Zombies! discussion
Why The Surge in Zombie Popularity? Is It Because We're Afraid God's Dead?
Zombies have been my monsters of choice since I was allowed to watch Night of the Living Dead at an incredibly inappropriate young age. I just assumed people were finally catching up with me :)I consider it a cleansing of the horror genre's cultural palate status-post sparkly vampire phase.
Is It Because We're Afraid God's Dead?For me, just the opposite.
I think my lifelong fascination with horror stories is that if I could convince myself that absolute evil exists, it would mean that absolute goodness probably exists.
I think the current wave of zombie love comes from the fact that we have never been closer to a true apocalypse. War, weather, terrorists, etc. In order to have a cathartic experience (which is where the horror genre excels) we need to enter places that are darker than our current reality. The zombie world being post-apocalyptic is that place.
The surge in zombie apocalypse popularity might have something to do with the economy. I think more and more people are struggling to make ends meet and might feel like they already live in the end of times. The apocalypse takes away everything we currently have to stress about, money, jobs, education, plastic food. It also levels the playing field—everyone who survives apocalypse is relatively equal again, except for those who can fight.
The world becomes survival of the fittest instead of survival of the richest.
I think zombie genre has caught on because of the economic stress in the world. It has to do with basic survival and a monster(s) that doesn't discriminate against age color, weight, popularity or a number of other typical biases; however, I love zombies since a late Friday night in 1979 watching NOTLD. It has given many the nightmares since. I love reading it because I am so much more engrossed. The detail and pictures my mind makes out weigh what any movie will be able to do visually, ever.....
Zombies offer a fat free outlet for the aggression that most of us hold towards our fellow man. They look like humans, but they are little more than robots.As for the god's will comment, I don't quite see how you've come to that conclusion.
The horror of zombies is in some respects about mindless conformity to the pressures of society and the attempts of the herd to crush outliers. One might better argue that buying into the bronze aged superstitions is more metaphorically equivalent to the zombie meme.
K has a good point. I think part of the appeal of the genre is that it provides a reset button so that we all get to start from scratch. However, I think in conjunction with that, zombie apocalypse fiction is popular because it plays to our worst fears--a total collapse of society and the societal framework that we have come to rely on. While K is correct in saying that we would become allies with people who in the past we would never have talked to, it also means that there are people out there who will no longer have any restraint and will allow their basest nature to taker over. Look how rapidly New Orleans devolved into anarchy after Katrina.
I liked Joe's thoughts on this, I had never looked at it in that way. but it makes sense.For me I guess it's the thought that things could be worse than the issues and problems that we live with day to day.
I'll throw in my two cents. It looks to me like the "surge" isn't all that great in size compared with the same surges seen in other genres thanks to the proliferation of self-publishing. Other boards go on and on about being tired of vampires and hunger games knock-offs, and don't get them started on sharknado spin-offs. We're just seeing more zombies because there are more in general, but I don't think our little niche is particularly under siege.
god's not dead but this entire group is
God's not dead, but with all of the new deadly viruses around, zombies become more believable every day.
God's not dead, but with all of the new deadly viruses around, zombies become more believable every day.
I like the survival aspect of a zombie apocalypse. Religion really isn't a factor in my enjoyment of zombie (or any) fiction.
God's been dead since Candide was published in 1759. Zombies have only been popular since NOTLD was unleashed in 1968.You know what else was popular in 1968? The Population Bomb.
The recent uptick in Z popularity is our subconscious worry that we are the problem. What took a visionary with a shaky command of statistics to understand in the 1960's is nibbling at the edge of every-man's awareness in the 20-teens. Zombie stories allow us to solve the overcrowding problem in the most brutal way possible, process our grief over that solution, and absolve the guilt over circumventing our own naturally selected natures. It is catharsis in a westerns vein.
