SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion

Eric Flint wrote: "... The first objective factor is about as simple as gets. The field is simply too damn BIG, nowadays.

...I can remember the days, as a teenager and a young man, when the science fiction section of any bookstore amounted to maybe, at most, one bookcase’s worth of titles. Usually it was only a shelf or two—or, more often than not, just a handful of titles on a revolving wire rack in a drugstore. Today, in any major bookstore in the country, the F&SF section is huge in comparison.

Forty or fifty years ago—even thirty years ago, to a degree—it was quite possible for any single reader to keep on top of the entire field. You wouldn’t read every F&SF story, of course. But you could maintain a good general knowledge of the field as a whole and be at least familiar with every significant author.

Today, that’s simply impossible. Leaving aside short fiction, of which there’s still a fair amount being produced, you’d have to be able to read at least two novels a day to keep up with what’s being published—and that’s just in the United States. In reality, nobody can do it, so what happens is that over the past few decades the field has essentially splintered, from a critical standpoint."
..."

http://www.ericflint.net/index.php/20...

The preceding is a post from Eric Flint on the Hugo controversy. What truly caught my interest on this particular post when I read it was his thoughts on the genre itself which I have excerpted for this post. His blog made me think about the genre itself and how it has grown since I was a young. I too remember how the Science Fiction section was tiny. One of the great delights in my life was when I walked into a B&N in NYC and saw how many Science Fiction books they had in stock. This was long before the internet and Amazon. Finding books was not easy especially if you lived in areas that did not stock them. Besides buying what you could find, mostly it was trading among friends and cousins of friends including that creepy guy nobody knew what to make of. We were a fringe group back in the day. Now, the genre has exploded. As Eric Flint notes, is is now so large it has splintered.

What Eric Flint noted, the genre is now too big to follow. That made me think about my reading and I realized there are huge swaths of the genre that I know nothing about. I did not know they were even there and have no idea where it all came from. When the genre was much smaller, it was easier to follow what was coming out, now, I do not know most of the authors.

So my question is to everyone, do you read across the genre widely or do you tend to stay in a small section? Do you like more literary works or do you like the guns and explosions end. Do you prefer stand alone novels or series. Short series or longer ones. How about short fiction?

I tend to stay in my little section of the universe. I want to read the book that will be read in 100 years and become classics. I also tend to stay away from schlock. Nothing wrong with that part of the genre, but it is not my cup of tea. I tend to read deeper books studying the human/societal condition. I generally do not mix Science Fiction and Fantasy hybrids. I try and follow about two dozen authors faithfully. I love short stories and stand alone novels, but will read trilogies or quartets, much longer than that I tend to leave the series.

What do you like or prefer. Do you think the genre is in good shape?

The genre is too big for the statement 'it's in good shape'.

I follow authors, but not blindly. Sometimes the story doesn't stretch as far as they try to stretch it.

I read all sorts of areas in the genre. I'm looking principally for authors who will entertain me. If they ask deep questions or are trying to educate me, it'd better be well integrated into a good tale. Much of what people point to as 'literary' fails in that regard, but so do mile-long spaceships and moon-sized explosions.

How do I pick a book? The sample on Amazon has to hook me. To get me to read the sample, the blurb and the reviews (read from the 5 star and the 1 star). Also, recommendations from Goodread readers with similar interests.

And the creepy guy is still worth the occasional recommendation, too.

Mark wrote: "The genre is too big for the statement 'it's in good shape'.

I follow authors, but not blindly. Sometimes the story doesn't stretch as far as they try to stretch it.

I read all sorts of areas in ..."

You brought a up a great point in how you pick a book. The only way I can say how I pick a book is it must catch my attention. Usually it is the blurb. I tend not to read a sample of the book on Amazon or as an addendum on other books because for me it ruins the next book because it makes me feel that I have read it before. I know it makes no sense except to me.

I do listen to recommendations from friends and on other sites.

Some studies have shown that as consumer choices increase, our happiness with those choices decreases. http://brainworldmagazine.com/i-cant-...

