bell half-proposing to Margaret kind of odd…
~ Oh Thornton, Thornton, you poor thing, please let Mr Bell finish, please…
~ This little scene is the sweetest, sweetest thing. And it’s yet another example of how strangely perverted my family is, that my brother joked “She’s going to smother him!” when Mrs Thornton goes to place a shawl over her sons shoulders. Needless to say the glare I sent in his direction would have been deadly if looks could kill. But seeing Thornton working so hard, being so worn out and yet unable to save himself, and seeing his mother so gently putting her shawl over his shoulders... *sigh* More tears. They just keep coming.
~ Doesn’t Henry know any other compliments? “I think Margaret looks very well…” Wow, Henry, you’d make a lady swoon any day.
~ How dare you, Fanny, how dare you?! Must… hug… Thornton... It’s so kind of him to be thankful that Fanny’s taken care of, after she’s taunted him with the failure of his business, something that mostly wasn’t his fault. Oh, I cannot bear it!
~ Seriously, it’s high time Thornton challenged Lennox to a fist fight. Good lord, what a smug, self-centred… grrr! “He wouldn’t have anything to do with it. Far too principled…” You. Bastard.
~ I love this scene! “He was her brother…” Finally, something for Thornton to be happy about. :)
~ Okay, I really can’t say anything from this point onwards. Put simply, I’m a mess. I’m a complete and utter emotional shambles. So, once again, I’ll try and leave the outpouring of emotion for the discussion threads.
~ *happy tears*
~ (Oh, and if anyone dares to mention either 1. How improbable or improper it is to have a kiss like that at a Victorian train station, or 2. Say anything along the lines of “Poor Henry,” I will simply have to kill you. Over the internet. )

Becca wrote: "
Episode 4 - Becca's Notes..."

Regarding that last note -- I guess I'll be allowed to live, then. ;)

Episode One
~ “A London girl would have known not to speak of marriage in such terms?” I don’t think I like Henry much, he knows she isn’t a London girl and I saw no sign that she was thinking of him or trying to attract him.
~ It jumps without much explanation to them leaving doesn’t it?
~ The contrast between the clean, bright, green country and the dirty, drab and grey town is quite stark.
~ Margaret is very brave and practical, she could have sat at home with her mother and shown nothing but fear of her new home but she sets out to help her father and expects to be treated on equal terms, it’s quite impressive.
~ The first sight of Thornton is quite shocking if you don’t understand the situation, though I’m not sure beating his staff up before firing them is entirely justified.
~ The interview with the servant is interesting, it shows how things are changing in that period, it’s not enough to have money to gain respect any more. People are becoming aware of their rights and standing up for them.
~ “They don’t want books and culture, it’s all money and smoke.” Margaret’s mother does have a point. And you can’t blame her for being annoyed with her husband for giving up everything for a formality… but I can understand him at least, I couldn’t swear to something that I felt to be a lie either.
~ The people of Milton aren’t very nice, I don’t care if they’re just having fun and don’t mean harm. The way they are hassling Margaret shows appalling manners.
~ Margaret’s letter to her cousin is painting a rather rosy picture doesn’t it.
~ Thornton’s mother’s pride in him is understandable but it seems she would keep her son ignorant of all knowledge that is not directly related to business. His sister is a fright.
~ I love Margaret’s come back to his mother saying all the women want him, “Not all of them surely.”
~ Hmm Thornton does seem to be the best of the masters doesn’t he? Though it’s clear that the workers don’t always know what’s best for themselves either.
~ Thornton is just as prejudiced about the south as she is about the north.
~ “God has forsaken this place.”, “I have seen hell and it is white.” I don’t think Margaret likes it there much.

Brilliant notes, Louise! :)

Remind me to bring up some of the points from your notes when we're both on the discussion threads some time - there are certain points I think it would be great to talk about! :)

Aerykah wrote: "Becca wrote: "
Episode 4 - Becca's Notes..."

