Grimdark Fantasy discussion

Since Goodreads Groups can make their own challenges (like the annual Goodreads Reading challenges), I suggest that we create our own. Maybe something simple, like completing all of the group reads for the year. Any thoughts?

Perhaps an author based challenge. Pick an author (or several) and try to read as much of their stuff as possible. I'd go with Feist since I have not read any of his work yet.

I love reading challenges and tend to fail them miserably. That said, I surpassed my 2015 Goodreads challenge and set a higher goal to fail for 2016.

Grimdark challenge? How about this one? Read grimdark authors that spell grimdark?

G:eorge RR Martin
R:
I:
M:ichael Fletcher
D:aniel Polansky
A:bercrombie
R:
K:

Yeah, it's silly, but there it is.

So it's first name of last name's initial? can be either one? my tentative list:

G: Guy Gavriel Kay - not even sure he's grimdark
R: Anthony Ryan
I: ??? not many choices, I'm afraid.
M: China Miéville
D: Seth Dickinson
A: Joe Abercrombie
R: R.A. Salvatore
K: K.J. Parker

China Mieville and KJ Parker have been on my list for a while.

FYI: I was totally joking about this type of challenge, but I'm okay with it too. Now that Brittany has acknowledged my cheese-worthiness I'm even more inclined to do it!

If you have read up to book 5 of Malazan the possibly Ian C. Esslemont or if not James Islington. These and one other were to only 'I' authors I found on my to-read shelf!

So I have to read till book 5 first? Book 2 confused the hell out of me, I barely made it. Wow actually finishing Malazan is probably the hardest challenge ever for me and I love challenges....

That's the advice on the Malazan Wiki page. I'm guessing Night of Knives contains spoilers for Malazan 1-5. I love the whole Malazan universe, on book 6 now. Its consumed me...

Tracey, I have seen your updates and know that you are engrossed in the Malazan books. Many times I see our interests are similar. I really want to read the Malazan books, but I also want to get into Sanderson's "Stormlight Archive" series. Given the length of all of those books, I could probably only read 5 books a year. Hence, I hesitate at starting Malazan.

Well Malazan is completed, so you wouldn't have to wait between books! I am also quite obsessed with Stormlight Archive, but it sucks waiting two/three years between books.

I'm going to chime in on the Malazan series. Simply put it's the best Epic fantasy series out there and it's not for the faint of heart. The sheer size and scope of it is nothing like I have read before. Erikson and Esslemont have done an incredible job of weaving stories in that universe with so much detail that it is a pleasure to read.

My recommendation for the reading order of the books is to go by the publishing order, especially since Esslemont introduces his books and it parallels Erikson's books during the same time period on most of them (Knight of knives is a prequel of sorts). Erikson is currently doing the prequel novels as well. Also I tell people give it until book 3 if you decide you want to quit. The first two books have so many characters and things going on it is hard to get an idea where the series going (Hell even by book 10 I wasn't sure exactly how it was going!).

Tracey how would you recommend the novels? What did you think of it?

I'm on book 6 at the moment and loving it. The series has some the best written characters around. Definitely the best epic fantasy out there. They do benefit from a second read though, they can be quite overwhelming.

When I first picked up Gardens I had no idea what was going on. Nothing is really explained, my own curiosity kept me going, and then I gradually became immersed in this strange world and its inhabitants. And then I was addicted!

I know I'll be devastated when I finish the series.

I find the Malazan books so daunting and hearing that I might have to read like 1500+ pages before really getting into the story makes me itch. I've been looking to read more epic fantasy series and I'm currently on-and-off reading the second book of Wheel of Time and even that series feels too daunting to me even though it's not particularly dense prose-wise. I'm still gonna try to read it through at least the first three books in that series and will certainly give Malazan a shot, but if I'm not hooked on Malazan within the first book I would have a hard time committing to so much material.

Christopher wrote: "I find the Malazan books so daunting and hearing that I might have to read like 1500+ pages before really getting into the story makes me itch. I've been looking to read more epic fantasy series an..."

I've read both series, and Wheel of Time can't hold a candle to Malazan. Malazan is much more GD than Wheel of Time. Plus I felt the characters in WoT where just to childish. Malazan characters on the other hand are so complex at times you are not sure whether you should love or hate them!

One thing I noticed with Malazan was a small event in one book can often bigger consequences in later books (butterfly effect). So when I first read it, I was like ok, then down the road I was Holy Shit that is huge!! :)

EDIT: Correction I read WoT upto book 7 since I decided I would wait until Jordan finished the series and sadly he passed away and Sanderson had to finish it. My understanding is he did a good job with wrapping it up.

It's pretty much been my plan to read the WoT books up until the books I've heard are terrible in the middle (around book 7 or 8), read some summaries/important info from those books, then jump back in at book 11 where it's supposed to get good again and read to the end. I'm glad I'm not a hardcore completionist.

I've mostly been reading WoT because a lot of my friends have been recommending them to me for years. I'm definitely more interested in complex characters so I might just go all out into Malazan instead. The characters in WoT are the weakest thing about the series for me so far.

Brittany wrote: "Maybe we can recommend book one from Malazan for a group read and people can decided to pursue the series on their own after that. So far people have recommended some other "classics" recently that..."

The problem with this idea, IMO, is that some of us are series geeks. We don't like to mix and match. If I start book of Malazan and like it, I'm going to be reading Malazan for the next year.

Personally, I much prefer one-off books or short series (<= 3) for group reads. I already don't participate in some because I'm already in another series.

Brittany wrote: "Maybe we can recommend book one from Malazan for a group read and people can decided to pursue the series on their own after that. So far people have recommended some other "classics" recently that..."
That being said...Malazan is DEFINITELY on my "check out" list. Jason has been telling me how great it is for a few years, at least, now.