When I was young I would find an author I liked and then read everything they wrote. Now I try to read broadly, sampling many different authors across different genres and sub-genres. I want to get as many differing viewpoints as I can stuff into my mealy brain as will fit. I use GR and ratings and friends for recommendations, and sometimes I just pick something and read it, although I usually regret that and don't finish it. I have to admit, it was more fun when I knew who I liked and who I didn't.

I remember the days of limited choices from the spinner rack at the crockery store when many times any SF book was better than none. Now, with super book stores like B&N and Books a Million, the Internet, Amazon and ebooks it's much harder to choose and I am it I often find myself very channelized. There are a dozen or do authors I keep up with but much of my other reading is focused on rereading old favorites. It seems when I do try to branch out and pick up a book based on recommendations or awards, eight times out of ten I end up disappointed.

I freely admit I just don't care for what might be called "mainstream" SF books that focus on social issues or deep personality studies. I like amazing world building, fun characters and a fair amount of action in my stories.

I tend to be attracted mostly to three types of SF novels: space operas with realistic ships and space battles; time travel stories, especially if there are a lot of 'what if'; and military thrillers set in the future. By realistic ships, I do not mean ships with propulsion modes that we can already describe in fair, plausible detail, but rather ships that have technology that are not clearly pure BS nor are described with grandiloquent but utterly meaningless words. I don't really care who the author is, as some well known authors sometime produce books that leave me cold or even make me sneer. Also, series don't bother me, as long as each book doesn't finish on a cliffhanger.

I have favorite authors, and I love to discover new ones and old ones. My Dad was a SF/Fantasy junkie and I would read whatever he was reading after he was finished.

It is harder to choose a book today. I am not usually into vampires and Zombies. I enjoy Artificial Intelligence. I guess I enjoy books that focus on social issues and personality studies. I read reviews on Amazon and here on Goodreads. Sometime there are books that get good reviews and I just didn't find it to be "all that".

I mainly am just reading a few BotM here or in the TT group, the rare random title that catches my eye displayed at the library's 'theme' or 'new' spinner, and catching up on the classics. SF is only one of my favorite genres, so I know there's no way I'll ever think I'm familiar with the genre.

When I first started reading SF I was living in Nairobi, and books were very hard to come by. I found one bookstore that had a whole shelf of SF, but that was only four authors - Asimov, Clarke, Heinlein and Silverberg. So I read a lot of those four.

When I moved to England, I read a lot more widely. I now read anything within the SF and Fantasy fields. I don't care if it is space opera, literary SF, urban fantasy, high fantasy, I'll read it all. I don't limit myself to sub-genres anymore. So I guess you would say I read widely across the whole range that SF/F has to offer.

How do I choose what I will read? I'm a sucker for a good cover. A good cover will catch my eye, and lead me to read the synopsis on the back. If it still sounds good, I'll buy it. If you have a crap cover, the chances are, unless I already know of and like the author, I won't even pick your book up.

What I read at any time depends on various factors, such as:

1. If I'm following an online book club (like this one), and the monthly pick looks interesting from the description, I'll read that.

2. If it's my sister's book club, it doesn't matter the genre (sadly it's mostly NOT SF or Fantasy), I HAVE to read that, or I'll never hear the end of it ;)

I will echo some sentiment from above that there is so much choice in SF and Fantasy, it can be overwhelming. Thanks to the Internet, and a close friend of mine (NOT a creepy dude) who is a huge fan of Fantasy since she was small child, I am able to screen and narrow down a bit, but my "to read" list is still way too long, and there's no way in Hades I'll be able to grasp most of what SF and Fantasy has to offer.

As for what all this choice means for the state of SF and Fantasy as a whole, like TV/movie options, I feel like having too much choice makes it difficult to share thoughts with other people, unless you specifically seek out something that others are reading at the same time. So I guess I agree with the sentiment of SF and Fantasy being "splintered".

I share Eric Flint's memory and sentiments. The field is simply too big to keep up with. I don't consider that a bad thing, particularly when I consider the new Indie additions that cut new channels in the stream. I used to follow several authors, but now IMO a lot of what the mainstream cranks out is a rehash of the author's last (or last two) book(s). So I tend to (1) go back to the "classics;" (2)read the blurb, the reviews, and a sample of the book itself before I commit my time and money to it; and yes, (3) I tend to avoid certain subgenres which I have found uninspiring.
Primarily, I look for good writing. Intriguing story lines. Good character development, characters that grow or change, interesting plot twists. Though I am not averse to space opera or pure entertainment, a message I can relate to is a big plus.

