The GoodBook Club discussion

Hi readers,

This discussion tab is for The Widow by Fiona Barton. It may contain spoilers from the book so you have been warned. If you've won a copy of the book or have already finished reading it, make sure to take charge and share some of the opinions you had about the story. We've got a lovely surprise for some of the members that participate in this chat starting today and ending Feb. 23rd. I won't distract you any longer - discuss!

Cheers,
Fatuma

Hi everyone! Hi Fatuma!

I read the book a little while back and I've been rereading some parts for our discussion. I really enjoyed how they showed the Media's perspective and the reporter's perspective in the story. They are sometimes painted solely as the "villain" in the story, but it was nice to get multiple perspectives. I was blown away with the ending and I honestly felt like I was watching one of my favorite crime shows and watching it all unravel. I'm curious to hear what you all thought about Jean? Did your opinion of her change as you read on, how so? For me, I was really intrigued by Jean and by the end of it, I felt quite sad for Jean.

Christine

Hello everyone! Christine, my opinion of Jean didn't change much overall throughout the book, I found her to be totally dominated by Glen. I think her obsession with having a child blinded her or allowed her to overlook what was happening. She thought of Bella as her own and because of this, she kept quiet. I also enjoyed Kate's perspective and found her parts of the book very interesting. Did anyone else feel that Bob Sykes focused too soon or too quickly on Glen? Was this why the case against him unravelled? Also, did anyone else blame Dawn, just a little bit, for leaving Bella unattended? Kate seemed to be very nice to Dawn (and later, Jean), was it genuine or did she just want the story?

Interesting points. I agree with both of you! I was most fascinated with the power dynamic between Jean and Kate. Kate starts off really strong but then you slowly realize how Jean is more in control of the situation than she led on. There was a lot of back and forth, which woman do you think had the upper hand?

-Fatuma

I loved that we got to see the different sides of Jean as the book progressed, I definitely agree with you, Fatuma, that she had more control than she let on, and Kate was forced to do what she wanted if she wanted to get the story. It was interesting to see the story unravel from Jean's point of view, it's not often that we hear from the wife or the widow and I enjoyed the change. I agree with you Christine I did feel sad for her in the end, her desire for a child took over. What did you think of Bob? I really liked his character and felt his anger and emotions about the case and how it haunted him. The ending was so bittersweet for him.

I definitely think that Jean had the upper hand with Kate. Kate wanted the story so badly and Jean knew it. When she felt betrayed by Kate, Jean dropped her without a second thought. I wanted Jean to stand up for Bella and tell the truth because I think that deep down, she knew what Glen had done. I think because Glen was the dominant one in their relationship that she never found the courage, until he died.
Laura, I really liked Bob but though his handling of the case was inept. I think he really wanted to find Bella so badly, he would do anything to get that result.
Does anyone else think that Jean knew all along what had happened? Or do you think she realized it much later, after he had basically confessed to her?

It seemed apparent that Jean was in a state of denial throughout her marriage and even after Glen's death. I think the book was clever in showing her come to terms with everything and finally being honest with herself.

I like the discussion about Bob. His motivation seemed the most interesting, would you consider his investment in the case as admirable or obsessive?

-Fatuma

Hi everyone! I really enjoyed the way this story unraveled and how we were kept guessing right up until the end...it was a roller coaster throughout, thinking they'd finally found the answer, the one piece of evidence they needed, and then having things fall apart over and over.

Christine - My perspective of Jean didn't change very much over the course of the book, as I had my suspicions about her fairly early on. Toward the end though, I did find myself thinking, "Wow, she's so cold", particularly when she was at the coroner's inquest. She had seemed more emotional through the rest of the book, but toward the end something snapped in her and I think she kind of lost it when she admitted what had happened. I did feel sad for her, but I was also angry that she didn't come forward once she knew where Bella was...but I also know that Glen had so much control over her, so then I feel sad for her again because she had to go through that. It's a vicious cycle :/

Sandra - I think Bob did focus too quickly on Glen. He should have waited until they had solid, irrefutable evidence before they started with court proceedings. The evidence was all there, they just had to dig deeper. I think we all knew after that chatroom session that Glen was guilty, but sadly & unfortunately, I guess that doesn't necessarily hold up in court.

