Classics Without All the Class discussion

Hello and welcome to the month of November and the book of the month Heart of Darkness by Joseph Conrad! This is a short but intriguing and great book. I hope that you all enjoy it as much as I did when I read it last year. The good news that it's actually quite short, only around 200 pages, because I know how busy we can all be in the next couple of months. Are you excited to read this book? Have you read it before? Are you not looking forward to it?

I read it in high school (now more than forty years ago) and found it problematic. Am hoping to carve out the time to read it this month and reassess it as an adult!

Abigail wrote: "I read it in high school (now more than forty years ago) and found it problematic. Am hoping to carve out the time to read it this month and reassess it as an adult!"

Do you remember why you thought it problematic?

Is it okay to say at this point, before others have read it? (view spoiler)[Not sure I had words for it at the time, but although Conrad is supposed to have been challenging colonialist assumptions, I felt he was so trapped in the unquestioned verities of his culture that he still saw the whites as “us” and the blacks as “other.” The mere implication that “we’re” like “them” in our basest instincts troubled me. He took a step down the road of problematizing the idea of “blackness” but didn’t maybe get too far. (hide spoiler)]

On a less hifalutin level, at that age I was probably more into stories about females than stories of manly adventures in the manly world. I remember loathing Hemingway! (Well, I still do, truth be told.)

I just borrowed the book from a friend and started reading it today. I'm glad it is a short read this month, because I have so many other books to finish this year ;) I am also exited to read a book which is set in Africa, the last few months almost all books I read were set in England or the USA.

I read Heart of Darkness last year and enjoyed it. I kept thinking about Apocolypse Now though and I got myself confused a few times forgetting that the book is different. The movie was inspired by the book but does not follow too closely. My impressionable mind though....it kept wandering back to the film setting and characters. I would like to read it again someday in hopes of appreciating THE BOOK without my intrusive memories of the film. :-P

I finished it last night but didn't really like it. I don't know if it was the book or my mood (it felt a bit like I had to read it because of the groupread, not because I wanted to at the time). Maybe it just wasn't really my cup of tea. In the end the story was too slow for me and I wanted to finish it the same night so I rushed through the second part of the book. Maybe I have to give it another chance sometime.

I too could not get apocolase now out of my mind. Did not really do anything for me. But our book club in Canberra studied the book and our discussion certainly opened up my mind a bit to bits I missed. Still could not understand the significance of the beautiful woman at the end.

I know I read Heart of Darkness when I was in college or soon after but that was 40 yrs ago and I have no recollection of the story or my response at that time. I remember other books I read in those days fairly well though. Perhaps it being a rather short and simple story is responsible.
I'm a bit over half way and am enjoying it a great deal. The man could sure write beautiful sentences. I also read the 13 page introduction by Ross Murfin in my copy which was very informative background.

I actually loathe this book. I had to stop reading 3/4 of the way through the first time I read it, and didn't pick it back up for a month. It's racist and imperialist, and made me physically ill to read. Perhaps it's because I'm Black, but its inclusion on lists of classics "everyone" should read is horrifying to me, because this book — like To Kill a Mockingbird and Uncle Tom's Cabin — includes blatant descriptions of racist acts and is written including many racist tropes that are actively harmful to the psyches of Black people.

Tessara, If political correctness is the goal, perhaps the book lists should read "Books Everyone Should Consider". There are many in these lists that I would not read knowing the subject matter would either annoy or offend me to the point where I would not be able to appreciate the greatness of the writing or the significance to the time period and culture in which it was written. Heart if Darkness is a good example of this. The story is about traveling to a wild and unchartered place and the deleterious effects it had on someone who was ill prepared for what he would encounter. That theme has inspired other stories and continues to do so. The racism you speak of was the state of the Western world at that time so history is more to blame than Joseph Conrad as he was writing based on his own experiences in life as all authors do. If someone wrote a book like this today, it was be seen as racist and out of touch for good reason. A hundred years from now I wonder which of our modern Classics will be loathsome to the next generation.

Beth, I don’t really think anyone is trying to enforce “political correctness,” a term that is increasingly used as a stick to beat people with. Yes, the language is beautiful, and the book deserves to be read for that. But it also feels like a kick in the gut for anyone who has been on the receiving end of hatred and prejudice, and that aspect of the experience of reading this book should be acknowledged alongside the rest. In my opinion, Tessara’s reaction is a valid part of the dialogue about the book, as well as of any discussion about what constitutes a classic. To what extent do we valorize and perpetuate racist tropes if we continue to place works that include them on the “Classics” pedestal?

This IS dialogue, isn't it? I mean no offense. I respect that many people dislike Heart of Darkness and the reasons are valid. I did not enjoy Robinson Crusoe for similar reasons. I support criticism and avoidance of any book that is personally offensive (There is one popular author I refuse to read because I feel she attacks my religious beliefs) but I disagree that they should be removed from lists. Lists are what help direct people to notable works that may or may not be offensive to an individual or group. I want to see a comprehensive list of books that have literary merit. Many many books on a list go into my discard pile but I like being the one to decide that, not Amazon, booklist or Goodreads, etc.

