Urban Fantasy discussion

Would you be disappointed if you read a PNR book *without* a lot of descriptive sex?

I've been told that one of the trademarks of paranormal romance is the heat factor (and that urban fantasy, otoh, is much tamer).

Just curious. Personally, it wouldn't bother me, but I think some readers would be disappointed if a book was labeled PNR but didn't have the necessary heat.

I wouldn't mind at all. To me, romance is about romance and most sex you read in books isn't all that romantic (or well written). There are some readers who look primarily for the sex and want tons of it. You can't please everybody.

I personally love Urban Fantasy but generally don't like PNR. The only PNR I like is if it is a YA book. A love story is fine, but I don't want to read about sex. I tend to avoid any book described as "hot and steamy" as it tends to be badly written and full of horrible sexual hyperbole.

I'm a fan of the set up and foreplay. I don't mean sexual foreplay exactly. I like the meaningful look and the stolen kiss. I'm ok with less sex if there is more UST and emotional involvement.

Nope. I don't need any sex scenes, to be honest (fade to black is fine), although they also don't turn me off a story. Unless they go on forever with nothing else happening in the story.

Michelle wrote: "Would you be disappointed if you read a PNR book *without* a lot of descriptive sex?

I've been told that one of the trademarks of paranormal romance is the heat factor (and that urban fantasy, oto..."

No! Not at all! I prefer them without descriptive sex. I'd rather sex be insinuated rather than every graphic detail described to me. My favourite PR Urban fantasy books are Jane Yellowrock and Mercy Thompson. I like there to be some kind of romance in the book I am reading, however I don't like it if the relationship is all the book is about. There has to be some other kind of story

Nope. I prefer to read fan fiction for sex scenes.

Nah, PNR is all about the romance and building of emotions. Newer books just shove tons of sex in them so they sell. When you have a ton of sex scenes you lose a lot of what makes the story, it takes it out of PNR and moves it into erotica IMO.

"No! Not at all! I prefer them without descriptive sex. I'd rather sex be insinuated rather than every graphic detail described to me. "

I agree, Jalilah and Lanie. Sex isn't a 'story line' and it is a shame to see books turning into erotica when what you wanted was a good PNR.

Sex is a normal part of everyday life so to have it included when there is a relationship seems normal. Do books go out of there way to avoid eating or sleeping? If they do, there should be a plot reason as to why. The same goes for sex if a relationship is present. When books go out of their way to avoid sex, the story often seems convoluted or odd. Fading to black is a cop out. It says more about the author's comfort level than the characters'.

I know a number of UF books which would benefit from some sex, and I think it would be wrong to label a book PNR without some heat. However, the book doesn't have to be wall to wall explicit detail. If there is sex in the book, it had better be done well. Crappy erotica books are a dime a dozen.

Nope. If I want to read a lot of descriptive sex, I will read erotica :D. For me, sex just a bonus, even I will feel disappointed after read so many sexual tension yet the actual sex is fade to black

Half of what I read is YA and has no sex. I like a good book that is entertaining. With or without is then fine with me if the story is great.

Margo (DamesUnrestrained.blogspot.com) wrote: "Sex is a normal part of everyday life so to have it included when there is a relationship seems normal. Do books go out of there way to avoid eating or sleeping? If they do, there should be a plot ..."

I agree with this. I don't mind the idea of two characters having sex, but I was curious if the actual act needed to be described. I've read some pretty bad sex scenes that have taken me right out of the story.

Margo (DamesUnrestrained.blogspot.com) wrote: "Sex is a normal part of everyday life so to have it included when there is a relationship seems normal. Do books go out of there way to avoid eating or sleeping? If they do, there should be a plot ..."

Actually that is why I discontinued the Dresden Files. Poor Harry Dresden never seems to sleep or having any kind of relationships or even eat! He just gets beaten up!

Feral wrote: "I'm a fan of the set up and foreplay. I don't mean sexual foreplay exactly. I like the meaningful look and the stolen kiss. I'm ok with less sex if there is more UST and emotional involvement."

Agree.

Lanie wrote: "Nah, PNR is all about the romance and building of emotions. Newer books just shove tons of sex in them so they sell. When you have a ton of sex scenes you lose a lot of what makes the story, it tak..."

Well said.

I am not sure I care. I like intimacy in my stories and if the book is centered on a relationship then I want to see it expressed in some way. For example in Cry Wolf by Patricia Briggs I don't recall that being graphic at all, but you get a sense of what is between Anna and Charles. Conversely in the Guild Hunter series I really enjoy reading about the passion between Raphael and Elena. Then in other books it is just to much like Meredith Gentry, I don't want to read about a sexual escapade for chapters.

I say all this to say I am not sure I would be disappointed if there is no sex in a book. Having said that I think it is difficult to read a story about a couple over time and there is no sex. That would seem wrong, if you think about Cry Wolf which had almost no sex scenes to Fair Game where there are a handful of sex scenes.

Last I would say the level of erotica if you will is totally up to the ability of the author. For example Larissa Ione’s Demonica series was erotic and sexy and well it was HOT. Likewise I think Jeaniene Frost does a really great job with the love , intimacy balance. Then there are others that just don't work for me.

