Space Opera Fans discussion

What is the difference between 'military science fiction' and 'military space opera?' While there is much overlap between the two, there are also differences. Since it's such a sharp, thin line, what do you think, if any? Sound out below or open up your own thread in this folder to discuss your favorite military space opera and/or military science fiction books.

Not sure where to start reading? Here's a Listopia that has lots of great books tagged as 'Military Space Opera' by readers:

https://www.goodreads.com/genres/mili...

Have you read a great military sci-fi book which you'd also classify as Space Opera which isn't on the listopia? One of the goals of this community is to promote Space Opera as a genre, so if you think one is missing, you can add it to that listopia yourself, or shout it out in the thread below (along with a blurb about why you believe it is space opera and not just regular military sci-fi) and I will add it for you. Thanks!

three good books are from a game called eve online
the first one not too great but a great story the second two is awesome even got a cap ship ramming a station.

Dale wrote: "three good books are from a game called eve online. the first one not too great but a great story the second two is awesome even got a cap ship ramming a station."

Ooh! MMORPG tie-ins! I'd absolutely love for you to start a new thread under the Gaming Tie-In's folder telling us about your experiences playing EVE Online and especially the interactive community. I've listened to the EVE soundtrack before now as ambient 'mood' music while writing (soundtrack link for other community members):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEEmO...

Okay ... just looked up these novels:

how did you link those books in?

1. When you make or edit your post, a box will occur on the upper right-hand corner of the text box that says 'add book/author.' Click it.
2. Type in the name of the book or author you want to pull up.
3. Go down to the BOTTOM of the little add box and click 'cover' (not link)
4. Click 'Add' for the book cover you want. A line of html gibberish will appear.
When you click 'post' the book cover will appear in your thread. :-)

Dale wrote: "how did you link those books in?"

thanks very much ill use that next time

Oof! Where are my military sci-fi guys? If you don't post once every 30 days, the entire folder goes invisible. I'm just posting to remind y'all we have a military space opera section.

Here we go

I watched the movie version of this like 100 times as a kid on television and thought it was just nifty, and then I snagged the videocassette at a thrift shop one day and went to watch it with my kids. Ooops!!! The TV version was the censored one. Yeah ... that movie is now up on the top shelf. It wasn't until fairly recently I read the book and realized it's actually kinda different from the movie.

Don't forget the ladies:

Kris Longknife
Honor Harrington
Tanya Huff's series
Vatta's War and the Serrano series

Anna wrote: "It wasn't until fairly recently I read the book and realized it's actually kinda different from the movie. "

Ya think! They only share a title. And they forgot the tag line: "On the bounce!"

Thanks Laz!

At some point I'll be doing a SOF Military Sci-Fi Listopia that y'all can upvote your favorites, so keep your suggestions coming. :-)

Anna wrote: "What is the difference between 'military science fiction' and 'military space opera?' While there is much overlap between the two, there are also differences. Since it's such a sharp, thin line, ..."

You're right, the line between them is razor-thin, but I think the distinction is the scope and scale. If the storyline is primarily confined to events before, after and during combat and everything is happening on a single planet among a limited number of characters, I'd probably define that as Military Sci-Fi. But if it has multiple storylines that change perspective among various planetary locales and/or races, with deeper interpersonal interaction among a lot more characters, I'd lean more towards calling it a Military Space Opera. Of course, it's all a matter of personal perspective and no two people will quite agree where the lines should be drawn.

We puny humans tend to want to define exactly which folder something should be filed under. But it's getting a lot harder to quantify exactly which genre-box to put any given book into, when so many modern works are cross-genre amalgams that could accurately be described by a variety of labels. For example, my SENTIENCE Trilogy is labeled as a Military Space Opera, but one of my author friends (who was beta-reading for me) insisted that I really needed to stick an "Epic Saga" label on it. (Whatever that means... which is an entirely different discussion, unto itself.)

The only labels I really want my readers coming away with after reading my books are FUN, ENTERTAINING and EXCELLENT. (Feel free to add more of your own.)

-- Gibson Michaels

Gibson wrote: "We puny humans tend to want to define exactly which folder something should be filed under. But it's getting a lot harder to quantify exactly which genre-box to put any given book into, when so many modern works are cross-genre amalgams that could accurately be described by a variety of labels..."