Every society has something that scares it badly. It is very interesting to see how different cultures look at what scares them. Look at Spain's horror movies and American horror movies, they are very different.i think right now Zombies are so popular becasue they represent the turning of something familiar into something terrifying. How many books mention that a loved one turned into a zombie and tries to eat a victim that it no longer recognizes except as food. Even ifthey survive, they are badly scarred.
to me it is much more important to look at the underlying culture that has produced zombies. I think it is the lousy economic times that have scarred everyone so bad. If you do not have a job, your life is terrible and you struggle with the rest of the crowd trying to find work. If you have a job, you worry about losing your job and joining the masses of the unemployed. That sad part is there is really no solution right now and you have to survive it.
So what plot did I just explain? A horde of unemployed (zombies) looking for work (wandering around) and the employed (uninfected) afraid of becoming unemployed (infected) and join the ranks of the unemployed (turning into a zombie).
The 1950's gave us alien invasion films which were either fifth column or cold war films. Back in the 1960's when NOTLD was released, there was a massive societal upheaval and traditional families did not recognize the new order. NOTLD was certainly a societal statement as well as a well made film. The 1970's saw lots of movies about technology gone wrong, dying Earth, and overpopulation. This was the time of the early Earth Day movement and Ecology awareness just started for the masses. the 1980's were technology gone wrong and nuclear war. The 1990's were pretty quiet and then 2001 and it is plenty of terrorist movies and now zombies.
Papaphilly wrote: " A horde of unemployed (zombies) looking for work (wandering around) and the employed (uninfected) afraid of becoming unemployed (infected) and join the ranks of the unemployed (turning into a zombie)."I'm in an area that has, so far, escaped the worst ravages of that which shall not be referred to as a depression, so this argument didn't occur to me. I like it, but still think of it as a symptom of the deeper problem of living in a world with more and more humans with fewer and fewer jobs for them to do.
Are zombies big in Spain and Greece right now?
That is funny. About Spain and Greece. There is this Apocalypse Z: The Beginning of the End, the story of a Spanish lawyer fighting off the un-dead in his condo complex.
I think that zombies are popular because they combine at least two different ideas - they are both scary and liberating.The scary part probably doesn't need much explanation. Zombies are yucky dead things. They are (virtually) unstoppable. They feel no pain or pity. They might be a relative or a friend, they want to eat you.
Early zombie books and films focused mostly on this theme of scaring us. But then a new theme started to emerge where a post apocalyptic world could be a liberating and enjoyable place to be. You can do what you want. There are no rules to stop you. You can take anything you want from shops or people's houses.
Zombies fit into that world because they are ultra convenient bad guys. You can shoot a zombie without any feeling of remorse or morality. It's okay because they're already dead. They don't have feelings. They are worthless.
This dual nature means that zombies appeal to us on many levels. We probably all feel that there is something wrong with the world, but we can't quite say what it is. We want more freedom but there are all these rules about what we can say and do. We would like a simpler world where we could solve all our problems and take whatever material goods we want.
Zombies represent both what we are afraid of and what we want to achieve. Problem and solution, all wrapped up into one convenient foot-shuffling moany knee-cap nibbler.
S. K. wrote: "Papaphilly wrote: " A horde of unemployed (zombies) looking for work (wandering around) and the employed (uninfected) afraid of becoming unemployed (infected) and join the ranks of the unemployed (..."don't know about Greece, but the Spanish did put out REC before the American version and REC all four had zombies.
S. K. wrote: "Papaphilly wrote: " A horde of unemployed (zombies) looking for work (wandering around) and the employed (uninfected) afraid of becoming unemployed (infected) and join the ranks of the unemployed (..."I love Alaska when I visited. Not looking for an argument, but if you took everyone on the planet and put them into Texas, you would end up with the density of New Jersey where I live. Funny thing about New Jersey, half the state is farm land. The planet is nowhere teetering and we are not going into a Malthusian collapse.
Papaphilly wrote: "... the Spanish did put out REC before the American version and REC all four had zombies."I would have called them demonic possessions, not zombies. The American version, Quarantine, was closer to zombies, since it was based on a biological infection (a type of rabies?).
Oddly enough, Quarantine was not a remake, since they were in production at the same time, starting from the same script.
Jennifer wrote: "That is funny. About Spain and Greece. There is this Apocalypse Z: The Beginning of the End, the story of a Spanish lawyer fighting off the un-dead in his condo complex."I've read this book. Its actually pretty good.