I felt the same way about it before I started it, each book is roughly 850 pages long and the font is tiny! Then one day I couldn't decide what to read so I picked a few, wrote them down on some paper, closed my eyes and stabbed the page. Ended up with Gardens. After I couldn't believe it took me so long to give it a try!

Tracey (Queen of Blades) wrote: "I felt the same way about it before I started it, each book is roughly 850 pages long and the font is tiny! Then one day I couldn't decide what to read so I picked a few, wrote them down on some pa..."

Font size? What? Do you still read paper books? :p

I read so much better on the kindle. I hate going back to paper books mostly because of the font size. The next book I'm about to read is a 10 books in one big book (Great Book of Amber), and it's not on kindle so I'm going to have to do the whole thing in a paper book. Ugh! Lighting issues too.

I bought a kindle years ago and did not get into it and went back to physical books, but then recently bought a super cheap nook from a friend and I can't see going back to physical books now. I still buy physical books sometimes when I can see myself re-reading in the future and especially if I can't find a DRM-free ebook available. That way I can pirate it guilt-free.... haha

I still mostly read books from the library which feels weird with ebooks, but at least I never have late fees anymore.

Christopher wrote: "I bought a kindle years ago and did not get into it and went back to physical books, but then recently bought a super cheap nook from a friend and I can't see going back to physical books now. I st..."
Kindle and Nook are very similar. I've seen a few deep comparisons and Kindle usually edges the nook out, but it really comes down to preference.

It felt funny to me at first, but once I kinda got into the groove, I found that I read about 50% faster on the kindle.

Then I read an article that discussed font size and based on what it said I upped my font size to almost comically big. It improves reading speed even more.

Once or twice I've gone back to a paper book, and some have really bad (small) fonts. I HATE that now. I read Heinlein's "Moon is a Harsh Mistress" last year on a paper book because I already had it. The font size was small and I swear that book took me 3X as long to read as it would have on the kindle.

I don't think the ereader makes a difference, I just happened to stumble into a $20 nook. I would have bought a kindle if I was buying new and not constrained by a very small budget.

I do tend to use medium-to-large fonts regardless of book. It definitely strains my eyes much less and allows me to read way faster.

In most instances I find I read much quicker on an ereader, but for some reason it appears the opposite with the Malazan books. The first three were paperback, 4 and 5 were kindle. Possibly a coincidence.

I would not recommend Malazan as group read. If anything I would recommend a side read for those of us who want to read it or reread it again. If anything I would say create a separate thread for each book and let the questions flow. I would honestly say do not have any requirements as to when to have the book done either. I don't care if we can all read hell blazing fast, there is just to much stuff going on in the books that little things have big consequences and lastly the amount of characters by book 10 is staggering!

Perhaps Forge of Darkness, its not a classic and as far as I know does not contain Malazan spoilers. Its set about 300000 years earlier so a very early prequel. I read it before starting Malazan, it certainly qualifies as grimdark. And for those who have not read Malazan its a good introduction to Erikson's style.

Tracey (Queen of Blades) wrote: "Perhaps Forge of Darkness, its not a classic and as far as I know does not contain Malazan spoilers. Its set about 300000 years earlier so a very early prequel. I read it before sta..."

Looks like an unfinished series. No for me. I've been burned too many times. I don't like to start an unfinished series.

Yeah that might prove an issue for some. Book 2 is out late Feb, but you probably wait at least 2 years for 3.

Tracey (Queen of Blades) wrote: "Yeah that might prove an issue for some. Book 2 is out late Feb, but you probably wait at least 2 years for 3."
Exactly!!

I know some don't mind. I loathe it.

The main issue for me is that I have a horrible memory. I would have to go back and reread the previous book(s) if I had to wait for 2 years.

Right now I'm rereading a trilogy (Original "Sword of Shannara" trilogy) that I read 25 years ago. It's almost like reading it for the first time. Other than vague ideas about which characters are good or bad or very very basic plot ideas, it's nearly like reading it for the first time. I have almost no memory of the stories.

I'm quite lucky in that my memory is quite good, but after 25 years I would struggle.

Ughh.... Malazan was a DNF for me. I started the first book and dropped it about half way in. The mere thought of having to wade through two books before it gets "good" is abhorrent.

That said, I may have to pick it up again and try. A ten book series that is outstanding? That's very tempting and those of you recommending it are getting through to me.

Regarding reading - I use my tablet and have the font set to fairly large and then I put on my reading glasses too. That episode of the Twilight Zone where the world ends and the guy is left with a library full of books and no one to bother him. Then he breaks his reading glasses and can't read? That would totally be me at this stage.

Chompa wrote: "egarding reading - I use my tablet and have the font set to fairly large and then I put on my reading glasses too. That episode of the Twilight Zone where the world ends and the guy is left with a library full of books and no one to bother him. Then he breaks his reading glasses and can't read? That would totally be me at this stage. "


Great episode!

I would definitely be up for a group read of the Malazan books. Was thinking of just reading the full series, including the side stories next year, or later this year if I can finish some other series first. There is a reading order list somewhere on goodreads. I will try and find the link. (currently on my phone, so can't do it)

I would also love a group Malazan reading of the series - I just finished Gardens of the Moon as a first-time reader and loved it. It would be great to read the other ones with the group (of course starting with GotM).

Here is the link to the Malazan series reading list ; - https://www.goodreads.com/series/1739...
I hope this works.

Kieron wrote: "Here is the link to the Malazan series reading list ; - https://www.goodreads.com/series/1739...
I hope this works."

Thanks a lot! Looks like there is a lot of Malazan in my future. :)