Glens Falls (NY) Online Book Discussion Group discussion

2/5/16 - On p. 52 of the book, Time and Again by Jack Finney, I came across an interesting way to think about "time travel". It was a new insight for me. It's told in the form of a simile by one of the characters who explains:
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"... we're mistaken in our conception of what the past, present and future really are. We think the past is gone, the future hasn't yet happened, and that only the present exists. Because the present is all we can see. ...
... "It's only natural. As Einstein himself pointed out. He said we're like people in a boat without oars drifting along a winding river. Around us we see only the present. We can't see the past, back in the bends and curves behind us. But it's there. ...
... "He ... meant precisely what he said about time: that the past, back there around curves and bends, really exists. It's actually there. ...
... "... my own tiny extension of Einstein's giant theory is --- that a man ought somehow to be able to step out of that boat onto the shore. And walk back to one of the bends behind us."
(THE WORDS ABOVE ARE SAID BY THE CHARACTER, DANZIGER.)
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That's a great explanation! Wonderfully simple! Reminds me of the saying:
"Genius is the ability to reduce the complicated to the simple." -C.W. Ceram
ABOVE WAS POSTED IN MY REVIEW of: _Time and Again_: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

It's pretty typical to compare time to a river.

"Time is a sort of river of passing events, and strong is its current; no sooner is a thing brought to sight than it is swept by and another takes its place, and this too will be swept away." - Marcus Aurelius (121-180 AD)

The confusing part is what happens if we do go back along the bank & make any changes. Killing one's own grandfather is one such conundrum. Could a person do that?

If they did, they wouldn't exist to be able to travel back to do it, right? Does that mean that reality splinters off a different path or the person ceases to exist, so it doesn't ever happen? Is it even possible to try?

Jim wrote: "It's pretty typical to compare time to a river.
"Time is a sort of river of passing events, and strong is its current; no sooner is a thing brought to sight than it is swept by and another takes ..."

Jim, that's another good quote. Thanks.

I've heard about that problem that would be caused by making changes in the past. They deal with that in "Back to the Future" (1985).
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088763/?...
Interesting concept.

"Back to the Future" was fun, although it had some plot holes in it. A different look at the paradox was Heinlein's "All You Zombies" where a person becomes his own parents - both of them.

Jim wrote: ""Back to the Future" was fun, although it had some plot holes in it. A different look at the paradox was Heinlein's "All You Zombies" where a person becomes his own parents - both of them."

LOL - That IS strange! :)

I had grandchildren that watched that movie a dozen times. You'd think I'd remember it. I think I blocked it out. good Einstein quote Joy. We had a very close friend for over forty years and had no idea he'd ever met Einstein until we read his obit.

It was strange, especially for when it was written, Joy. SF is rich in using it to make a variety of points. "A Sound of Thunder" by Ray Bradbury is another one of my favorites. In it, a tiny change, the death of a butterfly, in the distant past changes the future badly.

Nina wrote: "I had grandchildren that watched that movie a dozen times. You'd think I'd remember it. I think I blocked it out. good Einstein quote Joy. We had a very close friend for over forty years and had no..."

Thanks, Nina.

Jim wrote: "It was strange, especially for when it was written, Joy. SF is rich in using it to make a variety of points. "A Sound of Thunder" by Ray Bradbury is another one of my favorites. In it..."

Jim, I have some Ray Bradbury books on my To-Read shelf but I haven't yet read any. One of them is a short story collection called The Illustrated Man. The GR description says it's "a marvelous, if mostly dark, quilt of science fiction, fantasy, and horror."
I doubt if I'll be reading it soon. :)

Was it Ray Bradbury that wrote and I can't remember the exact title but the word "summer" was in the title. It was one of my very favorite books and seems like Jim or Werner also liked it.

He had a few stories/books with 'Summer' in the name. All Summer in a Day was one really sad one set on Venus. The others were collections of stories set in 'Green Town'. I've never read those compilations, although I've read some of the stories out of them. Bradbury has a lot of short stories in several collections as well as bits of novels as short stories.

Jim wrote: "He had a few stories/books with 'Summer' in the name. All Summer in a Day was one really sad one set on Venus. The others were collections of stories set in 'Green Town'. I've never..."

Jim, "All Summer in a Day" sounds like a good one. I read the GR description:
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"Margot is a nine-year-old girl whose family moved from Earth to Venus when she was four. She remembers the sun shining on Earth, something it rarely does on Venus. "All Summer in a Day" takes place on the one day when Venus's rain will stop, and the sun will shine for a couple of hours only."
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I'm going to try to find it.
Thanks for asking that question, Nina! :)

PS-I see that "All Summer in a Day" is in the book: A Medicine for Melancholy and Other Stories by Ray Bradbury.

Thanks for your answer, Jim but those titles aren't the ones that ring the bell. Who else was famous SF writer around the time of Rad Bradbury? It's hard to not remember things. My husband tells people "I don't do proper nouns." I might be getting to that point. I can almost feel that title on the tip of my tongue. Maybe someday I will think of it. Also, you can empathize with me Jim as today is a sad day as my daughter had to have her horse put down. The vet came out and tried different medications etc but to no avail. But, at least she is not suffeingr anymore. She was a great horse while she lasted and a beauty; mostly all white.