Alex wrote: "I too could not get apocolase now out of my mind. Did not really do anything for me. But our book club in Canberra studied the book and our discussion certainly opened up my mind a bit to bits I mi..."

Hi Alex. From my experience reading, the woman at the end serves as a contrast to the horrors of Marlow's travels. And I think she also is a sort of "victim" who suffered from Kurtz's downfall. (view spoiler)[He had installed some sort of reign of terror on an African village, and yet he had a meek little fiancee waiting at home. Now she intends to be a widow for the remainder of her life. (hide spoiler)]

Marlow's intent for telling this story is to show this man Kurtz as almost inhuman, but maybe also evil-godlike. At the time of writing, this story had blockbuster potential--the tension builds in a scary fashion as Marlow travels toward Kurtz. But the story also had the viewpoint written by a colonizing empire, which modern audiences cannot take at face-value anymore. The world is not like this anymore. Some aspects are universal still, but context is vital.

I agree, Beth. I Want to be able to read books such as this and Uncle Tom's Cabin, etc., just as I Want to be able to read books about the Nazis and the Holocaust and other such historical atrocities, not for behavior to emulate, but to study the behaviors and the flawed "reasoning" of those times behind the atrocities in order to help prevent them from continuing or happening again. I see the merit for having these books on the lists we're talking about for reasons of beautiful literature about cautionary tales, whether the tales are easy to read and stomach or not, and of course that's the whole point. Acknowledging beautiful historical literature about cautionary tales is one of the powerful ways to reach many people. There is much truth in Santayana's statement: "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." Taking away the freedom to choose what to read is a dangerous proposition: for one thing, it may keep the historical cautionary tales out of the hands of those who may need them most.

Glendapearl, Agreed. We can learn much from novels that took place during dark times in history even though the darkness was not understood or acknowledged at that time.

I was thinking about the title: "Heart of Darkness". I was wondering how many people at the time of its publication thought it was simply going to be about a colonial soldier following an order to reach a commanding officer in the middle of "the Dark Continent". Instead, we go to the heart of mankind's darkness. That seems obvious today, but it might have been shocking for naive readers "back home" to find out just how any empire is able to maintain their controlling interests in various parts of the globe. Does anyone know what sort of reception/ reaction followed its release?

It doesn't read like a docudrama, but it feels like it's part of the beginnings of that medium. Enough time has gone by now, that we can evaluate the perceptions and prejudices of the documentarian along with his subject matter.

Lizbeth, here's what sparknotes says (http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/heart/c...

"Although Heart of Darkness was one of the first literary texts to provide a critical view of European imperial activities, it was initially read by critics as anything but controversial. While the book was generally admired, it was typically read either as a condemnation of a certain type of adventurer who could easily take advantage of imperialism’s opportunities, or else as a sentimental novel reinforcing domestic values: Kurtz’s Intended, who appears at the novella’s conclusion, was roundly praised by turn-of-the-century reviewers for her maturity and sentimental appeal. Conrad’s decision to set the book in a Belgian colony and to have Marlow work for a Belgian trading concern made it even easier for British readers to avoid seeing themselves reflected in Heart of Darkness. Although these early reactions seem ludicrous to a modern reader, they reinforce the novella’s central themes of hypocrisy and absurdity."

I thought the Joseph Conrad Society website might be a helpful source on this subject, but it isn't much. Links to critical essays are not working: http://www.josephconradsociety.org/

Thanks, Glendapearl. The excerpt you posted is really interesting. "A condemnation of a certain type of adventurer..." Wow! So different from how the story struck me.

I read Heart of Darkness in an edition that includes an introducion and numerous critical essays, edited by Ross Murfin, and I recommend trying to obtain that to those who want to hear more ideas and interpretations about it. An interesting bit to me was about the initial publication and response. It was published serially in "Blackwood's Magazine" and printed in entirety a few years later in a volume entitled "Youth". The other two works published in the collection, "Youth" and "The End of the Tether" were received more favorably. A reviewer that year (1902) was dismayed at this, and said that Heart of Darkness was "too strong a piece of meat for the ordinary reader", but insisted that it was "a psychological masterpiece". We probably owe a debt to reviewers and literary scholars who saved it from obscurity.

Indeed. Thanks for sharing that George. I can see how this story could spark controversy even in 1900. It would bother me if it didn't raise some eyebrows. But I'm glad it survived the scrutiny.

Just finished this and it certainly was a dark one! I loved the language and the imagery - to me it was one huge analogy - and I was surprised to read that he was Polish and didn't become fluent in English til his 20s! Also that it was based on his experiences as a barge pilot in the Congo, too. An excellent read, so cheers all!

English wasn't Conrad's 2nd language either, it was his 3rd. In his late teens he began serving on French ships and learned French, then for some reason the French authorities didn't want him anymore, to do with politics I think, and he began working on English ships and learning English. Otherwise, Heart of Darkness would have been written in French!?