A Song of Ice and Fire - A Chapter a day discussion
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A Clash of Kings
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11/10/15 - Chapter 42: Davos II
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Your point 10, that's why Davos is one of my favorite characters in the series. I love that he is so loyal, honest even to his king, and humble. :) Your point 11, I just realized, if Stannis believes Robert was a usurper, that would make him a usurpers heir. Doesn't that sound wrong?
Your point 18, I agree! Burning someone alive is not a nice thing to do. I have a hard time understanding how she can justify it as good. It reminds me exactly of the witch hunts in Europe.
Your point 19, you make a good point about the dark god and the Stranger. They do kind of sound the same.
1. The Penrose sigil is a crossed pair of quills, white on russet red. Ser Courtnay Penrose is going to treat with Stannis.
2. Davos doesn’t know why he’s even here, other than Stannis commanded it of him. He’s even wearing mail, lol, which makes him feel uncomfortable. I’m guessing he’s not a fighter.
3. This is the closest Davos has gotten to Stannis in eight days. Stannis always seems to be too busy for him whenever he tries to speak with him. That’s odd, since Davos is supposed to be his Hand. It’s that Melisandre’s fault. Very interesting that Devan says Stannis has been troubled by terrible nightmares and only Lady Mel can help him sleep, hmm. Davos wonders the same thing I’m thinking, lol.
4. Ser Cortnay calls Stannis lord and Lord Florent corrects him. The Florents are apparently very rich and rule at Brightwater Keep. He was the first bannerman of Renly’s to go over to Stannis. Makes sense. He also is the first to take up the Lord of Light as his god.
5. Stannis knew Ser Cortnay sent ravens for help. He knew no one would help him. He says he’ll pardon him as he’s pardoned the other lords behind him if he accepts him as his king and hands over Storm’s End, as it’s his by right. He also wants Edric Storm. At this Ser Cortnay refuses. I wonder why he’s so invested in protecting him? Lord Florent tells Penrose that Stannis means the boy no harm. Also, Edric is his grandson on his mother’s side. That doesn’t sway Penrose, though. Ser Cortnay calls them turncloaks. Lord Caron says they’re not turncloaks; they’ve always served Storm’s End and the Baratheon House. Interesting he calls Stannis Renly’s heir; I wonder what Stannis thinks of that! That’s just what they tell themselves so they can justify why they switched sides. Ser Cortnay asks if that’s true, then where is Loras Tyrell, Tarly, Rowan, and Oakheart? These men also willingly believe Brienne killed Renly and Stannis is innocent. Psh... That’s what they have to tell themselves. Ser Cortnay says he knew Brienne since she was a little girl. Lord Florent believes it was Catelyn, but most still think it’s Brienne.
6. Ser Cortnay has a good point there. If Caron was one of Renly’s Rainbow Guard, why is it Renly’s dead and he isn’t? He should’ve been there to protect him.
7. Stannis commands them to stop arguing. He says the Lord of Light willed Renly to die and it doesn’t matter who did it. Um, I think it does matter! Such blind allegiance to a god can be very detrimental. If your god tells you to kill someone you should probably ask yourself why.
8. Ser Cortnay proposes a single-combat to settle the matter but Stannis says no. He has 20,000 men to his cause now; he’ll besiege Storm’s End if Penrose refuses to give it up without a fight. Ser Cortnay is certain Stannis will never succeed because Storm’s End is so well fortified. Haughtily, he retreats back into his castle.
9. Lord Estermont tells Stannis if they try to storm these walls thousands will die. Apparently he is Stannis’s maternal grandfather. Many of his bannermen beg him to reconsider the trial by combat. That way only one life will be taken instead of thousands. Stannis tells them to be quiet and calls for Davos to ride with him. Finally! Davos almost looks apologetic as he rides past them. He knows they’re all proud men from rich old Houses and probably aren’t used to being yelled at from anyone.