Regarding that last note -- I guess I'll be allowed to live, then. ;)"

:D I guess so.

Thanks Becca.

Episode Two
~ Bessie’s nice, it can’t be easy to keep in a good humour knowing how sick she is. It must tell Margaret something that Higgins response to finding out Bessie’s was sick was to want her to work for Thornton instead.
~ We find out about Margaret’s brother, injustice at sea as well as land
~ Strike… they aren’t any more effective today than they were then, it hurts the workers more than the masters but we still try. You know if the two sides actually talked to each other and dealt with each other fairly and honestly they might find a better way of doing things.
~ Enter Mr Bell
~ The Thornton’s dinner, and Margaret is watching him move around the room. There is definitely attraction there. Dinner is rather fraught but Margaret holds her own.
~ Margaret tries to help Thornton, if only he’d have listened to her. He goes down to face the mob because she makes it a point of honour but instead of talking to them or listening to them he defies them.
~ Thornton’s mother’s encouragement to her son, and conviction of Margaret’s feelings just shows how completely she has mis-read her.
~ Ouch, his proposal wasn’t that bad, she really does need to learn to be a little nicer about the refusing. But he’s wrong, he doesn’t understand her at all.
~I did a little bit more watching than writing during this one, that’s the hazard, you just get too caught up in it.

I second Becca'a warning about the kiss! Be warned!

Great notes everyone!

I love your closing remark there Louise - no I don't think she likes it much! But I love the ending to number 1 with that line. So powerful. "I have seen hell. And it is white, snow white."

Episode 4

My my Margaret admits the South has faults and Mr. Thornton has virtues -whatever could have brought this on?

Higgins swallow his tongue? Likely not. (He does move South, becomes a stone mason and changes his name to Robert Timmins jumping ahead 40 years. in Lark Rise to Candleford). He's a good man.

Irish mill workers went home? No they came here to New England where they became the strikers instead.

Fanny = perfect example of why women shouldn't be kept in the dark about business matters.

woah Thornton just apologized to Higgins. He's in a bad state to do that.

ahh sweet Mr. Hale finally gets a clue. Fathers are always the last to know what's going on.

Higgins is using his brains for good for a change. I love the exchange between Higgins and Thornton.

"It is natural to wonder whether the place where you were so happy so long ago will still be the same." wise and prophetic words from Margaret!

Mr. Bell arrives alone uh oh!
Poor Margaret! Poor Thornton!
"Look back, look back at me!" OH! My heart is cracked! Group hug for Thornton!

Margaret insists on wearing all black after only three months? She's still within her mourning period dear Edith.

The green of Hellstone is so bright compared to the grayness of Milton.

uh oh new vicar angered Margaret! Throw down!

Margaret LIED and she's upset because Mr. Thorton knows she lied and thinks badly of her. Hmm ... Where have we heard of another young lady worrying about a stern gentleman thinking badly of her? Hmmm!

Margaret is about to lose someone else she loves! How awful for her! Money can't buy family.

Good for her for taking control of her own life.

"We can't go back." True.

Shut up Fanny.

You have made money. "What, last night, while I slept? How clever of me!" LOL!
Margaret is sounding revolutionary!

Uh oh Thornton is in trouble. Hurry he needs a hug again!

GASP Higgins has a petition of workers who WANT to work for Thornton. Imagine that!

She has a brother? News to Thornton!

Margaret admits her mistake again!

He found the roses! Begin swoon!

He gives her the rose - swoons even more!

the romantic look - DIES! Shut up Margaret!

He takes her hand... THAT KISS! This scene is the most romantic scene in all period drama. SWOONS!

Poor Henry! Oh well. oops Becca is going to kill me! Henry is kind of a jerk and doesn't deserve her.

More kissing :Dies some more:

The music is beautiful.

I need to watch the ending again. Please wait while I swoon some more...

