A Song of Ice and Fire - A Chapter a day discussion
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A Storm of Swords
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01/03/16 - Chapter: 26: Jon III
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The woman in me totally geeked out in this chapter, lol. Your point 1, you know, you're right. I hadn't thought of it that way; what Jon does know about warging he learned all on his own. He doesn't have Jojen or the three-eyed-raven to help him.
Your point 8, I really would like to know how much time has passed as well. I'm assuming at least 2 weeks, but I don't know. They had to travel quite a distance through the mountains to get to the Wall so I'm assuming it took at least a little while. And I'm so glad I'm not the only one who doesn't think they actually loved each other. I agree I think they had a crush on each other, but there was no love. If he loved her, he'd put her first and abandon his duty. Or if he did love her, he loved his duty to the Wall and his country more. I see this scene as necessary because it teaches Jon what the men of the Night's Watch, the kingsguard, and all them, are giving up when they vow to be celibate. Also, I like to believe one day he'll get married and have a wife/sweetheart that's right for him, so Ygritte serves as his "teacher."
1. I don’t remember hearing about the twelve houses of heaven, maybe thats this world’s version of the zodiac? I’d love to learn more about it! The Sword of the Morning is also a constellation, didn’t know that.
2. I like how Jon now says he never meant to steal her. He misses Arya and sometimes doesn’t feel like part of the family anymore. Awe. Jon’s names for Ghost’s constellations are so cute, lol. Interesting the “bird” marked both of them. I wonder if this has any correlation at all to the three-eyed-raven poking at Bran’s third eye? He tells Ghost that when they go over the Wall they’re going to have to leave him behind, since there’s no way to hoist the direwolf up with them. Jon knows he’s a warg but makes a pretty poor one, he thinks. Awe. Interesting he only had that one wolf dream. Both Bran and Arya get them a lot. He tells Ghost to go to Castle Black. In addition to feeling like a poor warg he also feels like he makes a poor sworn brother and a spy. This boy is a humble one.
3. They’d been taking the longer, slower route to the Wall, but it’s easier to conceal yourself in the mountains. He thinks they’re somewhere near the Shadow Tower. Jon struggles with what he should really be doing, rather than this.
4. Instead, he gets laid. A lot. That must have been so terrible for him...lol. He keeps trying to remind himself it’s only an act, but we know it’s not. Not this, anyway. All 16-year-old boys want to get laid. He has Ygritte teaching him how to wield a different sword, lol. He reminds himself that even the great Lord Eddard Stark broke a vow once, to father him. They mate like jackrabbits. How embarrassing it must’ve been for them to get caught that morning, and lol at being threatened in doused ice water if they don’t hurry up.
5. The Magnar wants Jon so he follows the messenger into a cave. One cavern is as large as Winterfell’s Great Hall, wow. Apparently Styr and Jarl don’t get along well. Styr doesn’t like having to share command but Jarl is the most experienced with scaling the Wall. Styr wants to know the patrol patterns on the Wall from Jon. Jon tells the truth, knowing if he’s caught in a lie Styr will not hesitate to kill him and Ygritte both. Jon finds out they’re between Stonedoor and Greyguard, two of sixteen abandoned forts on the Wall. Jon does not like Styr. If all wildlings were like him he’d have no trouble betraying them.
6. The Thenns behave differently from other wildlings. The Magnar demands total obedience from his men, and he is like a god to them. They boast they are the last of the First Men. They are fierce and have more discipline.
7. Jon follows Ygritte into a secluded cave with running water. It is very dark in here without a torchlight. She says the cave system is vast down here, and there is one cave that even goes beneath the Wall. It’s called Gorne’s Way. Gorne and Gendel, 3,000 years ago, apparently led a host of free folk through there and made it to the other side only to be cut down by Starks. Supposedly Gendel retreated back into the caves but got lost. It’s said his descendants can be heard in the caves at night, still looking for a way out. It’s said Gendel’s children eat wanderers who get lost in these caves. There’s nothing else to eat.
8. Now she strips for him. Gods that’s got to be freaking cold! She keeps saying he knows nothing. This is the first time he’s actually seen her naked, though they’ve done it enough times before. He says all the things he loves about her, physical stuff, but notice he never says he loves her. Then they get intimate. Lol at Ygritte, “Is it what lords do to their ladies, down in the south?” I like how she calls him a maid. I’m surprised it took her so long to find out he was a virgin. She was no maid, though. He’s glad she never slept with Longspear; he likes him. She says incest is an abomination to the gods, that Craster is more his kind than theirs. “Craster’s blood is black, and he bears a heavy curse.” *SPECULATION ON A SONG OF ICE AND FIRE* (view spoiler)
9. We find out she told Jon the Bael the Bard story earlier hoping he’d get the hint that he should fuck her, but he didn’t get it. She says he knows nothing, but maybe he’s learning some. :) Lol she calls it the lord’s kiss. Jon wonders why it’s so wrong if the gods made it feel so good. It’s so cute how they horseplay in the water, and how “...turned out they were not finished after all.”
10. Afterward, Ygritte wants to stay in the cave and live with him with Gendel’s children. :) A sweet sentiment, but they both know they’ll need to go back.