10. Davos can see how haggard Stannis is getting. Stannis tells him Lord Alester suggests they seize Lord Penrose, Ser Cortnay’s father, and hang him for his son to see, but Davos says that would be ill-done. It would bring dishonor to them all. It’s interesting Stannis still calls Davos “Smuggler.” Stannis asks why Davos esteems Penrose more than the other men behind his back and Davos says it’s because Penrose keeps faith. The other men switch sides way too easily but Penrose serves a worthy cause. Davos always tells Stannis the truth and he appreciates him for that. He tells Davos he’s missed him. :) He admits it sickens him to pardon all these traitors, but he needs them, and it’s right of Davos to reproach him. Wow, that’s big. Davos doesn’t reproach him, though.
11. I like that Stannis asks why Davos keeps his finger bones in his pouch around his neck. Davos explains it reminds him of who he once was and of Stannis’s justice. I also like that Stannis says good deeds don’t cross out a wrong one. “You were a hero and a smuggler.” In psychological terms, I forgot the word to call this, but basically it states that two opposing statements can be used to describe the same thing. Example: The flower is poisonous and beautiful. *SPOILER FOR A STORM OF SWORDS* (view spoiler)
12. Stannis grieves Renly for the boy he was, not the man he became. That’s big of Stannis to admit he grieves at all. And he hates that people believe his daughter was fathered by Patchface, making him look like he was cuckolded. But Davos reminds him they cannot stop men from talking, which is true.
13. Stannis vows he will have justice for Robert’s killers, Ned Stark and Jon Arryn’s too. But when Davos asks what about Renly, Stannis doesn’t speak at first. He softly admits he dreamt of Renly’s death and describes the scene that actually happened in Catelyn’s chapter. I forgot about this completely. I wonder if the shadow was really being controlled by Stannis in his “dream”? He says Devan was trying to wake him out of his nightmare. It sounds like Stannis doesn’t know Renly died from a shadow. He says it was only a dream. Davos knows something about this is terribly wrong. Yeah, Melisandre! I thought Stannis was in cahoots with Mel, but here it sounds like Stannis didn’t know. This really makes me dislike Mel!
14. Lol, Stannis is over-analyzing the peach thing. He promises he will go to his grave thinking about that peach.
15. At council meeting, before the other lords enter, Stannis asks what Davos would have him do. Davos says forget Storm’s End and sail to King’s Landing at once. OMG! I just realized, if they had done as Davos suggests here, they would probably win! Because the chain would not have been finished yet, according to Tyrion. *SPOILER FOR UPCOMING CHAPTERS IN A CLASH OF KINGS* (view spoiler) Oh wow, I just now realized this. Davos says the Lannisters are his bigger threat and Tywin is marching west, not south. If they hit now they have a good chance at succeeding the throne, and then Ser Cortnay must join him. So there is no need to attack Storm’s End. Lol, I like that Stannis tells Devan, “He makes me wish I had more smugglers in my service.”
16. Unfortunately, Stannis says Storm’s End must fall, because if it doesn’t he’ll look like he was defeated and he can’t have that. No one would fear him. Apparently Stannis had sent out envoys to get the other half of Renly’s army to go over to his side but so far they haven’t returned and Stannis thinks Ser Loras got to them first and killed them. That’s 60,000 men still at Bitterbridge. Davos says that’s all the more reason they should go to King’s Landing now, before they join the Lannisters.
17. I’m surprised how angry Stannis is with Salladhor Saan. All Saan cares about is gold and the only reason he wants to attack King’s Landing is to sack it. I think it’s ironic Stannis refuses to listen to a pirate’s council yet he’s listening to a smuggler’s!
18. Stannis says Storm’s End will pass on to Ser Cortnay’s lieutenant, Lord Meadows, should something happen to Penrose. He believes Lord Meadows will yield the castle to Stannis. This does not sound good! Davos says Ser Cortnay seems healthy to him, and Stannis says so was Renly before he died. “The night is dark and full of terrors, Davos.” Oh gods, here it sounds like Stannis knows exactly what’s about to go down. Davos doesn’t like the feel of this. Stannis says Mel told him she saw it in her flames that Ser Cortnay will die tomorrow. Mel advises him to conquer Storm’s End, where he will gain the better part of Renly’s power. Well if Melisandre says it, it must be true... Has no one considered the possibility that she could be wrong? Mel is stealing Stannis’s power by doing everything for him!