I totally agree, Gibson, which is why I think Space Opera as a sub-genre is the one most likely to reignite interest in science (because our readers are used to thinking on such a massive, intergalactic scale). I'm going to start a Best Military Space Opera request list for people to suggest titles, and then when I reach a certain critical mass, I'll be creating a Goodreads Listopia so both community and non-community members can easily find new voices. Be sure to drop your book series onto the master list once I create the post. :-)

But first ... I want to hear from SOF military sci-fi buffs where to draw the dividing line for inclusion into the list as to what they absolutely DON'T consider to be military sci-fi :-)

Well, for a start, one can't really classify a Military Sci-Fi story as Space Opera if it doesn't go into space.

For example Starship Troopers comes under both headings.

But on the other hand, John Birmingham's "Axis of Time" trilogy takes place firmly on Earth, but is still Military Sci-Fi.

Anna wrote: "I want to hear from SOF military sci-fi buffs where to draw the dividing line for inclusion into the list as to what they absolutely DON'T consider to be military sci-fi :-) "

There are tons of sci-fi books out there that have little or nothing to do with the military, and tons of military books that have little or nothing to do with sci-f. I think that a majority of the plot-line must concern the military aspects of a sci-fi story, to be considered Military Sci-Fi.

I enjoyed Starship Troopers because there was an over-the-top tongue-in-cheek satire of some of the ludicrousness of the business of war, but also because there was an underlying realism to how callously the soldiers were treated. A lot of military sci-fi is single POV, which usually disqualifies a book from being considered 'space opera', but so much military sci-fi personalizes the other men in the troop that you almost feel you're inside those other characters heads. Tough call. I will defer to reader opinion on this one.

I think you'd enjoy R.M. Meluch's "USS Merrimack" series, Anna.

It's equal parts Star Trek, Battlestar Galactica, and a huge dollop of I, Claudius.

Oooh! Yes ... anything BSG makes me VERY happy :-)

I didn't see B.V. Larson yet. First three books have been a fun space romp. Have the fourth one but haven't started reading it yet.

Rion wrote: "I didn't see B.V. Larson yet. First three books have been a fun space romp. Have the fourth one but haven't started reading it yet..."

I just added the Star Force series by B.V. Larson over in the 'master list' thread. Thanks!

Elliott Kay's Poor Man's Fight and Rich Man's War look pretty good.

Tom wrote: "Elliott Kay's Poor Man's Fight and Rich Man's War look pretty good."

Just added Poor Man's Fight under 'Military Space Opera Series' in the master-list in the other thread. It covers both books. Thanks!

I doubt think I knew BSG was a book. I really love these threads, Anna.

There were only a couple of new BSG tie-in novels. They weren't particularly good as I recall.

Whaddaya mean, only a couple of BSG tie-in books? :-)

Here's a wiki-list along with the book covers:

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Original series books

These Battlestar Galactica softcover novelisations were written by Glen A. Larson with the authors listed below. All novels except Battlestar Galactica 14: Surrender the Galactica! (ACE publishing) were originally published by Berkley, and have been republished, recently, by I Books, which called them Battlestar Galactica Classic to differentiate it from the reimagined series. The episodic novels featured expanded scenes, excerpts from "The Adama Journals," more background on the characters, and the expansion of the ragtag fleet to almost 22,000 ships as opposed to the 220 in the TV series. A new book series written by series star Richard Hatch starting in the 1990s continued the original story based on his attempt to revive the series, and ignored the events of Galactica 1980. His series picked up several years after the TV series ended, and featured Apollo in command of the Galactica after the death of Adama, a grown-up Boxey, who was now a Viper pilot, and the rediscovery of Commander Cain and the battlestar Pegasus, who had started a new colony and was preparing to restart the war with the Cylons.