Vince wrote: "Jennifer wrote: "That is funny. About Spain and Greece. There is this Apocalypse Z: The Beginning of the End, the story of a Spanish lawyer fighting off the un-dead in his condo com..."I enjoyed it. I have the other two. Rumor has it that the second one is shit, but in the third everything is redeemed.
Jennifer wrote: " "That is funny. About Spain and Greece. There is this Apocalypse Z: The Beginning of the End, the story of a Spanish lawyer fighting off the un-dead i..."I put it in my TBR.
"Early zombie books and films focused mostly on this theme of scaring us. But then a new theme started to emerge where a post apocalyptic world could be a liberating and enjoyable place to be. You can do what you want. There are no rules to stop you. You can take anything you want from shops or people's houses."
I think this is one of the aspects that has always interested me, not that I have a tendency to petty burglary but certain scenes in film from The Martian Chronicles and The Stand fascinated me. Also starting again from scratch to some extent, which is concentrated on in Survivors. John Wyndham used triffids, but they're interchangeable with zombies as far as protagonists go.
Throw zombies into the mix and you tap into a few more added fears;
1) the familiar actually become the enemy
2) I've been known to lie awake at night thinking about what happens when we die - I'm probably not the only one - zombies don't help.
Something else occurred to me recently. My dad, born in the early 30s used to love Westerns, both films and books. Westerns are usually set around a wandering hero, set against the elements, other gunmen and the indigenous population. They're the only genre of book I ever knew him to read but if he were alive today I'd put money he'd enjoy a bit of Day to day armageddon or The Remaining. I reckon the zombie genre at least partly fills the niche that the western has left.
That's a really good point. I think that the zombie story is evolving. It started out as a fairly small-scale ghost story set in voodoo culture. Then we had the idea of multiple zombies through mass raising of the dead. Then the idea of zombies infecting the living to create more zombies with parallels to viruses or plagues. Then the focus shifted from the outbreak to surviving in the longer term. And more recently we have had themes around other survivors being more dangerous than the zombies themselves.The genre isn't fixed. It is evolving. Or maybe we should say "mutating". Parallels with westerns? Hell, why not?
A zombie book set in the Wild West would be amazing!!!
Samantha wrote: "A zombie book set in the Wild West would be amazing!!!"There are a few I'm aware of:
The Zombie West series
Dead West series
The Red Dust series
The Return of "Autumn" James Gibbons
Skin Trade
The Blessed Resurrection...
I just watched "Pale Rider". I have a fondness for this movie. Can you imagine Clint vs. Zombies?? How great is that.
Oh my there are quite a few thanks so much randy!!! I'll def be checking them out.
Clint vs zombies, that's a dream team and half.Expanding on the western theme - I've also often thought in the event of a zombie uprising, the survivors would be like the early pioneers. I quite enjoyed Little House on the Prairie as a kid but it would have been even better with zombies.
There is a great zombie film based right after the Civil War. It is called Exit Humanity. Very well done.
Papaphilly wrote: "There is a great zombie film based right after the Civil War. It is called Exit Humanity. Very well done."It is available on Amazon to rent. It is not available on Netlfix.
Jennifer wrote: "Papaphilly wrote: "There is a great zombie film based right after the Civil War. It is called Exit Humanity. Very well done."It is available on Amazon to rent. It is not available on Netlfix."
Yes it is, I just checked.
Exit Humanity looks good. Has quite a few good reviews also. Added to my watchlist.
Avoid the Abraham Lincoln Zombie one! (Well, I watched it but it was really pretty bad) It's the one they make to try and fool people who were going to rent the Abraham Lincoln Vampire Hunter movie (Book and Movie are awesome for that one!)
Second the comment above. It was so bad. So. So. Bad.