19. Davos has a point. Renly only went to Storm’s End because Stannis laid siege to it. He wasn’t going to attack them; he was going to attack King’s Landing. But Stannis will not hear of it. I think what Davos means here is that Stannis shaped Renly’s fate. I wonder what else Davos was going to say? “...he would have--”
20. I forgot Mel also said she saw in her flames Stannis taking King’s Landing only to be smashed by Renly from the south. So they stopped that from happening, then. Ha! Davos says, “If she saw two futures, well...both cannot be true.” Stannis says some lights cast more than one shadow; that’s true, too.
21. Stannis brings up the fact that Davos doesn’t love Mel and not many of his bannermen do either. But she still serves him, as he serves him, and Davos wonders how. Stannis dodges the question (sounds all the more guilty to me) and asks if he can smuggle a boat under Storm’s End for him like he did before. Davos is worried Stannis wants him to assassinate Penrose and is frightened of what Mel has done to his king.
22. Stannis says Mel told him he must have Edric Storm. She saw it in her flames. I find it highly interesting that Stannis looks troubled when Davos asks if it’s possible Ser Cortnay only wanted an honorable way to yield the castle up, even if it meant his life. I think Stannis hadn’t thought of that possibility, but he goes back to saying Mel’s flames never lie. :( He’s dead set on this plan, which sounds more like Mel’s instead of Stannis’s. I like that Davos thinks, “Yet they require me to make them true.”
23. In the end Stannis gets his way. Davos smuggles Mel under the castle. It feels just like when he smuggled the onions in for Stannis 16 years ago, but different. I love this: “The last time it was life I brought to Storm’s End, shaped to look like onions. This time it is death, in the shape of Melisandre of Asshai.” I love that Davos loves sleeping on board a ship and the wind in his rigging is more beautiful to him than any singer. But he is afraid now. Mel says she can smell the fear on him. Here she seems easy to talk to, laughing and asking if it’s her he fears, what “we” do. I wonder what she means by we? Davos corrects her, “What you do. I’ll have no part of it.” Problem is, he is helping her, and I think that’s what scares him. What she’ll do, because of him.
more..
24. I really like that Mel asks if he’s a good man and Davos is honest with her. He is a man, good and bad. He tries his best to be a good husband and father and has never felt evil until tonight. Mel calls him a grey man. “What if I am? It seems to me that most men are grey.” She sees it differently, using the analogy that a half rotten onion as all rotten. You know, if half an onion is rotten in my kitchen, I simply cut off the bad part and use the good part in my cooking. I’ve never gotten sick. She is an all black or white person. Urgh... A religious zealot, wanting only the white. Mel has obviously never heard of the Yin-yang symbol, or of harmony and restoring balance. This is what I love about this series; it can be so philosophical!25. When asked if she’s good or evil Mel says good, “...a champion of light and life.” That’s not arrogant at all... She points out that Maester Cressen poisoned himself trying to poison her; she did not kill him. Psh, but she knew he had poisoned the wine and let him drink anyway! To me, knowing but not saying anything IS guilty. The champion of light and life committed murder. I associate murder with darkness: death and shadows. True, without light there can be no shadow, but a shadow is still dark and cold.
26. Holy shit Davos asks if she killed Renly. She says no, and Davos is sure it’s her now. I like how he tells her the cold and darkness helps them now. “The god of darkness protects us now, my lady.” At that she says not to speak that one’s name; he protects no one. He is evil, the enemy of all that lives. She says the firelit torches protect them, not the darkness. I say it’s both that are helping, but that’s just me.