Papaphilly wrote: "stay away from schlock"

Maybe you should define which of the spectrum you consider to be in this group.

My father was in USAF stationed in Europe when I started reading SF in about the 7th grade. There was one bookshelf in the library, and no bookstores. Got me hooked on Andre Norton and time travel. When we returned to the US and I started HS, I had subscriptions to Analog and Amazing.

I think I'm stuck in the space opera, time travel, hard science mode; fantasy does very little for me. I do like Larry Niven and Wm. Gibson's stuff, but it's hard to find new authors I understand, much less appreciate.

Bill wrote: "Papaphilly wrote: "stay away from schlock"

Maybe you should define which of the spectrum you consider to be in this group.

M father was in USAF stationed in Europe when I started reading SF in ab..."


I am in what I have been told is the elitist end. I want to read the the literary end of the spectrum. The books I want are the ones that take deep thinking. What I define as schlock is the space gun, alien, pretty girl, black hat, white hat. Maybe an example is better. Mac Bolan or Doc Savage. Star Trek, X-Files, or Star Wars novels. Most low end zombie novels. The never ending series.

Please understand, I am not knocking any of these books or the people that read these books. They sell a ton of these books and they are extremely popular. I read them on occasion, I tend to stay away because it is not my cup of tea.

Michel wrote: "...space operas with realistic ships and space battles..."

I was an engineer and have kept a lifelong interest in technology alongside a lifelong amusement of the strangely echoing vacuum of space and the contortions of authors beating that light speed limitation.

To take a series as example, Weber's Honor Harrington, that's probably 'schlock' by the definition here, and it was a background amusement to me to watch the desperate work by the author in book 2 and subsequent to overcome the silly physics of book 1. However, with the story, Weber managed to relegate the amusement to the background, which is almost as good as a suspension of disbelief.

I think the assertation that the market used to be so small that one could keep up with the industry is a bit wrong. I'd say rather that distriubution of SF used to be so restricted that one could easily keep up with most of the industry in one locale.

45-50 years ago, or even 30 years ago, you could not easily find books in the US from non-US SF authors. Even today it's difficult in bookstores to find anything outside of the biggest names in the industry from other countries. In the '70s you might have been able to find Stanislaw Lem. Now you might be able to find Iain M. Banks, Alastair Reynolds, and Peter F. Hamilton. But beyond that, I think foreign authors are still rather difficult to source anywhere other than online.

And it's online distribution that has opened things up. Everything from everywhere is available now pretty much. And, of course, anyone can publish and distribute.

But this is true of all genres not just SF. So it's not necessarily that "the genre" has grown too big, but rather that distribution has done so.

As far as how I read...well, that's changed over the years.

As a kid, I found authors from random searches in the library. Once I found an author I liked (e.g. Vonnegut), I'd look for anything they wrote.

Later, my friends became more important. Tolkien, Greg Bear, Frank Herbert, and some others became known to me through friends.

Later still it was hours spent in used bookstores. My method of picking a book went like this:

1) Is the book in good shape (not old and smelly)?
2) Does the cover look appealing?
3) Does the summary sound appealing (not cliché or camp)
3) Read first page; read random spot in the middle; read a section with mainly dialog...can they write?

Since then I've learned not to take my friends' word for it and investigate books even upon recommendations from close friends. We often don't like the exact same thing in the same genre.

I use pretty much the same method as the used bookstore method now for online, only of course I don't have to worry about getting a stinky old yellow-brown, crumbly, dust mite-ridden copy.

I don't do fantasy anymore, just SF.

I got stuck in just reading authors I know for years and have recently started branching out. But I still look for the same kinds of works. I like lots of ideas, weird twists, and a good dose of mind f-ing. But am also fine with ligher humorous works, and even some fairly mainstream detective mysteries in space.

But I'm still looking for the next Hyperion. That's really my ideal: complex, rich, deep story with a good mix of character exploration and action without eschewing literary and cultural elements.

Well...and Philip K. Dick. More like that, please (as if that was going to happen again).