Fatuma - I think Jean definitely had the upper hand with Kate. She let Kate think that Kate was in control, but it was always Jean. She only gave Kate the information she wanted her to have, and withheld things that would incriminate her and Glen.

Laura - I definitely liked Bob too, it was interesting to see how much a case can affect someone who (I think it was mentioned) had dealt with this sort of case before. When a child goes missing, of course it's devastating, but we don't always see the ways it affects law enforcement. But I do agree with Sandra, he didn't handle the case well - he was in too much of a rush to pin it on Glen. It's such a hard situation, because as a human being, of course you want to find the culprit immediately! "Bittersweet" is a good word for how the end must have felt for him.

Fatuma- I think Bob's investment in the case became very personal to him, especially after he was found not guilty. Obsessive, probably but also kind of admirable that he wanted to find Bella so badly.
Nikki- I agree that Jean deserved some sympathy, but my prevalent feeling was anger at her. She knew something that could have put a lot of people's minds at ease and chose to keep it to herself. Whether it was because of Glen's dominance or something warped inside herself, I'm not sure.
Michelle- I too didn't have a lot of sympathy for Dawn, I tried, but the author painted her as a kind of uninterested Mother and I feel that contributed a lot to Bella's kidnapping. Outside of fictional characters, I try not to be judgmental about news stories like this, but sometimes find it difficult. I think it's human nature, our way of thinking that something like this could never happen to us.

Michelle - I absolutely agree with not victim-blaming, and for most of the book I tried not to blame Dawn. After all, at first she said she was only gone for a couple of minutes and the street was empty. I'm not a parent, but I know there are a ton of things that need to be done all at once, and sometimes you slip up a little - or in this case, massively. Having said all that, as more information was revealed as to what Dawn was doing while Bella was abducted, I felt less and less sorry for her and instead I was just angry. But I like your point about her perhaps seeing her flaw and trying to redeem herself as a mother. I feel like when she got defensive whenever someone brought up the donations to Bella's fund, that could have been her insecurities and her knowledge that she had royally messed up showing through. What did you guys think of the way she reacted whenever the money was brought up?

Sandra - For sure, she could have put the whole case to rest. I think it was probably a mixture of those two things!

Nikki - I too have such mixed feelings about Dawn, but I think that's why she was so compelling. I certainly think that the way she handled things made her appear less sympathetic, but at the same time she was the victim in this situation and I think passing off the blame to her and away from Glen would be unfair.

So which scene did you find the most fascinating/interesting? I think Kate's clever maneuvering with Jean was certainly what had me hooked from the start.

I think the most fascinating scene, for me, was when Bob was showing Glen the scrapbooks found in his house. It was at this point that I realized just how obsessed Jean was with having a child and actually made me wonder if she was the kidnapper. I love these kinds of clues and nuances in the books I read. I spent a fair amount of time wondering if Jean could have done it, where she could have hidden Bella, etc. etc. That scene made the story more interesting, at least for me.

I definitely agree that the abduction was Glen's fault - he took Bella, that's horrible and should absolutely never happen. You're right, the blame shouldn't be on Dawn - after all, I'm sure if she KNEW her daughter was going to be abducted, she wouldn't have gone to make tea. It's such a tough situation and it's hard to put into words how I, and I'm sure all of us, feel about Dawn's situation!

Sandra - I started suspecting Jean at that point too, and after that I always wondered if it could have been her and if so, how Glen would have fit into the equation (because throughout, there was clearly something up with him). So really, they both had an unhealthy obsession with children, but in different ways.

I'm a little late to the party, but I just want to say that I thought this book provided an excellent take the process of solving a mystery, encompassing all the different POVs (though, of course, not Bella's).