27. Now Mel admits Renly was unprotected when he asks how she got to him. Hmm... She says Storm’s End is an old place, though; it has spells woven into the stones. So I guess she can’t kill Penrose the same way she killed Renly, so she has something else up her sleeves, or...robes.
28. She says there are no shadows in the dark, but how in the world would she know that if she can’t see in the dark? Sort of like the refrigerator light theory; you assume the light turns off but you don’t know that for sure because you don’t see it. She says shadows are servants of fire. So shadows are okay with her, but not darkness. She does realize that nighttime is simply the shadow of the sun beating down on the planet from the other side, right?
29. Once inside, Mel takes off her robes and reveals she is heavily pregnant, shocking Davos, and me, the first time I read this. I remember I was like...WTF??? For Davos it’s, “Gods preserve us.” Poor guy. She laughs too, wtf... Mel is sweaty and glowing, her eyes like hot coals. Freaky. Black blood pours out of her as she gives birth to a literal shadow. It stands straight and is taller than Davos. It dashes away really fast, slipping past the closed iron portcullis. Davos recognizes the shadow, too, “As he knew the man who’d cast it.” The show will have us believe Stannis and Mel had been fucking. At first I thought that was ridiculous, but after rereading this scene I’m not quite sure if they’re wrong.
fin!
About what you answered to my point 11, it does sound wrong! I hadn't thought of that. I guess Stannis doesn't see himself as an usurper.Your point 11 was really interesting, it didn't cross my mind. But it's used a lot. I don't think just in the series, but in life too.
In your point 13, wow you're right! It does seem he does't know. I mean, he must know something, but maybe he wasn't moving the shadow.
Your point 15. Wow! You are right! I didn't realise it!
About your point 29, after reading it a second time, I think they are. I mean, she was pregnant. With Stannis's shadow, as crazy as it sounds, lol.
2-Florent was the first of Renly’s lord to declare for Stannis and change gods. I wonder how that conversation went, since he’s Selyse’s uncle.
3-I like Ser Penrose, he believes in his cause and fights for it. Stannis had termns, Penrose had a forthnight to open the gates of Storm’s End and give Edric Storm to him. All would be forgiven, and could join or go. Which are pretty good terms, but Penrose refused to deliver the kid. I wonder why he’s willing to fight or be sieged over this bastard kid.
4-Penrose told Florent, who said in the beggining he should call Stannis your grace, not lord like he did, he was a man of ambition, and changed kings and gods like he changed boots, and so did the other lord behind him. Of course they got mad, but Davos thought he wasn’t wrong. And he isn’t, since he belonged to Renly before.
5-Cortnay Penrose knew Brienne since she was a child, and knew she was in love with Renly, therefore knew she didn’t kill him. Some of the lords think she did, once Catelyn did it. Of course, they didn’t see the shadow.
6-Penrose wants a single combat, or one between champions if Stannis doesn’t want to fight. Stannis said he will win anyway, he has 20000 men with him. He said the red god killed Renly, and Penrose would be hanged for treason if he didn’t accept terms. I loved his reply: “As the gods will it. Bring on your storm, my lord-and recall, if you do, the name of this castle.” . He won’t give in.
7-Stannis talked to Davos while Melisandre was present. She carried the banner, and Davos thought the crowned stag had been swallowed whole by the fiery heart, which can be taken as an analogy. The high lords looked at him with contempt, they still didn’t like him, he was no lord. And Stannis chose to ride with Davos over any of them.
8-Stannis considered bringing Penrose’s father, but Davos thought Cortnay would rather watch his father die than betray his faith. Like it wasn’t obvious by now. Davos sees as a good thing he keeps faith. It’s admirable honestly. It would be so much easier to deliver the boy so Stannis could go, but he won’t give in.
9-While Davos was talking about Penrose’s faith, he asked about the lords he had behind. Davos only told him true, last year were Robert’s, last moon Renly’s, now his, but tomorrow he couldn’t know. Davos was pretty forthright, and told a lot of truths, so he wonder if he went too far. He was talking to his King after all. But Stannis laughed, and said he missed his truths. He didn’t trust his lords it seems.