Episodic novels:

Battlestar Galactica, with Robert Thurston (novel version of "Saga Of A Star-World")
Battlestar Galactica 2: The Cylon Death Machine, with Robert Thurston (novel version of "The Gun On Ice Planet Zero")
Battlestar Galactica 3: The Tombs of Kobol, with Robert Thurston (novel version of "Lost Planet Of The Gods")
Battlestar Galactica 4: The Young Warriors (with Robert Thurston)
Battlestar Galactica 5: Galactica Discovers Earth (Galactica 1980 novelization, with Michael Resnick)
Battlestar Galactica 6: The Living Legend, with Nicholas Yermakov
Battlestar Galactica 7: War of the Gods, with Nicholas Yermakov
Battlestar Galactica 8: Greetings from Earth, with Ron Goulart
Battlestar Galactica 9: Experiment in Terra, with Ron Goulart
Battlestar Galactica 10: The Long Patrol, with Ron Goulart





Original novels:

Battlestar Galactica 11: The Nightmare Machine (with Robert Thurston)
Battlestar Galactica 12: "Die, Chameleon!" (with Robert Thurston)
Battlestar Galactica 13: Apollo's War (with Robert Thurston)
Battlestar Galactica 14: Surrender the Galactica! (with Robert Thurston)





Original novels by Richard Hatch:

Battlestar Galactica: Armageddon (with Christopher Golden)
Battlestar Galactica: Warhawk (with Christopher Golden)
Battlestar Galactica: Resurrection (with Stan Timmons)
Battlestar Galactica: Rebellion (with Alan Rogers)
Battlestar Galactica: Paradis (with Brad Linaweaver)
Battlestar Galactica: Destiny (with Brad Linaweaver)
Battlestar Galactica: Redemption (with Brad Linaweaver)





Reimagined series books:

Tor Science Fiction has published the following works in both hardcover and paperback format.

Battlestar Galactica by Jeffrey A. Carver
The Cylons' Secret by Craig Shaw Gardner
Sagittarius Is Bleeding by Peter David
Unity by Steven Harper





Academic analysis:

Cylons in America: Critical Studies in Battlestar Galactica
So Say We All: An Unauthorized Collection of Thoughts and Opinions on Battlestar Galactica, edited by Richard Hatch
Battlestar Galactica and International Relations by Nicholas J. Kiersey and Iver B. Neumann (editors)
An Analytical Guide to Television's Battlestar Galactica by John Kenneth Muir



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[*think I'm going to go cut-and-paste this list down into discussion of the BSG reboot series so people can find it ... most people aren't aware there is a tie-in universe*]

What I meant, was that were only a couple of original novels covering the new - Ron Moore era BSG.

Ronnie wrote: "What I meant, was that were only a couple of original novels covering the new - Ron Moore era BSG."

Hah! Yeah ... skimmed through Unity at B&N and it didn't catch my interest at the time, though I didn't actually read it. I've read some of TOS books, though, a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away...

[*besides ... how often do I get a chance to show off my good geeky knowledge of vintage BSG trivia?*]

I loved the ones by Richard Hatch. They were very enjoyable. I haven't read any based on the other series. I still enjoy the original series better. (Maybe it's just sentimentality, I don't know.)

BSG TOS was more E.E.Doc Smith classic space-operish (the focus was on the hope). BSG reboot was a lot darker and more like military space opera in that the focus was on banding together to survive under fire.

I particularly liked the contrast between the two Adama's in BSG TOS and the reboot. Edward James Almos brought an real old soldier flavor to the role. Survival was in both as well as hope and mystery, but it was approached differently. Many of the leaders survived in TOS after the first Cylon attak and advised Adama. Only 1 of the true colony leaders are in the reboot. BSG 1980 should never have happened. OMG that was so bad.

There weren't many, but what about Babylon 5 books. I think the series was one of the best military space operas. I only wished some of the spinoffs would have done better and more books could have been created.

There is strong speculation the series will return in a Major Motion picture reboot. Interesting, but you need the series are and books to cover the gaps.

I loved the original BSG as a kid, but yeah ... it was pretty bad when I caught some rebroadcast episodes in that campy 1980's way. I was so psyched in the reboot when the radios for the vipers used single sideband and sounded like real single sideband (I'm a licensed ham). Usually shows that feature fighter pilots don't depict that accurately because it distorts the voice. And I loved Adama!

I, too, have heard rumors of a Babylon 5 reboot.

"At the 2014 San Diego Comic Con, Straczynski announced that a Babylon 5 movie is planned to go into production in 2016. It is to be a reboot of the story, but potentially one using old cast members in different roles. Studio JMS would produce it on a budget of $80–100 million if Warner Bros. do not take up the offer..."