OK back... wow that was brilliant! I need to watch it again some time with my mom. She likes P&P. I think she will like this one.

Aerykah wow that's awesome your niece is getting into period drama. My nieces are 3 and 5 and I have a hard time interesting them in anything that doesn't involve fairies, princesses or ballerinas. Actually Disney movies are period drama for them. They both loved Frozen.

Episode Three
~ Ok I know Mr Bell is a nice man but isn’t his interest in Margaret just a little bit creepy?
~ Bessie’s gone. 
~ Some pondering the nature of God and the Unions.
~ On to the Great Exhibition and Thornton’s there… and with one sentence manages to alienate her again. But she is a lot fairer to him than he is to her.
~ Ugh… Margaret’s mother asking Mrs Thornton to befriend her daughter, what could be worse for Mrs Thornton or Margaret!
~ Fredrick has arrived, and not a moment too soon.
~ Thornton would visit and has completely misunderstood the situation, so quick to misjudge as well and at a time when Margaret only has good things to say about him.
~ Mrs Hale is gone, this is a sad episode.
~ And of course Thornton sees Margaret hugging her brother as he leaves but again she defends him, “As with most men, something has happened to make him scowl, do not judge him harshly.”
~ Mrs Hale’s funeral, so few people there and yet they sit as far apart as they can.
~ And Mr Bell is still stirring things by mentioning Henry.
~ Higgins is a powerful speaker, you can understand why people follow him
~ More death Leonards and Boucher
~ Not even Mr Hale has the guts to go and tell Boucher’s wife, all those proud men and only Margaret is willing to face her.
~ I know I should have more sympathy for Boucher, he is not a strong man and he is suffering and seeing his family suffer, but it would be better for them if he went elsewhere and found a job. What good is he to them dead?
~ I don’t think the Inspector believes Margaret somehow
~ Poor Thornton thinks even worse of her, even though “She wasn’t there”

@Soph: Thank you for seconding my warning! :D I'm sure the both of us will be up in arms as soon as anyone even tries to say something - anything! - disapproving about that kiss.

@Louise: More brilliant notes! :) Again, not entirely sure I agree with every comment you made; I have to warn you, I may get a little heated in my defence of Thornton in regards to some of your comments, but that's perfect, as it provides us with lots of things to discuss! And I do agree with quite a few things that you said, as well. :)

@Qnpoohbear: Aaah, your notes were lovely! I see we are in complete agreement about Thornton needing a hug, and many of your comments made me laugh. :) I particularly liked the comment; "Shut up Fanny." :D The most concise way of summing up our feelings towards Fanny throughout most of the series. Oh, and yes, I'm sorry, I may have to kill you now for actually daring to say "Poor Henry". Though you did redeem yourself slightly by calling him a jerk, so I may forgive you... eventually. :P

I look forward to the discussion Becca, though don’t get me wrong, I’d give Thornton a hug any time he needs it… Higgins too!

Episode Four
~ Mrs Thornton insults Margaret in the name of duty.
~ Oh Fanny, so proud over the man she has accepted, but it’s not for love. How did she end up like that with a mother like hers?
~ Thornton and Higgins, brilliant piece of acting …and what a team they make!
~ And now Mr Hale is gone and her Aunt is swooping in to carry her off
~ Mrs Thornton can’t wait to see the back of her and Thornton is heartbroken again, wishing for her to look back at him
~ She’s still wearing black after three months? Mourning was for a year, she wouldn’t even go into grey or purple for at least six months.
~ Margaret no longer fits in the south but that new vicar is an idiot, keep them simple, what do they need education for. I agree with Margaret, though I’d like to think she would have felt that way before the wild north.
~ And Mr Bell is counting his days too
~ Margaret is taking control of her life, now that she has the means, well done
~ Fanny is such a cow, how awful to gloat over her brother that way
~ Love Higgins, he’s finally told Thornton the truth about Margaret’s brother
~ Risking Becca’s wrath, I do feel sorry for Henry, Margaret knows how he feels she shouldn’t have asked for him to go with her to see the man she loves even if she doesn’t intend to admit her feelings.
~ I love that Thornton goes to see her home
~ At the train station… the way he is looking at her!
~ Definitely no issues with the kissing ;)
~ Wonderful ending :D