I think it's about balance. An earlier post mentioned that eating and sleeping get mentioned too, and they do, but they don't take center stage.
If the sex is important to the story, by all means put it in. If it last longer than a page or two, I'm skimming, because I can't believe that level of detail is required.
I guess the question then is; what would make sex important to the story?

I like fade to black as well...knowing what they'll be doing and not having to read about it. The stolen kiss and such are my favorite parts, as someone already said.

What a range of comfort levels! I didn't think that the heat-level was part of the determination of genre. I like sensuality but I go by author and cover blurb. I read few YA because they seem unnatural with relationships.

Mark wrote: "I think it's about balance. An earlier post mentioned that eating and sleeping get mentioned too, and they do, but they don't take center stage.
If the sex is important to the story, by all means ..."

That's a very good question. Not sure I know the answer, either!

Personally I could do without the sex. I love a good story, BUT I do want romantic involvement. The "chase". To be honest, once they finally get together, I typically lose interest.

Mark asked, what would make sex important to the story, hmmm if it had some sort of importance outside the relationship. Like them getting together set off some sort of change for a whole group of people, the world, etc. I guess if they procreated and it did the same sort of thing would make it important also. IF it created a new breed of "others" .

Otherwise, give me the flirting and innuendo's and a great story!

I like PNR for the romantic tension aspect, some light descriptives are nice, but if I want erotica...I'll read some paranormal erotica.

Like Jackie said, sex can change the direction of the story. Or it can reveal the characters' true traits, or even bring about those moments of growth we like in our characters. I know I've fallen in love with many a hero due to his tenderness or humor in bed, which has nothing to do with skills, but wouldn't have been revealed in other actions.

Kindle-aholic wrote: "Nope. I don't need any sex scenes, to be honest (fade to black is fine), although they also don't turn me off a story. Unless they go on forever with nothing else happening in the story."

Yeah I agree. However, I grew up with this fade to sky or fade to waves crashing on the beach, so that is out for me. I always wondered what the heck was going on (until of course I figured out what was going on).

I don't mind a book that includes some sex scenes, even those that may not be connected to love and/or romance, but when it becomes every page and there is a brief or no storyline to be found, then it is actually porn and not urban fantasy. It shows a complete lack of imagination on the part of authors. Most of us can figure out how to describe, in nauseous detail, the cresting and peaking. Not anything new or interesting.

It is an author that can weave it into the story, make it add interest and be part of the overall content, that is really talented and that I would enjoy reading.

Without getting back to what-makes-it-important, there's a second thread to this. Very few authors will start writing without hearing the advice 'show, don't tell'. 'Showing' engages the reader by speaking to the emotions rather than 'telling', which is exposition and description.

My point is this: most fade-to-black is telling. Sex scenes are generally showing (or intended to be).

I think the problem with many sex scenes is a failure to engage the emotions and avoid the instruction manual (place bolt A in nut B and twist quarter turn).

I find flirting is done better. There are an infinite number of ways to flirt but only half a dozen realistic positions to consummate things. I prefer the flirting, but I find it unsatisfying if it's all flirting and no resolution.

I like sex scenes, but only a couple of paragraphs or so, certainly not page after page, and I've never found a book I've enjoyed where it's predominant.

I love the action packed UF books without sex. I tend to avoid PNR as most I've read have terrible, badly written sex scenes that I move straight past and the story gets lost in the bedsheets. If the description mentions hot and steamy, love triangles, sexy cop/demon partner investigating with the heroine etc I tend to avoid it. I've probably missed out on some good UF/PNR stories because of this but I can't risk wasting my book budget on some sex filled storyless book!

I don't need sex-scenes in my PNR or UF books. I love reading about the build up, the little intimacies, the kisses, that sort of stuff. While I don't go out of my way to avoid books with sex-scenes I often feel the "is this really necessary" vibe if there is a lot of descriptive sex. I have also plain Quit reading books because of the "HOW COULD YOU HAVE SEX NOW!" thing.

You are in the middle of a covert opp and you have enemies on your tail. You are bleeding profusely from a (probably) mortal wound, yet you stop to have sex in the middle of the forest WHILE bleeding (and no it wasn't a vampire book!). I'm not kidding you, I've read this... and dumped the book.


My favorite series are: Kate Daniels, Mercy Thompson, The Edge, Psy-Changeling, Guildhunter, Elder races.

The first 3 have the (for me) optimum amout of sex, it's there but not overwhelming. The last 3 are just damn good stories as well, so I'll skim over the sex-scenes if I have to. I would LOVE (bigtime) if Nalini Singh/Thea Harrison would just take the sex-thing down a little, but you can't have anything you want and I'll still read their books because they are great anyway.

Davinia wrote: "You are in the middle of a covert opp and you have enemies on your tail. You are bleeding profusely from a (probably) mortal wound, yet..."

This also goes for the insistent, out-of-context fantasizing about sex that's too common in PNR.

Well, for me. For you?

