Finnegans Wake Grappa discussion

"The Wake, she be a swift and sterne current." -- Geoffrey von Wiltstown.

In addition to the swift-sterne doubling, several of Swift's works make more than mere punning appearance. Most urgently of course are Tale of a Tub, The Journal to Stella, and that book concerning yahoos and houyhnhnms and other despicable creatures. Also, don't miss The Drapier's Letters. Any other swiftly standing sternely out books?

Nathan "N.R." wrote: ""The Wake, she be a swift and sterne current." -- Geoffrey von Wiltstown.

In addition to the swift-sterne doubling, several of Swift's works make more than mere punning appearance. Most urgently ..."

Tale of a Tub, she was most prominent in the Taverny in Feast, with Butt and Taff a-tubbing! I've only read that one buch with the horses and the minifolks, and that was a long weil ago, but I should refreshen with my Wakening!

It helps me, when trying to understanding what Tale of a Tub may have meant to Joyce and why he used it so often, to try and first understand what Swift may have meant.

In The Preface, Swift gives a partial explanation:
He writes:

"...seamen have a custom when they meet a Whale to fling him out an empty Tub, by way of amusement, to divert him from laying violent hands on the Ship."

He goes on to explain:

"This parable was immediately mythologised, the Whale was interpreted to be Hobbes's "Leviathan" (...) "The Ship...to be its old antitype the commonwealth."

Then, rather coyly it seems, he concludes:

"But how to analyse the Tub was a matter of difficulty,...the literal meaning was preserved,...in order to prevent these Leviathans from tossing and sporting with the commonwealth,...they should be diverted from that game by a "Tale of a Tub."

So what does this mean to me?

The Ship=the commonwealth=Ulysses.
The Whale=the Leviathans=critics+puritans
A Tub=A Tale of a Tub=Finnegans Wake.

So I think Finnegans Wake wasn't meant to be taken seriously, but was used as a decoy to mis-direct the audience while he was trying to get Ulysses un-banned.

Very interesting thoughts. I have never believed that Finnegans Wake was intended to be taken as seriously as Ulysses.
I do think that the banning of Ulysses had a big impact on Joyce and that FW was his way of getting back at his critics. It seems to me that within obscurity he was able to write more openly and honestly. If you make a work very hard to crack than only your true devoted fans will spend the time to unlock the secrets. Those are the people Joyce wanted to reach with Finnegans Wake, I believe. The ones who wouldn't rush to judgement but rather take their time in order to understand what he was trying to say.

Thank you, Harry. Yes. Designed for his most enthusiastic fans. I can enjoy re-reading FW without understanding it; just because Joyce wrote it.
I agree FW's obscurity hides a bold, new brazenness in his writing.

" It seems to me that within obscurity he was able to write more openly and honestly. "

Well, I think this is true, I do think part of FW is as a defense mechanism to avoid the censors. If the censors can't interpret, then they can't censor! So the work is a labor of love.