Oh...and I've been buying a few eBook bundles lately, which is a good way to get a shotgun spray of various authors you haven't read before. Haven't found anything amazing that way, but have found some light entertainment I wouldn't have otherwise.

Micah wrote: "Oh...and I've been buying a few eBook bundles lately, which is a good way to get a shotgun spray of various authors you haven't read before. Haven't found anything amazing that way, but have found ..."

I read allot of short story anthologies for the very reason of finding different talent. I figure if they can write short stories, they can write.

Mark wrote: "Michel wrote: "...space operas with realistic ships and space battles..."

I was an engineer and have kept a lifelong interest in technology alongside a lifelong amusement of the strangely echoing ..."

Not having read Honor Harrington books, I have no idea if they are schlock or not, but they have sold tons and there are at least two conventions in honor of the books. These books are very popular and they are for good reason, people like them.

let me try and use an analogy, the summer blockbuster. the first summer blockbuster was "Jaws." It is also an excellent movie that still holds up when viewed forty year later. Well directed and well acted, great backstory and thought provoking. So what is schlock to me? Fast and Furious franchise. Now do not get me wrong, they are fun, but they are popcorn for the eyes. Fast cars, lots of action, pretty girls, great car chases, tough guys, but not deep thought and I enjoy them for what they represent.

For me, it is not about award winners. It is about great writing that makes me think deeply. If you ever want to read something eye opening, look at the books the were published in any given year, then look at the award nominees and then finally look at the award winners. You will be surprised at how many modern classics did not win an award and how many that did win faded into obscurity.

Papaphilly wrote: "So my question is to everyone, do you read across the genre widely or do you tend to stay in a small section? Do you like more literary works or do you like the guns and explosions end. Do you prefer stand alone novels or series. Short series or longer ones. How about short fiction? "

I'm omnivorous when it comes to SF. Too much of the same thing, no matter what it is, tends to end up like eating mac'n'cheese every night forever.

What's wrong with mac'n'cheese?
Just joking, but I could eat BBQ chicken every day, the same I would read time travel stories every day. The only better thing to reading time travel stories for me is to write some.

Micah wrote: "45-50 years ago, or even 30 years ago, you could not easily find books in the US from non-US SF authors. Even today it's difficult in bookstores to find anything outside of the biggest names in the industry from other countries. In the '70s you might have been able to find Stanislaw Lem. Now you might be able to find Iain M. Banks, Alastair Reynolds, and Peter F. Hamilton. But beyond that, I think foreign authors are still rather difficult to source anywhere other than online."

I used to read a number of authors from other countries. I read quite a few British and Australian SF writers back in the 1970s and 80s, for instance, but also French and German. (I mean, Perry Rhodan is universal and inescapable.)

Russian authors were big in the 70s, too. I remember when Roadside Picnic came out sometime around the time of Star Wars, followed soon after by the movie adaptation, Stalker.

That was also the first big invasion of Japanese manga and anime, so we got stuff like Akira.

Not as much as is available today, of course, but these were all things that were readily available in bookstores, because it's not like I was able to shop exotically while riding my bike in Ohio.

Michel wrote: "I could eat BBQ chicken every day"

Try it for two months, then get back to me. :p

Micah wrote: "I've been buying a few eBook bundles lately"

Haven't tried that. How does it work, and where do you find them?

Bill wrote: "Micah wrote: "I've been buying a few eBook bundles lately"

Haven't tried that. How does it work, and where do you find them?"

StoryBundle has one going right now:

https://storybundle.com/scifi

They tend to cycle through themes. I also follow the Humble Book Bundle, which periodically has sci-fi related/relevant collections.

Also, they aren't technically "bundles", but if you're into "vintage" science fiction, run a search for "science fiction megapack" on Amazon.

It tends to be a combination of things including whether the Goodreads reviews are close to five stars, Amazon reviews or whether I enjoyed another book in the series. There are times when I just download sci fi onto my Kindle as it is free and it got four stars and above.

Like Papaphilly I get a kick out of stuff that's just for fun, but I seek out the stories that dig deeper and provoke more thought. That usually means following the authors I know will deliver, then checking out reviews in magazines, and reading a lot of descriptions based on recommendations from Amazon etc. I don't put a lot of weight on reader's ratings because they vary so much, but you can tell more from the written reviews.
I pick a fair number of books from seeing the authors at cons, but I very rarely read a book just because it's free.