Yeah, I think all this was necessary as well. I always thought he didn't love Ygritte, but it can be as you say as well: he loves her but loves his honor/the Watch more. I think Jon and his personal war are quite interesting. He cares about her, but his honor, if it's not the most important quality Jon thinks someone can have, gets always in the way. Even if when they are together he forgets, he always remembers. I think all this made him grew as a character as well.About your point 8, I noticed he never said he loves her, but I forgot to write it. For me, this clearly shows is just a crush. But I don't think we are alone in this Vicki, a lot of my friends think the same. But I know some think they really love each other. *SPECULATION ON A SONG OF ICE AND FIRE* (view spoiler)
Hmm, well, I don't have too many friends who've read this far yet. And in the show it does look like they love each other. Like, doesn't Jon actually say it in the show? They overplayed Ygritte, I think. It's HBO, of course. Yet with all the queerly added sex scenes you'd think they'd have played it up more for them. I was never much of a fan of Ygritte, to be honest. Her accent in the books annoyed me, lol. I think she spoke less in the books and was more pathetic than in the show that made her much more annoying with all her talk of sex and crap. I mean, it was funny, making Jon uncomfortable, but it was more than that, I think. And even if Ygritte did have better chemistry with him they are still starcrossed lovers that would never have made it together in the end.
A lot of my friends have read the books, and out of five (who completed them) only one thinks they loved each other. I have seen the first three seasons, and I think they were just starting the relationship. But I didn't like her at all in the show, and even though I can't say I love her in the books, I like her way more than what I've seen in the show. I don't know if Jon tells her he loves her in the show, but I wouldn't be surprised though. I think it was more than that as well. I am sure Jon didn't love her, and I think maybe she was starting to, but I don't think there was ever real love between them. Yeah, I don't think they would have ended up together if things turned out to be different.
Oh sorry, I won't spoil the show for you then. :) I'm just glad I'm not the only one, lol.
2-Jon could see the Wall, although they were pretty far still. He thinks they might be between Castle Black and Shadow Tower. He thinks of blowing a horn, but he was way too far still, and Styr would most likely kill him. Now, he starts doubting if he is a brother still, and thinks he should have killed Mance when he could, even if he died as well. Jon thinks Qhorin would have done so, but I think having one between them is a great way to know them. Although it’s not easy at all. He rode with Jarl, Styr and more than 100 Thenns and riders. I forgot so many went.
3-Jon remembers the first time he slept with Ygritte, he thought he had no choice and couldn’t refuse her because she’ll know he was a turncloak, which makes sense. He thinks even his father left his honor once when he slept with Jon’s mother, I guess that makes him feel better. But he soon forgot about the vows and the Watch and could only think of Ygritte, who was not a maiden. It’s kind of funny how he thinks he won’t have to do it again because he already proved he left his vows, and ends up doing it three times more, and Jarl told him to hurry, lol. I guess it’s common for them, but it’s kind of awkward as well.
4-One of the Thenns went after Jon, Styr wanted to talk to him. It seems most of the Thenns don’t talk a lot of the Common Tongue. They were in a cave, and the fire couldn’t be seen from the Wall, they are smart people. Styr and Jarl were giving the command, and I forgot Styr was not happy at all. He brought far more men than Jarl did. Jon thinks Jarl would be the one to get them through the Wall. Styr asked Jon about the patrols, and he answered. Rangers looked for foes, and builders for structural problems. I forgot about the builders. One patrol out of four looked for problems in the base. I forgot a man called Arson Iceaxe was half way through the Wall when the rangers found out and sealed the other side, so he died there, which is horrible.
5-Benjen had the idea of change how often the patrols go out, so the wildlings would be confused, and Mormont used his idea, which is pretty clever. When asked how many men were left, Jon added the 300 that went beyond the Wall, and Jarl noticed he lied. Jon finds out they were between Stonedoor and Greyguard, both abandoned. When they called Jon a liar, he got offended and said he wouldn’t be called one, they would find out soon anyway how many they were, and told Jon to leave. I think he spoke pretty well this time.
6-The Thenns were different from the other wildlings, Magnar claimed to be the last of the First Men, and the Thenns saw them as a god. So, Styr got total obedience from them, and that’s why Mance sent him and his men. So far, they seemed to be the most discipline wildlings.
7-Ygritte was in a cave, and she tells Jon there are lots of caves, one it was said to be Gorne’s Way, which went under the Wall. He and his brother Gendel went. There was a fight at Winterfell, Gorne killed the King in the North, and the prince killed him. The Watch came then, and Jon told her they killed Gendel as well, but she told him he lived and went back to the caves, but didn’t know them as well as his brother. So Gendel and the people that followed couldn’t get out, and it was said they could be heard. I forgot a lot about this story.
8-Ygritte was naked, and it was the first time Jon saw her like that. Once more, he forgot about anything and it was only her. They always did it under the furs, and it seems he already fucked her 50 times, and I don’t know how many time passed, but I don’t think it was a lot. Jon has a lot of energy it seems, lol. Jon told Ygritte he loves a lot of thinks about her, but just like the first time, I don’t think he is in love with her. This is all new to him and he likes it, but just like the first time I don’t get the feeling he loves her. Lol at the lord’s kiss, that name always gets me.
9-Ygritte’s first time was when she was 14, with a boy with red hair just like hers. Jon was relieved Longspear was not the first guy. They were like brothers she said, and they stole women from other clans to strength their own, and they were from the same. This started because Jon said she was his first, he was a man of the Night’s Watch. He feels bad about saying it in the past, but he got lost in the moment at all. But he felt bad, so that counts.
10-I totally forgot Craster’s story, his father was a man of the Watch who went back to the Wall, and when his mother went with Craster to the Wall, they run her off. Ygritte said Craster’s blood was black, and he carried a curse. I guess mostly all the wildlings don’t approve he marries his daughters.
11-Ygritte trusts Jon know, he feared once he’d flew back, but not now. He said they should go back, but they stayed a little more and she asked for another kiss. Jon has a little war in his head to say the least, and wonders why something so wrong feels so good. He has a lot of mixed feelings. Ygritte told him she never wanted to leave the cave. I think if she’s not in love with him, she is falling.