Episode 1

- Margaret looks so pale in that train scene, the strain of past three months can really be seen on her although she copes with everything admirably
- Oh, that aunt of her's. So obnoxious!
- I don't like the dress Margaret is wearing at her cousin's wedding. The colors is totally unflattering (and I don't like pink :) )
- I love Margaret's openness....no meaningless chit-chatter when you actually mean something else entirely
- Helston! So beautiful! :)
- Awkward moment when Henry wakes Margaret. ALways had mixed feelings about Henry
- Margaret is very clever....she immediately knows what Henry is going to say. And how did she lead him to believe that she would welcome a proposal from him. Ugh! Men!
- I love how Margaret has a certain kind of classical beauty. It always bothered me that main characters had to be "heavenly" beautiful and magnificent.
- Mrs. Hale....I always wondered how such a feable woman could give birth to such a strong one. I don't think she gets it from her father either...hm
- I like Mr. Hale. He respects his daughter and her judgement. Not a common thing in that time :)
- Men are such gossips and so full of themselves because they have stronger muscles. But Margaret puts them in their place and I think I saw a look of awe on the man left behind in the house :)
- I can't even imagine what it was like to work at that time. The conditions were horrible
- Well, not a good way to make a first impression for a good relationship. :/ But, I think Stevens did deserve it ( he put a lot of lives at jeopardy
- the first scene of Hitl....I mean Mrs. Thornton
- Edith is so commonly empty - minded. It's so easy to judge others when you don't work for your food
- "It's only natural that people should wonder".....Why? I never really understood this subjection to society's rules...not then and not today
- An interesting remark from Mrs. Hale..."just because we follow you without question...." It tells a lot about the status of women and children and their rights at that time
- I agree with Louise... I also couldn't back up something I didn't believe in anymore. Your faith should not and cannot be a formality. It tells a lot about religion being just a fashion and not somehing true. On the other hand, I can understand Mrs. Hale. It's very hard to change your life completely. I still don't like her whining (though I liked it when she showed some spirit and yelled at Mr. Hale)
- Margaret is trying to color everything for Edith :)
- "They just like a bonny face. And yours is a picture"....hehehe...Higgins, I do like him a lot. And the actor is just perfect for the role
- Oh, the look on Margaret's face when her father presents Mr. Thornton. And his haughty look! And a series of prejudices is about to start. :)
- "A basket?! What would we want with a basket?"....Northern people are so proud, despite being poor
- Fanny! Grrrr! Mrs. Thornton was so concentrated on her son that she forgot to educate her daughter about propriety or educate her in general. I like her irony though :)
- "Not all of them surely" ......<3 Margaret <3 And the look on Mrs. Thornton's face. Priceless! I think it's a start of a beatiful....enmity :) Still, she is proud of him for good reason :)
- All the Master look like empty-headed coxcombs. Thornton is definitely the best Master and the smartest person in the room. "My workers expect me to be hard, but truthful" :) He is a good employer
- Dixon overstepped the boundaries of good behavior when she judged Mr. Hale. Margaret put her in her place
- The troubled look on Margaret's face when she sees the way people live. I think I would have the same look. Poor people! :)
- " If there is a remote possibility of us finding offense, you can be sure we will. We are very good at that in Milton"...hihihihihi Bessy.
- Thornton rolls his eyes at Fanny's singing....so cute!
- How do they make that coiffure that Mrs. Thornton wears?! Fascinating!
- He looks so beautifuly at her! :)
- Small talk at its best! :D You can see how honesty was not appreciated at that time
- "I'm sorry if I misunderstood the handshake"...exuses, exuses Margaret. You were downright disrespectful :/
- I like it how Mr. Hale does not take sides
- I also love the subtle humor in this show...and the not so subtle too :D
- The scene of the Union meeting ( Mrs. Gaskell really knew what she was writing about and had her facts straight)
- Stevens...you sleezy bastard. Too bad Mr. Hale and Margaret had to see it. Damn!
- The last scene is so powerful...with the cotton "snow". And the last sentence.....aaaaaah :)