You might be thinking of The Door Into Summer by Robert A. Heinlein. That's a time travel book that features a cat who demands his human open every door in the house when the weather is bad so he can see if one has summer hiding behind it.

That is a shame about your daughter's horse. We went through that with Marg's favorite horse, Blue, a few years ago. Very tough. I think Speedy is on his way out now. He's getting thinner although Marg is feeding him more. His teeth aren't meeting properly any more. She says she's seeing balls of half eaten hay around, a sure sign they've gotten even worse.

Ji,. That still isn't it(summe?) but such an interesting premise I might read it. Until recently I've had cats most of my life. Sometimes dogs but almost always cats. I love both and horses too. We got our daughter who just lost her horse her first one when she was fouteen. She is fifty five now and has had a horse or two ever since. I am guessing you had them even younger. She was our sixth child and we would never have been able to afford one for each of the others. The one that just died was her second horse and she rescued it from being abused and trained it herself and always had a special feeling for her.

Mom had a horse my entire life, so I was riding in diapers. She got her first one when she was 15, but had to earn the money to buy & keep her. She was so horse crazy that she did, mostly by digging clams. I got my first pony when I was 5, but didn't get another until I got Chip a few years back. I had plenty of mounts, just never owned one. My wife was in her early 20's when she got her first & has pretty much continually had them ever since. Our oldest boy was 3 when he got his first pony & his brother was just over a year old - a feral Shetland mare (Spice) & her foal (Nutmeg) that we captured & tamed. My daughter has always had her own pony or horse. She started off with Spice.

My goodness, Jim, that's quite a background. Where and how did you capture Nutmeg? I didn't know that horses could be feral nowadays in the East (except for the ones on that island I once heard about.)

Jim, I heard from my daughter tonight that one of her friends is bringing her mare to be the other horse's stable mate so she isn't so lonesome. I'm glad for Megan too. Instead of looking at the empty space in the stall. I enjoyed reading about your horsey life.

Joy H. wrote: "My goodness, Jim, that's quite a background. Where and how did you capture Nutmeg? I didn't know that horses could be feral nowadays in the East (except for the ones on that island I once heard abo..."

That's quite a story. A guy bought a farm in Monkton, MD & turned out 3 Shetland ponies. He never touched them, just tossed some hay & salt blocks in. When he died 30 or 40 years later, his kids wanted to sell the place, but there were about 60 ponies living there, so they spread the word that they were free to who ever could catch them. We caught 4 one day - 2 for us & 2 for my brother & sister in law.

The first was Spice. Me & another guy, Doug, tackled her in a falling down barn. Marg & Doug dragged her to the trailer while I carried her foal, Nutmeg. She was about the size of a medium dog. We put them in a stall.

The first time I went in to feed Spice (Nutmeg was still on the tit.) she put Nutmeg behind her in the furthest corner. I spoke gently & moved slowly while Marg closed the stall door. I hadn't taken 2 steps across the stall when Spice leaped at me with her teeth bared & took a chunk out of my left hand that I through up to block her. She weighed about 250 lbs, so was pretty small, although she outweighed me by 70 lbs. The 'discussion' that followed left her huddled in a corner. She never attacked another human after that.

She turned out to be about 4 years old & became the best pony the kids could have asked for. When Erin was under a year old, she crawled out of the dog door & wound up in the paddock with Spice. She couldn't walk yet, but pulled herself upright by clinging to Spice's hind leg & tail. Flies were bad & Spice stomped her other legs, but never the one Erin clung to. Yes, it freaked us out. The second time, she had managed to get over a baby gate & then out the dog door. Damn little monkey about drove us crazy.

Nutmeg was never a very good saddle pony. She had a low tolerance for kids & was quite adept at stepping on their feet while looking innocent. She was smart & won quite a few ribbons, but generally by doing what she felt like. She was infamous for ignoring her rider no matter what they did. We traded her to my sister-in-law, Anna, who turned her into an award winning driving pony. We had a pony cart & noticed that she excelled at that. Unfortunately, Anna got some work done on her place & a workman cleaned something off in Nutmeg's water trough which poisoned & killed her.

Spice died at about 28 years old. We gave her to an old couple who doted on her. They kept her just for their grandkids & as a pet. She was pretty much blind by the time she was in her early 20's, though. Still she gave them leadline rides & could pull them around in the pony cart.

Nina wrote: "Jim, I heard from my daughter tonight that one of her friends is bringing her mare to be the other horse's stable mate so she isn't so lonesome. I'm glad for Megan too. Instead of looking at the em..."

That's great. Horses do like company. It's one of the reasons so many racing stables keep ponies, goats, or a pig around.

Could be a children's picture book.

Jim wrote: "... The first was Spice. Me & another guy, Doug, tackled her in a falling down barn. Marg & Doug dragged her to the trailer while I carried her foal, Nutmeg..."

Jim, that's quite a story! Your experiences with animals are amazing. I can just picture all those adventures! Too bad somebody didn't film all that. It would make very exciting watching.

Spice sounds like a real sweet pony. I feel sorry about what happened to Nutmeg. What a shame.