Ok, Here go a few thoughts here regarding genre. I have read all of the comments here and got to thinking in terms of Hegemony versus society. In Battle star, aside it being the discussion of AI valued against authentic man, there is also a fine line between Adama Military control and the Democracy of the people. I recall there being a continuous struggle for there not to be a military coup. Going back to the Alien franchise we see a more horrific and accurate reflection of who controls who in the form of corporations entwined with the concept of the military. Who sent the marines to fight the Aliens in the sequel? This for me is a more damning reflection of today's climate regarding a complex narrative of power. So in for instance Star Wars, the narrative is quite clear in that it is an opera due to the fact that our lead protagonists are smugglers and farmers or religious types fighting the overlords of military dictatorship. Although, thinking about all of this it was Wilson Tucker in 1941 who coined the phrase who said it was a 'Space ship yarn' So in all, I am no closer to giving an answer, for Military sci fi is included in the scope of space opera. On one final note, I remember in Star Trek there being a time change where the enterprise is changed from an exploration ship to a war ship. That character, the bar woman woopi Goldberg tells Piccard it's all a bit wrong as she's been around like forever. In that instance and if the Enterprise continued down that path, would it be military or opera? I'm thinking no. One of the main rules of opera as in even soap opera are that it is the underlining drama, the melodramatic fall outs regarding love and loss etc. One of my favourite story lines in Battle Star was when Star Buck and the son Adama end up in the boxing ring after their affair. If that's not soap enough I don't know what is..

I always thought Space Opera is a single book or series with a huge, giant convoluted storyline that focuses on the personal side of things. You know like a regular opera deals with -- love/loss joy/sadness birth/death.

So being military sci-fi doesn't discount a book from being Space Opera; so long as there is a strong personal side to the book, I think it classifies as a Space Opera.

Jonathan wrote: "I always thought Space Opera is a single book or series with a huge, giant convoluted storyline that focuses on the personal side of things. You know like a regular opera deals with -- love/loss jo..."

Maybe all this is a rhetorical question. Maybe all it takes is for it to be military is for the lead characters to be Captains and Generals in a war narrative specifically rather than exploration or other reasons. Maybe we should just bleed the genres into each other and say military space opera and have done with it, after all the french word for type is only there to assist folks down at the library. Ho ho.

Damn authors, refusing to stay in their little boxes. Impertinent.

Brendan wrote: "Damn authors, refusing to stay in their little boxes. Impertinent."

Ha Ha. The initial question was harder than expected. Instead of being a smart arse I failed that replicant empathy test and flat lined. Genre? isn't that a hair colour. Put your hearing aid back in!

Brendan wrote: "Damn authors, refusing to stay in their little boxes. Impertinent."

ha ha. There should be an upvote button for your comment.

Craig wrote: "Jonathan wrote: "I always thought Space Opera is a single book or series with a huge, giant convoluted storyline that focuses on the personal side of things. You know like a regular opera deals wit..."

What is a book really, but a series of words pulled from our consciousness, expressing the deeply rooted beliefs and repressed memories of our youth. To label such existential feelings with something as suppressing as a genre is disparaging and boorish. Let us all create works of art without the constraints of genre labels so we can all glorify in the transcendence of words. :)


I am pretty sure military sci-fi is when the lead character has something to do with a military.

Throwing my two sense in as a non-military expert (sorry ... I take an expansive view of 'if it's cool and I like it...' so don't throw rotten tomatoes at me... :-)

For me to call something 'military' it has to have at least some focus on the mindset and procedures that someone who has served time in the military would recognize. I never served, but most of my uncles growing up, my brother, several cousins, and then my eldest daughter all did stints in the military. There's this mindset of cameraderie, of working together as a group, of self-sacrifice I find that people who served have. There are rules and procedures because, once you're in a battle situation, everybody has to be able to work together as a unit or the entire unit fails.

For me to call something 'military' sci-fi it has to have that sense of coming together and building rapport to fight. So farmers with pitchforks -could- conceivably be military space opera if a Sara Connor figure comes in and teaches them how to use those pitchforks to defend their fields against the aliens. Or like in the movie 'Gladiator' when Russell Crowe asks the gladiators who've been thrown into the rink to die, "has anybody here served in the military?" The moment they realized they all knew how to work together and follow orders, they overcame the odds.