That's a very interesting philosophical concept. I think it was Nietzsche that said 'God is dead' though I hear that it was said with sadness or even worry rather than any amount of glee. Science has explained many mysteries of the world, and life is a whole lot easier and safer than it used to be. Even in the late 1800s, it was the best time to be alive and the West was the best place to be alive in, at the time. That fact has carried on, granted WWI and WWII were pretty Hellish times in the West but the fact is more true than ever nowadays.We've mastered electricity, we've become connected like never before thanks to the internet, and we can fit computers in our pocket that can give us just about any information known to mankind that we could ever want. If we get sick or injured, the best medicine and equipment that has ever existed is available. There are people in uniforms, trained in the use of firearms with the best training and tactics that have ever existed with the best weaponry available, and they will voluntarily step into harm's way to save you. Do you know anyone in your life like that beyond the Police? Then there are Firemen who will enter a burning building to save a life, that is their job, their purpose they've chosen, and thanks to Capitalism it makes them money which they rightfully earned. They can do it for the good of the community, or they can do it for their own personal gain. Maybe both.
The average person can reasonably expect to reach around age 80, personally that gives me potentially over 50 years, and when you get pregnant you can not only reasonably expect both you and the child to live but the child is highly likely to reach adulthood. Just THAT fact, and the fact we can truthfully say it, is amazing. People used to have a dozen or more children, and maybe in part it's because of lack of birth control, but there's also the fact that for most of human history, it was tragically likely to lose at least some children before they reach adulthood. I myself had lost an uncle in the 70s, before I was born. He was just a kid, but he fell through the ice.
Fewer people see a need for God, and I suspect that's a dangerous thing. There's a concept; we all have a God-shaped hole in our heart. We can fill it with God, sure, and I have. Others? They might try to stuff it with something else. In the 20th century, the powers that be in Russia had filled it with Marxism and Communism, that was the lens by which they decided to look at the world. With God I seek to follow truth and speak no lies. I don't always succeed, and when I catch myself lying it makes me feel weak and disgusting, because lies are cowardly. Why would someone lie? To get something they don't deserve? To avoid taking responsibility for something they did? Maybe it's to keep from hurting someone's feelings... but is that such a good thing? To try and protect someone by leaving them in ignorance... that not only seems cowardly since you can't face unpleasant emotions, but it also seems cruel.
Some people take feminism and try to stuff it in the God-shaped hole, they choose to see women of the West as oppressed victims even though women of the West are the safest and most privileged women to have ever existed in human history. They may also be the biggest and strongest in human history, after all, to my knowledge the average man in WWI was about the same height as a woman now. Compared to even just one century ago much less all the millions that came before it, women are far more physically capable and far more knowledgeable than ever before. Women have accepted roles in MANY fields that had previously been purely dominated by men, and hey, in instances where women got there without having to have the standards lowered for them to get in, right on! That's strength! A female Prime minister in Britain, a female Prime Minister in Canada, a female chancellor in Germany (though the current one is pretty shitty) and very nearly a female President in America even though she was potentially the most corrupt individual to have ever campaigned for that position. Why are we not cheering the unbelievable amount of victories over the past half-century since 2nd-wave feminism?
That's, potentially, the scariest question you could ask a modern feminist. "What did the 2nd-wavers accomplish?" Seeing as the 3rd-wavers seem to be fighting for all the same things, it would seem not much, and I don't think Camille Paglia approves seeing as she was a 2nd-wave feminist in the 60s.
So, with so many people straying away from God and looking for other sources of truth, other lenses by which to view the world... what has come about? Nietzsche had told of the coming tragedies of the 20th century, of all the things that people would stuff that God-shaped hole with. I guess because things are so good now, because death is so limited compared to how it was, people have become complacent. Women are so safe on the streets that people campaign to get rid of the ability to carry firearms for self-defence. In the UK, they won't even allow knives. What is a woman without a knife or any other reasonable weapon, in the face of a man who wishes to do harm and finds himself in a position to do so? In all serious likelihood, a victim. On average 50% the upper body strength of a man, on average 60% the lower body strength of a man... why don't people want women to arm themselves? They get complacent, they say it's unnecessary, I guess they'd rather a woman get raped than a rapist get killed. Me? I intend on teaching my future wife to handle a firearm, and if we're fortunate enough to get to live in America someday, you bet your ass she'll be a strong non-feminist and non-leftist woman who WILL carry. THAT is strength, the REFUSAL to be a victim, meanwhile so many people wish to call themselves such.