One of the aspects of Barton's writing that I think was extremely well achieved was the way that she was able to convey Glen's domination of Jean through her choice of diction. At the beginning of the novel, it's clear that Jean doesn't have an identity of her own. It's either 'Glen' has an opinion, or 'we' or 'Glen and I' have an opinion. She doesn't do anything by herself, doesn't think by herself or even make decisions by herself. I think I must have read a different reformulation of 'that's what Glen and I think' about 47 times. At least. However, I think that as Jean's obsession with having a child begins to come to light - more specifically, her obsession with Bella - as well as Glen's sordid 'nonsense', she begins to slowly associate her sense of identity with the little girl and disassociate herself from Glen. This doesn't happen immediately, but as her contempt for her husband grows, I noticed that she was using 'we' and phrases like 'Glen and I' less and less.

I also thought this story presented a sobering perspective on the harsh reality of 'stranger-danger' in real life. It's just so easy to let one small detail slip - even in passing when you don't think anyone is listening or paying attention to you - that can snowball into a truly terrible situation.

As for Dawn, contrary to many people here, I think I actually found myself more cross with her in the first half of the book. Her actions were incredibly careless and Bella should NEVER have been allowed to be playing alone in the house, never mind outside. But as you have all said, society today blames victims of terrible crime much too often, and that's what Dawn is - a victim. I found myself relating to her more and more as the story went on. I admit, when I began the chapter where she begins by complaining about her life and explaining on she went online in the chat rooms, I assumed the worst. I was so angry with her. But, when I saw what she was writing in the chat rooms, that she was really just looking for someone to talk to because she felt lonely, I couldn't help but feel for her. I don't in any way think she didn't love her daughter, but it's definitely true that raising a baby on your own is no easy feat and can be quite lonely and tiring.

Finally, I think for a large part of the book I truly had no idea what was going to happen. Part of me knew that Glen had to be guilty, but Barton really saved implicating him explicitly until the very end to keep us guessing. Also, I want to note that this book is clearly very similar to The Girl on the Train in terms of format (many different dates, POVS) and they both ended with the wife delivering the fatal blow... interesting!

"They both had an unhealthy obsession with children, but in different ways" Nikki, I think you've put it brilliantly. A great way to sum it up.

Justine, you're right about her disassociating from Glen and instead associating herself with Bella. That's really interesting, I hadn't quite seen it that way in terms of her identity. It's like she can't have her own identity, it has to be largely shaped (in an obsessive way, it seems) or even dictated by someone else.

I felt for Dawn when we learned what she was writing in the chat rooms as well. I can certainly understand being lonely and wanting someone to talk to, I know being a single parent must be incredibly difficult. On the other hand, she was giving out so much information on there for strangers to see, I wish she had done her research about chat rooms and learned how they worked before giving info about her child and her location. I have mixed feelings, but again, it wasn't her fault - how could she have known her innocent discussions about her child were going to make a man obsess over and abduct her?

I liked that format, leaving it 'til the last few pages to reveal the truth. I always like endings that surprise me or make me go "Oh my god".

I haven't read "Girl on the Train" yet but I'm going to read it ASAP - heard so many good things about it!

Thanks! :)

I just finished this book yesterday, so am a little late joining the group discussion. I really enjoyed the style of writing where you obtained tidbits of information each chapter that made your mind go crazy trying to figure out the mystery.

One thing I am grateful for is that the author did not provide the gory aspects and detailed information about what happened when Bella was kidnapped by Glen. I wouldn't have been able to sleep at night!

Barb

I still don't completely understand how he killed Bella...

I agree with you.

Did he... Squeeze her to death?

Barb, I completely agree with you about how Bella was killed and am glad the author did not feel the need to give us the details. I chose to just ignore that aspect of the story completely! Interesting that no one knows exactly what happened. I think the author deliberately left it unclear so that each reader could draw their own conclusions, even thinking that Glen had killed her accidentally.