10-Stannis asked Davos if he still kept his fingers, which he did. Those were his luck, and reminded him about who he was, where he came from and about Stannis’s justice. You can really tell Davos is grateful for everything Stannis did for him. If he’s not the most loyal character in the series, I don’t know who is.
11-Stannis isn’t stupid at all, he knows what every man fights for. Good men and true will fight for Joffrey, wrongly believing him the true king. “A northman might even say the same of Robb Stark. But these lords who flocked to my brother’s banners knew him for a usurper. They turned their backs on their rightful king for no better reason than dreams of power and glory, and I have marked them for what they are. Pardoned them, yes. Forgiven. But not forgotten.” Plus, he knows he’s not loved at all.
12-I didn’t remember Stannis said he loved Renly, and grived for the boy he was, not the man he came to be. I thought they didn’t get along when they were younger? Or maybe Stannis felt different.
13-Davos said people talked about the tales of Cersei and Selyse, but he could not say if they really believed them. He told true again, Stannis can’t stop them for talking. I guess he knows that alredy.
14-Stannis said he wanted justice for Robert, Ned and Jon, and Davos asked if he wanted for Renly as well. Stannis got silent for a momento, and said he loved his brother, and would be going to his grave thinking about Renly’s peach. It almost sounds like he’s sorry.
15-Davos might be a lord for them, just to piss the other lords of. Like, doesn’t Stannis have better things to do? Lol. Stannis knew some of his lords would tell him to attack, the youngest, and the old one to siege, even if it took a year. On the other hand, Davos said he should attack King’s Landing, where the real threat, the Lannisters, are. But Stannis said he can’t leave without taking Storm’s End, people would say he was defeated. Everyone cares so much about what others might say, is pissing me off.
16-Stannis said it would be convenient if Penrose diez, he could take the castle then. Melisandre saw i ton her flames, Penrose will die and not fighthing. She saw other future, when Renly defeated Stannis in King’s Landing. Davos said there couldn’t be two futures, but it seems Stannis is just to deep into Melisandre and her god. The lords didn’t like her either, and whispered, Stannis knew. But she serves, I wodner in how many ways.
17-Davos is supposed to land a boat beneath the castle at night. He knew that meant nothing good, and said there were cleaner ways to do it. But Stannis said he must have Edric Storm. I didn’t know why at this point, and I was so intrigued. Flames don’t lie, said Stannis, but Davos thought they required him to make them true. And thought how sixteen years ago he brought life to Storm’s End, and what he was about to bring now.
18-Melisandre and Davos are on the boat, and he says he fears what she does, but won’t be part of any. Yet he’s there, and Melisandre told him so. She asked if he was a good man, and said he had good and bad things, like we all do. But apparently Melisandre doesn’t believe in greys, a person is good or bad. She is good, but I don’t think a person who burns other alive is good.
19-Davos knew she planned to kill Penrose, and knew killed Cressen, but she said he poisoned himself. Davos thought she killed Renly, but she said she didn’t. He called her liar. He mentioned the god of darkness, and she didn’t like that at all. She seemed scared, and said that god protects no man. Maybe like the Stranger? I don’t remember if he protects, but I don’t know if someone prays to him.
20-Renly was unprotected, but there were spells in Storm’s End. So, she kinda admits she had something to do with Renly’s death. She said shadows only exists if there is light, therefor are a thing of light, not darkness. They went the same way he went 16 years ago, and remembered he saw hungry faces, but know there was all dark in the tunnel. Interesting.
21-She asked if they passed the walls, because of the spells. Suddenly there was light, and Melisandre was naked, heavy with child and she shone. I won’t lie, the first time I didn’t know what the fuck was going on. A shadow cameo ut of her, taller than Davos, and he couldn’t only glimpse it for a momento. But he knew the man who could cast that shadow, and at that point I understood it was Stannis’s shadow.