I rarely, if ever, hear about a great book and immediately open it up. Often I find that I'm jumping by the subject I'm thinking/dreaming about. I'll get into a time travel novel because I've been thinking about it a ton and then I turn to that book I've always wanted to read or one that a friend mentioned. Sometimes I'll read multiple books at a time, covering the same subject. Then, when my mind begins to wander onto other subjects, like space travel, aliens, bleak futures, new takes on the past, etc, then I often turn to that. But it's really my curiosity leading the way. Luckily, sci-fi has gotten so broad, it makes it easy to find something that fits the mood.

I am not really adventurous with SF, so I usually stick with lists of must-read, or more rarely I read some really hyped books on the blogs I follow.

While I read more randomly with Fantasy, some really popular, some with a small audience, and more likely some of the current year.

Bill wrote: "Micah wrote: "I've been buying a few eBook bundles lately"

Haven't tried that. How does it work, and where do you find them?"

Mostly I've found them on twitter. I follow a bunch of SF authors and some of them like Kristine Kathryn-Rusch organize their own bundles through places like Humble Bundle. They're often "pay what you like" but offer extra books if you pay at least a certain amount. It always comes out to a good deal in $/book terms.

Like anything else ... I begin at the beginning, go on till I come to the end, then stop. :)

Except if I really liked it, in which case I may read it again.

I rely on the various gatekeeping and filtering mechanisms that exist in any large industry: award nominations, reviews, ratings, best-of lists, bestseller lists, recommendation algorithms, word of mouth. I joined this book club so that it could function as one of those gatekeepers for me. The problem is not really all that different from buying any other consumer item. Fortunately, the explosion in available choices has been matched by greater communication and ease of research, thanks to the Internet.

Michel wrote: "What's wrong with mac'n'cheese?
Just joking, but I could eat BBQ chicken every day..."

The problem for me is that I can't. Last year I 'discovered' Scalzi but despite him being a present favourite I can't read more than 2 books on the trot. After that I have to change pace or get bored.

As a child I loved Nicholas Fisk, John Wyndham and John Christopher but nobody told me they were scifi. And Joan Aitken was Steampunk before it was a genre.
Only as an adult did I start trying to improve my scifi range and venture beyond Asimov and Herbert and 20 years later I am still exploring.
I try to read classics for the background but they are so dated and modern scifi has so much to offer.
So far I find military scifi most enjoyable and literary scifi is most disappointing while a good dystopia will always get my attention.

I also rely on reviews and ratings, mostly from our beloved Good Reads. I share the thoughts of many, I'm 67 and have read sci fi since 4th grade. Choices back then were limited. Really many of us hoped the library chose wisely. Most of us went through the buy a paperback era, hoping stores picked winners, and then Costco chose for us. Now with e-readers and nearly unlimited stories available, we have reached a "Brave New World". Add in our own style, as in if I start a book I have to finish it feeling, choosing is much more important than the old days. I don't won't to invest hours reading crap. With the explosion of e publishing their so many great stories to be had.
For a great many of us we don't want the same old story lines. I want something that adds new thoughts or at least very hard to guess endings.

“A mind needs books as a sword needs a whetstone, if it is to keep its edge.”
― George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones

Rbjumbob wrote: "I also rely on reviews and ratings, mostly from our beloved Good Reads. I share the thoughts of many, I'm 67 and have read sci fi since 4th grade. Choices back then were limited. Really many of us ..."

Aside of being a Luddite, I read paper in part to avoid the amounts of crap out there in the net. Lots of great stories and lots more piles of dreck.

"Do you think the genre is in good shape?"

No, but this determination is only coming from my personal perspective obviously.

The genre is full of fluff, much of it pushing blatant SJW agendas (climate, gender, haves vs have nots, etc). Note: I have no problem with fiction trying to enlighten readers, but don't blatantly bash me over the head with your viewpoint to the point it feels like I'm sitting in a dark room with a bright light shining in my face being indoctrinated.

Also, there are very few people of science actually writing science fiction anymore. This leads to, honestly, crap science fiction.