Hey all. Did I read this all in one day? Yes. Did I love it? No. It was definitely not the thriller I accepted it to be. I really enjoyed the writing style and the different perspectives of the case from everyone involved. I also liked the way seeing the story evolve from the time of Bella's disappearance and the time after Glen's death. I think it was the way the story was told that kept me reading rather than the actual plot. I found Jean very meak. Even her transformation after Glen's death was quiet and understated. That's not a bad thing. It actually lent to the feeling that I was reading about real people. All the characters seemed like they could be someone I could meet in real life.

Tyler, I sort of agree! I found that I continued reading because I was waiting for the jaw-dropping you typically get with thrillers. I was waiting for IT to happen. I'm still not quite sure what it is, and I'm not sure if happened. I understand a good thriller requires a good build up, but in this case I found that Barton was largely slowly revealing things that I had already assumed to be true.

I agree with you Tyler Leigh. Despite all the hype this is not a "can't put it down" thriller. It is more of a character study of two sick people and their relationship. Glen is very unlikable (of course) and "the widow" Jean isn't any more sympathetic than her pedophile husband. Glen's controlling, demanding nature and his refusal to give Jean the one thing she really wanted seems to have broken Jean. Her level of denial is astounding and yet totally understandable. He undermined her confidence and emotionally crippled her. She doesn't react in ways that a normal, mentally healthy person would understand but for her character her strangeness and remoteness make perfect sense. It's pretty terrifying to think that you could be married to a pedophile and not know but I think in many cases it is more a matter of not wanting to know than truly not having any clue. Jean shrugs off his "nonsense" in an effort to preserve her marriage which seems quite heartless and unfeeling. I think Jean shows an occasional glimmer of morality but it is so clouded by Glen's overwhelming presence, even after his death.

Question! Was the police justified in posing as Goldilocks in the chat room with Glen?

Justine - I'm pretty sure that it happens in real life. (Maybe I watch too much TV) Officers posing as kids and luring in pedophiles is rather brilliant!

Susan wrote: "I agree with you Tyler Leigh. Despite all the hype this is not a "can't put it down" thriller. It is more of a character study of two sick people and their relationship. Glen is very unlikable (of ..."

You worded my feelings about Jean perfectly Susan. Even at the end of the book I was left wondering if there was more to Jean than what was disclosed. The reason I felt this was because Glen had died and she could change the story and the truth to whatever would suit her best. Maybe it's just me being suspicious and thinking of all angles.

That's interesting Barbara. I hadn't really thought of it that way. I mean, we definitely have proof from the police of Glen being extremely suspicious in the chat rooms, indicating that he's definitely a character who's messed up on a psychological level. But to what extent is Jean? Do you mean, what if they were both in on it?

Yes, they could have both been in on it; but we will never know the truth because Glen died. Jean was therefore free to change the story to whatever would give her the most sympathy. I felt that she was somewhat manipulative at times.

Manipulative when?

Perhaps "manipulative" was the wrong word to use. She was not as forthcoming as she could have been. For example, she did not let the detective know about the laptop she had until he confronted her about friending Dawn on Facebook. It always seemed to me that there was more to Jean than what was being described in the book. Perhaps I've just read too many mysteries!

No no no, I agree with you. There was something about Jean that just didn't sit right with me. I'm not sure if I should completely forgive this though, as she did live with a monster. I pity her when I think of the extent of his power over her. It was so extreme that she returned home with him - completely alone - after finding out all the things that she did. I would have ran for the hills, gotten a restraining order, changed cities, maybe changed my name... Glen scares the crap out of me.

I so agree with you! You worded it perfectly!

I would have gotten out of the situation too. Easier said than done though.

I agree with what you all are saying, but I was suspicious of Jean from the start. I understand that she was dominated by Glen, but we really only have her word for that. Glen's is the only viewpoint we don't see, he may have a very different view of their marriage. We never have any impressions of Jean except for the ones that she herself gives us. She could be a master manipulator for all we know. Even Kate and Bob only offer images of Jean that she has allowed them to see. I find her one of the most fascinating characters for all of these reasons. We also only get glimpses of her early life, her mother is clearly suffering from some kind of mental illness and her father coddles her mother. Maybe Jean suffers some of these same issues?