For me too. I've stopped reading books for that. Actually I just did that. Kissed by Darkness was bugging the hell outta me with that and the triangle thing.

One of the few writers I still read in spite of the sexy overtone is Nalini Singh. Somehow she manages to balance it just right to keep me wanting to read her stories even if I have to gloss over some scenes to get to it.

Davinia wrote: "You are in the middle of a covert opp and you have enemies on your tail. You are bleeding profusely from a (probably) mortal wound, yet you stop to have sex in the middle of the forest WHILE bleeding (and no it wasn't a vampire book!). I'm not kidding you, I've read this... and dumped the book."

Ohmahgawd.
THIS.
Yes.

Whether there's a lot of descriptive sex/romance or not isn't a problem.

My problem with such scenes is that most often, they make me feel like smacking the characters with a shovel and yell: "Get your priorities straight!"

Sex and romance when you have the time, and if it makes sense within a specific relationship's chemistry? Sure! When you're in dangerous situations, threatened, chased, targeted by [insert supernatural creature here], without time to waste because The Apocalypse Is Nigh? Nope. Be a Big Damn Hero and do your hero job, since that's what your author put you into.

The other breaking factor for me is that, IMHO, a lot of authors don't know how to write a proper sex scene. (Trust me: I've tried my hand at this, no pun intended, and writing good pr0n is so. Damn. Difficult.) I've stopped counting the many occurrences of sudden purple prose, weird similes and metaphors, misuses of "literally" (unless you're going for the kill, no, you're not "literally" making the girl's heart jump out of her chest), and various other crappy examples. I'd probably forgive some superfluous hot scenes if they were at least good.

Yzabel wrote: "writing good pr0n is so. Damn. Difficult...."

Go on. Start a thread to find the worst of the really abominable bits of sex scenes :-)

Who do you think gets it right as an author?

I'm not a fan of heavy sex scenes, especially in fantasy/urban fantasy. If I wanted to read about explicit sex I'd buy erotica. Same as Davinia,I like the build up, flirting and stolen kisses etc

I agree about the bad timing. I have read scenes where one or both partners are badly injured (in spite of various fast healing characteristics depending on the personal paranormal), virtually at death's door and WOW, it is a great time for sex!

And how many times have we seen sex the very next day after even a death experience (for those who can be killed but come back). HEY!!! There is no way, even with these abilities, that people this badly injured could even have sex, much less the sex described. So I use say "AS IF"!!!!!

Yes, the stories are fantasy, so to be fair.... But when the characters say, just minutes before the sex, that they are in serious pain and mention back and ribs, and other parts pretty important to serious movement..... well, it does not really track, does it?

It's about the storyline for me. I chose a story for the characters the story if it's lacking in the sexy-times then that's okay.
It's not really about what is going on behind the the bedroom door.

Mostly I've been disappointed by PNR books when the love interest sexypants character ends up behaving in abusive, crappy ways that are framed as alluringly challenging to the POV lead. The resulting sex scenes feel pretty gross, actually. It's not bringing the heat for me and has caused me to drop a handful of series that were in other ways fantastic stories.

Besides, there are some amazing erotica writers like Tiffany Reisz bringing the sexy times if that what I'm in the mood for.

I do not wish to read sex scenes in UF or PNR. I'm not adverse to romance, or sex in general. I just prefer keeping sex to a minimum in PNR/UF. There are some series and storylines that I stopped reading because of they kept going in that direction.

I'm able to skim, but some include "important" information conveyed during graphic descriptions of sexual encounters. I believe this occurred several times, as in more than once, in Winter Pennington's books.

I was going to do a breakdown, not in the comment box but for myself, on what I have read UF/PNR/Adult but I can't. I've got the books too mixed up on my shelves. Most, if not all of the books I've shelved PNR are also shelved in UF.

I keep forgetting the difference between PNR/UF beyond - explicit sex is less likely to suddenly happen in UF; there might be romance, there might be less explicit sex, but less of it in UF.

As far as romance, I prefer my romance on roughly the graphic detail level of Jane Austin/Georgette Heyer. Though I also can find it amusing when certain phrases pop up that mean different things in modern day terms and when used in the past, but that's a separate issue. Like how often they ejaculate in Georgette Heyer books. (“I wish to God I might induce her to mind me!' he ejaculated.”
― Georgette Heyer, Bath Tangle)

(somewhere I should probably include the tidbit that I have more books shelved "adult" than shelved on Romance, UF or PNR, just as an aside somewhere. Can't think of anything. I put here.)

So: "Would you be disappointed if you read a PNR book *without* a lot of descriptive sex?"
Disappointed? No.

There are tasteful ways to do sex scenes and then there are the ones where you are blinking in confusion and trying to figure out if the characters are contortionists.

Good writing doesn't need something hot and sweaty to make the book readable. I won't complain though, if it's in there and done well.

"Would you be disappointed if you read a PNR book *without* a lot of descriptive sex?"
No, I would not be disappointed. I would be disappointed, though, if it had sex. Lots and lots of sex. Mostly sex with a thin bit of story.

I actually find most sex scenes kind of boring after a while. I mean, you can only realistically do so much with them.