Things are already so good, and yet people want to be coddled. A woman failing? It's not her fault, there is no responsibility to accept; patriarchy. A man succeeding? So what? It's not like he earned it, nor does he deserve any praise, even if he hits a bullet with another bullet; patriarchy.
Cultural Marxism... that seems to be what Justin Trudeau has put in his God-shaped hole. Did he choose the best people for the job when he chose those who will lead Canada? No, he chose people based on what's in their pants or under their skirt. Did Angela Merkel, the chancellor of Germany, choose the best people for her country and populous in 2015? No, she opened the floodgates and let massive amounts of illegal immigrants into the country. Now there is crime, there is rape, there is terrorism, and there are no-go zones. In the UK, grooming gangs, and yet they try to silence Tommy Robinson whom has been talking of it for years. Trump? God bless him, he wants to keep the borders secure and protect his countrymen. He faces facts, he sees the threats instead of hiding from them in the name of Cultural Marxism's 'political correctness' which as it turns out tends to require heavy amounts of fiction, silence, and blindness. Trump is not blind, he does not use fiction as his compass, and he is OBVIOUSLY not silent. He speaks of terrorism, and leftists hate it, because they cannot accept the facts of the world. As it turns out not all Muslims are terrorists, but most terrorists are Muslim, and those that aren't Muslim? Often Marxist.
The bombs sent to prominent leftists... he hated Trump, hated that he put the embassy in Jerusalem, and above all he seemed to hate Jews. There are others who hated Jews, one comes to mind. A veteran of WWI, he had reached the status of Corporal. After WWI, he found himself on the streets, poor, but when he looked up he would see wealthy Jewish doctors, lawyers, teachers, and what have you. He saw inequality, and he stewed in his hatred of it... and started the National Socialist Party, the Nazi party. Right-wing? I'm still processing why people call it that, if it is true then it only in part, but I do believe elements of Marxism had been shoved in Hitler's God-shaped hole and it fueled his anti-Semitism. Quite possibly, about 73.5 years after his death, perhaps that same flame with its potentially Marxist central ember had reached out and fueled that anti-Semite to send those bombs. Speculation, but it's possible.
If people don't want God in their God-shaped hole, I think it would be best if they didn't fill it with anything else. Perhaps science, I know someone whom I think has stuffed his God-shaped hole with science as the lens through which to look upon the world. A good fellow, very intelligent, though I'm not sure just how happy he is with his choice. Perhaps it would be better if, rather than using science as the compass by which he directs himself in life, it is God, and then God directs him to his passion of science. I think that would give him more happiness, but his mind is his own, as is his heart, as is that metaphorical hole. He can stuff it with whatever he likes, but at least it's not something that has him following fiction and blindness. At least it isn't feminism, or Marxism (either economical or cultural), or Nazism, or Fascism... I'd like to say that enough harm has been done by those ideologies, but it would seem not. More families must be separated by greedy and selfish mothers, more people must starve in Venezuela, more people must be sent into the North Korean gulags, more exiled and abandoned fathers must be pushed to commit suicide... I mean, a hundred million killed in the 20th century and yet there are still Communists and Marxists? Marxism was still allowed 50 years ago or so in France to be morphed from the economic landscape to the cultural one?
Bourgeoisie, now the White man. Proletariat, now the women and minorities... even though Asian Americans make more money on average than White Americans. Even though more women are going through post-secondary than men. Even though women in fact overall outnumber men. Even though women don't have to worry about conscription even though they've gotten to join the Military if they want, and even though Military standards were lowered to help more women get in. Even though there are no rights that men have that women don't have but the reverse is not true. Even though divorce courts and custody battles favour women DRASTICALLY over men. Even though if a man and a woman commit the same crime, the woman is statistically likely to get HALF the punishment that a man would get. Even though it is Arabs today whom engage in slavery while it is Whites who have abolished it over 150 years ago across the West and were the first in history to my knowledge to KEEP it abolished. Even though it is by and large White men whom have developed the lion's share of the technology we use across not only the West but the WORLD each and every day.
... what's in your God-shaped hole? What's the lens through which you view the world, and the compass by which you guide yourself?