You are so right about Glen's viewpoint being the one we didn't see in the story. I forgot about her childhood and the way her mother was. Jean could very well be suffering from the same issues. Great point!

I often wondered if Jean had her own mental health issues that got over shadowed by Glen or didn't present itself until the shock of everything happening brought it out. She started talking about Bella as her baby girl and being her forever mommy. There is definitely some delusions and some affection seeking.

Barb - I was glad Barton wasn't explicit in describing Bella's death too. I think the way she described it was really well-balanced in that we're obviously sad and disturbed that a child has died, while at the same time she kind of stays respectful by not describing Bella's death in detail...I hope that makes sense.

I agree, it was more of a slow burn than a non-stop thriller. Susan, that's a good way to describe this, a "character study" - that's very much what it is!

Justine - I think they were justified in doing that. Despite the court ruling, I didn't see it as entrapment & didn't really see it as them leading him for the most part - he was saying/doing what he would have with anyone else in the chat room.

That's really interesting, you guys are totally right. We saw how Jean withheld information from the detectives and the reporter, but what if she was also withholding information from us, the readers? Like you said Tyler, I definitely think she has delusions - the way she was talking about Bella is just not how a sane person would react in this situation.

We did get Glen's point of view for like one chapter, and we saw his fascination with Bella. I think it was pretty clear that he's a pedophile. But I'm definitely on the same page when it comes to Jean and mental health problems. Makes me reevaluate the whole novel... From what we know, what is real? Eerie.

I have been a GoodReads failure lately but I did read this book awhile ago so I thought I would stop by and add my own experience to the discussion.

I agree that the book was definitely more character-heavy and less thriller-intense than I expected, but it still managed to keep me turning the pages. I did not trust Jean when I started the book and I certainly didn't trust her at the end. So did events unfold as she described? Maybe. Were there clues she ignored, either out of fear or because she didn't want to disturb her own life? I wouldn't be surprised.

I did think Barton explored some very interesting power dynamics, between Jean and Glen, Jean and Kate, etc. Overall, the book was thoughtful but personally, I was still waiting for that real twist(s) that made it a truly satisfying thriller for me instead of an interesting read.

I just spent the whole weekend reading this book, and liked it, but found it a little predictable at times. Like some others, I guessed that Jeanie was responsible for her husband's death, but I still found her sympathetic.

I'm not as angry with her as some other people are. She got married so young that she never had a chance to discover who she was, her husband was overbearing and had some sick addictions, she couldn't have a child which was all she wanted, and she never had anything outside her life with Glen. I think after 15+ years of living under that kind of strain, she developed some severe mental health issues.

Of course she suspected that Glen was guilty, but even after he told her what he had done, she had literally nothing in her life but him. She was trapped in her marriage and her life. Her desire to visit Bella's grave showed that she was trying to cope with his decisions. Being Bella's "forever mommy" was her mind breaking with the strain of knowing what Glen had done. Honestly, I just pity her.

On the other hand, I found Kate to be repugnant. She was single- mindedly obsessed with getting the story, but not to solve the mystery of what happened to Bella, but to be the reporter that got The Widow to talk.

Overall, really good book. Not as thriller-y as I was expecting, but a really interesting character study. Thanks for the ARC Penguin!

Reading these messages totally made my Monday morning. You all make incredible points. I certainly found myself unsure of who to trust, and maybe the characters did have more to hide then we ever found out! Dastardly!

It seemed like Jean camouflaged a lot of her torment by trying to be the perfect wife. How far do you think she went to convince herself?

-Fatuma

I finished reading the book last night.  My feelings for Jean didn't change from the beginning to the end of the story. I don't have much sympathy for either Jean or Glen.  Both characters are sick in their own ways and both were manipulative of each other.  I don't believe Jean is a victim here. She chose to stick by her husband and refused to admit to herself that he is capable of such heinous acts even when this idea nagged her. She preferred to live in denial. She can stand up for herself when she chose to. For example when she was confronting Kate about the piece the latter wrote and as a result the public thought of her as a monster.