Finally, bloated series is just killing science fiction for me (already killed fantasy). If I look at my GR reading stats and pull up the chart that shows date read vs. date published, over the years I'm going back further in time to find decent, standalone science fiction to read. I'm always open to new athors/works, but inevitably if I pick up an interesting book off a shelf (or Amazon) and see that it's Book 5 of the "best selling" Edkaiiidly Series! I just sigh and put it back on the shelf.

The signal to noise ratio in the genre is getting VERY low, making it risky to invest time in books/series that will end up being mediocre at best. Maybe I should just focus on the short story market...?

Neal, how did you get in my head? ;-) You said exactly what I think about the new(er) sci fi genre.

Unfortunately, I don't enjoy short stories so that is not an escape for me. Honestly, I've been reading less and less Sci-Fi over the last decade until now, I only pick up the occasional one.

It made a huge difference when people of science were writing in this genre.

Fabi wrote: "Neal, how did you get in my head? ;-) You said exactly what I think about the new(er) sci fi genre.

Unfortunately, I don't enjoy short stories so that is not an escape for me. Honestly, I've been..."

Neal wrote: ""Do you think the genre is in good shape?"

No, but this determination is only coming from my personal perspective obviously.

The genre is full of fluff, much of it pushing blatant SJW agendas (cl..."

If you read the link I posted, Eric Flint talks about the rise of series vs. the decline of the stand alone. According to Eric, it is the market that is dictating the series and evidently it is getting harder to publish the stand alone. I do not read long series except for a few that somehow caught me. I too do not pick up a novel if it is book 1 or book 99. If I read a series, it is usually no longer than 4 novels and that is really rare.

The series thing is just market forces at work. It's the same free-market capitalism that destroyed the short story market. That's the way things cycle in culture: one day you're up, the next you're down. Most people want series now, so that's what publishers and independent writers are giving them.

Science Fiction has always been forward-looking, which nowadays translates into "liberal agenda", but that's only when you view the world from a political slant rather than from a scientific one.

It's almost impossible to find any golden age SF authors who wouldn't be considered liberal in today's political climate. Asimov, Clarke, Heinlein, Bradbury, Poul Anderson, Pohl, Sturgeon... it's difficult to find anyone who would align with the current extreme conservatism.

As soon as anyone blows the dogwhistle of "SJW agenda" you've lost me in the discussion. There's no "agenda" to climate change or giving equal rights to everyone; those are nonsense neocon talking points.

I'm not surprised Larry Niven has become a victim of the Brain Eater as his anti-global warming inclination has erupted into a full-blown crusade, because all of his family money comes from oil. On top of that he's rich because of his writing, and it's been proven time and again that having more money makes you more conservative. Ignoring reality because your mind has been affected by money, that is an agenda. The science is settled, and once you politicize facts and give them a spin, you've lost the argument and are on the wrong side of history.

So many different points of view on how to choose a book and what to look for. I agree with Micah on how to choose a book . I stared reading SC Fi in the 50’s and have kept a few of the old classics.
I have a few categories of reading: books that get me enthralled ; books that are re reads and therefore light , like a comfortable evening when you just want to zone out; and fluff.
For me the fluff is for those times I haven’t really got time to read but MUST read something. I usually have 3 books going at a time , one from each group.
I have an advantage of some of you, I get books lent to me from 5 nephews and nieces who thank me for introducing them to this genre years ago and now “lend “ me lots and lots of books. Often I will have 50 books waiting . a good series and I will buy it and re read at a slower pace a few years later.
So I feel that if I am interested by the 4th chapter I will read the book. I don’t really want deep and meaningful all the time, usually I just like to be entertained and the faster the story goes the better. But I get really cross if the story line is inconsistent. I don’t care if the original rules are “wrong” just as long as it is consistent. So bring on our vamps, werewolves etc. Love space , time travel .
My science background doesn’t mean I can’t enjoy pure fantasy in a science field.

Trike wrote: "It's almost impossible to find any golden age SF authors who wouldn't be considered liberal in today's political climate. Asimov, Clarke, Heinlein, Bradbury, Poul Anderson, Pohl, Sturgeon... it's difficult to find anyone who would align with the current extreme conservatism."