Haha, it's all right Louise, I know you'd be perfectly happy to give Thornton his much needed hugs - and I think it's good that we might disagree on some things, because otherwise there would never be anything to discuss!

Loving your notes, again, aside from that little thing at the end... *sigh* Evidently I am not scary enough to dissuade people from feeling sorry for Henry. Personally, I think he's a smug, insipid jerk, and the only thing wrong sigh that final scene is that Henry was in the vicinity. He lowers the romantic atmosphere just by being present.

@Samanta: Loved reading your notes! Particularly loving your description of Stevens as a "sleezy bastard". :D And of the masters as empty headed coxcombs. Thornton is by far the best and smartest man in the room. By far.

I am thoroughly enjoying reading everyone's notes!! Thanks for posting! :)

I'm curious... How many of y'all (if any) are watching this for the first time?

I wish I was!

I wish I was too! I must say, with all this discussion it's so hard concentrating on university lectures at the moment - I just keep thinking about North and South!

I do know that my dear friend Abigail is watching it for the very first time, as I invited her to this group so that she could watch it with us during the Group Watch. :)

Tnx, Becca! :) I will have to watch the rest of the episodes after the deadline because I didn't have time this weekend. Hope you all don't mind.

You're very welcome, Samanta. :) No need to worry overly about the deadline, either, it wasn't supposed to be extremely strict or anything.

@Qnpoohbear- I know! I'm so glad she enjoys them! :) Her younger sister is 7 and she's definitely more interested in Disney princesses (as evidenced by her dancing around the house singing "Let It Go" at least a dozen times the past 2 days). ;P She's too young to really enjoy period dramas right now anyway... But I'm hoping she'll grow to like them as she gets older. ;)

Sigh I wish I was watching it for the first time but I'm glad I wasn't because it really needs to be made high def and widescreen to fit new TVs. The picture on the Netflix version was a little pixely.

I felt a little sorry for Henry but he didn't do anything to make Margaret love him so he doesn't really deserve all that much pity.

for those wondering about Mr. Hale's doubts, I remember the website we used in class all those years ago when I first read the book
http://www.victorianweb.org/authors/g...

Those elaborate hairstyles were made with a lot of false hair! The women saved their hair from brushing or purchased hair pieces like modern hair extensions. I suspect the actresses were wearing wigs or hair pieces. That's how they do it on Downton Abbey.

I need to watch episode 4 again... and again...

@Aerykah your 7 YO and my 5 YO would get along perfectly LOL! E runs around singing "Let it Go" followed by her little cousin who is both tuneless and doesn't know the words. I gave the younger girl Pride and Prejudice baby lit and she loves it so I am hoping to influence her taste in literature and television drama.

Ha, the amount of pity that Henry deserves is minuscule.

Oh, was a lot of it really false hair? How disappointing. Still doesn't make me any less determined to figure out how do those hairstyles... with my real hair. :P

I absolutely love Episode 4, and I often re watch the last few scenes again when I finish. But it is great as a whole series, so I think I just need to watch all of North and South again... and again... and yet again... Every time I watch it, I never want to stop.

Can I also say, I would get on so well with all these little kids being mentioned? :D I still absolutely love Disney Princesses, despite being 17, and I thought Frozen and it's music was awesome.

I was re-watching N&S too, but there's so much to see and hear, I am always noticing something new.

And I'm sooo much older than Becca and I still like Disney, I haven't seen Frozen yet though :p