I too have chosen to fill my God shaped hole with my lord Jesus Christ I believe science is a gift from God that like any other gift we must follow the leader of our father in how we use it. I find in humorous that the harder people try to prove God doesn't exist the more they prove he does. Just look at Laminin one of the building blocks of all life on the Earth its shaped just like a cross. Anyway that's my position and personal opinion on the subject thanks for sharing yours!
I don't much care about proving or disproving God. Christianity is about following truth and not telling lies, and I've done my best to adopt this. Christianity is about accepting that life will have suffering however we can do things to try and lessen the suffering in the world. It's about adopting a way of life that is beneficial for you, for those around you, and in a way that would have been beneficial in the past and will be beneficial in the future. There's parts I am having trouble with of course, for instance I'm very much for self-defence with lethal means (meaning firearms primarily) but I definitely think Jesus would urge people not to take up arms and to essentially be a pacifist.So, though I'll never be as perfect and sinless as Christ, as good a man as Christ had been, I've been directing my life via Christianity for quite some time and I'm finding it to be startlingly helpful. I'm a much better individual now than I had been before I got into Christianity, there are still many flaws of course but I definitely know I'm on the right track. I've changed massively over the past decade and even a lot over the last 1.5 years, but it's definitely for the better.
Zombie Novels are just a great backdrop to create epic stories about how individuals cope with disaster and lost. You can take them in any direction you want to as a writer and no one really judges too harshly. They can be supernatural in origin, alien in origin, man made in origin or the origin of the disease can stay a mystery. They're a great and acknowledged platform to set a story on that people can jump in to and have an idea of what they're getting into right up front. They're the trashy romance novels for the masses of people not as interested in heaving bodices and pirates. Although, you can absolutely throw those in there as well!
I don't think it has anything to do with peoples level of belief in an afterlife. I think it has everything to do with people wanting an escape form reality into a realm where people can truly be themselves. They're primal. They're funny. They're good versus evil and every shade of grey in between. all 50 of them in some cases!
"And that's all I got to say about that"....
Good point it is up to the author. I'm a Christian but I also have an extensive collection of zombie books. In fact I am writing one myself with Christian characters. Just like most fiction they are there for all to enjoy!
Given the numerous denominations, it's impossible to know what someone means when they claim to be a "Christian". And several other religions are ultimately based on the same god.How many self-professed Christians have actually read more than 20% or so of the Bible? Or even just the New Testament, since most of the Old Testament seems to no longer apply? How many have actually studied any of the thousands of other religions?
Religion is mostly a result of indoctrination, which is why it is largely determined by cultural and geographical groupings.
And, yes, I'm an atheist:
https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/17095
Speaking of indoctrination, how about this kindergarten graduation ceremony:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gM07q...
"A message of love to the whole world..."
@Randy - So basically religion is like a box of chocolates? :-) As I get older I begin to realize how insightful and culturally relevant the movie Forest Gump really was!
R.S. wrote: "@Randy - So basically religion is like a box of chocolates? :-)"...that someone else has bought for you, and it's the kinds of chocolates THEY like. :)
Books mentioned in this topic
Apocalypse Z: The Beginning of the End (other topics)Apocalypse Z: The Beginning of the End (other topics)
Apocalypse Z: The Beginning of the End (other topics)
Apocalypse Z: The Beginning of the End (other topics)
Candide (other topics)
More...
Which is why horror can kick so much ass! I think Jeff Cohen is totally right in Monster Culture when he says that monsters very often represent our fears. I'm fascinated by the recent surge of zombie movies, tv shows, and books. I think zombie popularity might have a lot to do with the simultaneous rise of scientific understanding and religious doubt: if we're the sum product of our evolved genes, and not of God's will, then we ourselves are just roaming automatons. That's a terrifying prospect, and so is dying, especially if there's no God or heaven waiting for us on the other side. Zombies embody both of these fears: that we're just automata, and that decay, not heaven, is all that awaits us. Confronting zombies on screen or in a book is kind of like staring our fears right in the face. It's no wonder we get so much satisfaction out of seeing their heads get smashed in.
But that's just my theory. Very curious what others think.