I agree there and that doesn't necessarily mean the writers had to be liberal by today's standards. SF has traditionally been a genre where alternatives are explored, not just in technology, but also in culture and politics.

"What if there was a society where [insert any fringe social experiment] was the norm?" is something SF has pretty much always done. And anything that swings extremely wide of the current social norm is bound to be considered deviant, and therefore not conservative.

Trike wrote: "The series thing is just market forces at work. It's the same free-market capitalism that destroyed the short story market. That's the way things cycle in culture: one day you're up, the next you'r..."

The very best and most thoughtful Science Fiction has always studied society and commented on the foibles. The genre breaks into many categories today and it is hard to try and broad brush the entire genre as "liberal agenda". There are plenty of right, left, and Libertarian leaning writers making very good livings. Heinlein would be considered Libertarian today and maybe right leaning. The golden age of Science Fiction was considered a conservative medium at that time and hard right by the liberal standards, but liberal from the hard right standards of today. Much of the golden age is considered misogynistic today and that certainly is not liberal. Starting with the liberalization of the 1960's did Science Fiction move toward the left.

As for SJW's, they exist. Guess what, both ends of the spectrum have them. Want to know who they are, they are the people that it is never enough no matter how much progress is made in their direction. They are the people that are right because they determine that they have the only truth. They are the first to call names when you have the temerity to disagree. They are the ones that use sentences such as "you are talking in code, we know what you really mean." They are the people that claim others have an agenda because it does not agree with their agenda. There is no room in their world for debate because they claim an issue is closed, whether it is or not. They are the people that cannot understand that some people will not agree with their world view for legitimate reasons.

Still that being said, I have no idea the politics any author carries, nor do I. I just care about the stories.

I love the fact that sci-fi and fantasy have exploded and has bled over into other genres. Young Adult Sci-Fi/Fantasy has a huge selection and draws many authors who normally write adult fare. There are entire subgenres in Romance that cross over into sci-fi/fantasy.

As someone with a sociology degree, I'm more interested in the social aspects of sci-fi then the toys. How does interplanetary travel affect our civilizations? If you see the apocalypse coming, what happens to law and order? The best social sci-fi doesn't give you answers but give you "what ifs". They strip away our pat answers on why "the way it is" is correct by changing up the variables and present you with a question, but not an answer. Sheri S Tepper is marvelous at this.

I'm also a big fan of the "one off" versions of our world and near future stories. Life starts out pretty similar to our world, but hey, zombies are real and a burning issue for our presidential election.

I don't see why anyone needs to feel like they should have the whole field under their belt unless they work in the industry. It's not a degree program, it's a form of entertainment. I for one love the variety of voices and styles now available for readers.

Lara Amber wrote: "I love the fact that sci-fi and fantasy have exploded and has bled over into other genres. Young Adult Sci-Fi/Fantasy has a huge selection and draws many authors who normally write adult fare. Ther..."

love your comments , and I have a science (physics ) background. I like the way society is affected. But any book that doesn't entertain but is bogged down in facts I stop reading.

Someone once said -- don't bother looking this up because the only real reference comes from me 20-some years ago, so maybe I'm the one who said it originally -- that a good science fiction writer invents the car, while a great science fiction writer comes up with the traffic jam.

That's the aspirational goal all SF writers should have.

Lara Amber wrote: "I'm also a big fan of the "one off" versions of our world and near future stories. Life starts out pretty similar to our world, but hey, zombies are real and a burning issue for our presidential election.

Have you heard of Feed by Mira Grant?

Trike wrote: " so maybe I'm the one who said it originally -- that a good science fiction writer invents the car, while a great science fiction writer comes up with the traffic jam. ..."

Whether you said it or not, it is a great line.

Bruce wrote: "Lara Amber wrote: "I'm also a big fan of the "one off" versions of our world and near future stories. Life starts out pretty similar to our world, but hey, zombies are real and a burning issue for our presidential election.

Have you heard of Feed by Mira Grant? "

That's what I was referencing. :)

Mira Grant is a really good writer, I think.

I pressed return too soon, so to continue. . . I'm not a big fan of zombie stories, but Grant's books are an exception. I like her characters and her plots are more intelligent than some, and her ideas are original