Did Glen's father know something about his son? There is some animosity between them that the author didn't explain about.

In my opinion, the most likable character in this novel would be DI Bob Sparks. He was trying to do the best job he can despite everything.

Fatuma, I really don't believe that Jean was tormented at all. I think she was a lot stronger and more manipulative than she is given credit for.
Justine, I went back and re-read Glen's one chapter. I agree, he was definitely a pedophile and there's no doubt he kidnapped Bella. But what happened after? We never see his viewpoint again, only Jean's version.
Christine, Very interesting point about Glen's Father! I think maybe he did know that Glen was not quite all that he seemed. I also agree that Bob was the most likable character in this book,
This is one of those books where I would love to be able to question the author!

Sandra - You're right! Having this discussion with the author would be so cool. I have about a million questions, because there are so many things left up to interpretation (which, we've covered a lot). I'm torn between wanting to know the real story from Fiona Barton's POV, and not wanting to know and leave the ending ambiguous. I liked being able to come up with my own conclusions and hearing everyone else's!

I am just wondering if Glen and Jean became who they are because of their upbringing. It looks to me that both had issues with one of their respective parents... Can it be? What do you think?

I mean, yeah, I think parents definitely play a big part in who someone becomes. They're the ones who bring you up during your formative years. So that definitely makes sense, I think it's a factor.

I just finished The Widow. I really enjoyed how the story was told from multiple perspectives as the story unfolded. I was not sure about what happened to Bella and who was responsible until the end. I wondered if Jean was involved or if the kidnapper was Doonan, or Bella’s father, or one of Dawn’s neighbours.

I read through all of the messages that have been posted and everyone has great points.

I also wondered if Jean’s mum’s issues affected her own mental issues - her obsession with children, calling Bella her baby girl, keeping a scrapbook of children’s pictures. In one chapter, Jean said that she knew her parents loved her, but her mum needed all of her dad’s attention. I wonder if she was drawn to Glen because he was so controlling of her and she liked the attention that he paid to everything she did.

I was never angry or upset with Dawn, even though we found out that not only did she leave Bella outside alone, but had given out so many details of her life in chat rooms and on Facebook. I mostly thought of her as young and naïve and lonely.

I liked DI Bob Sparkes and felt that he was really trying to find Bella alive and if he couldn’t do that, he wanted to find her body and bring the killer to justice. He did focus on Glen early, but it turns out that he was right.

I was also fascinated with how Kate worked her way into Jean’s home and was able to convince Jean to tell her story. In the end, Jean turned the tables and took ended up with the power in the relationship. Kate was also able to get into Dawn’s confidence. I think that she was really good at reading people and giving them what they need at the time. Of course, the goal is for her to get the exclusive story.

I don’t believe that Jean knew from the beginning what was going on, but I think that she figured it out little by little. I wonder if she suspected it by the time that she found the candy wrapper in the truck and kept the wrapper on purpose because her ‘baby girl’ had touched it.

Finally, agree with the others who said that they are glad that the author did not go into the details of Bella’s death.

So I read this pretty quickly, and while it kept me turning the pages, it didn't have the "aha" moment I usually look for in a thriller. I kept thinking right up until the end that there would be some incredible plot twist, but I didn't get that.

I did, however, enjoy the character development. I thought the different voices worked well and added dimension to the narrative. Having worked as a journalist before, I found it easy to relate to Kate, and DI Sparkes was a very sympathetic character.

It was also interesting to witness the unravelling of the relationship between Jean and her husband...it was clear from early on that the dynamic between them was pretty dysfunctional. Glen was overprotective, isolated Jean from friends and family, and fostered a sense of misplaced loyalty that led her to stand up for him until the very end. But I have to wonder why Jean was so weak. I couldn't really understand the hold he had on her...especially when the cracks began to show in his carefully crafted facade.

I'd say it was a solid read, but there are other thrillers I've found more compelling - for example, Before I Go to Sleep or The Girl on the Train.

One of the most interesting things I found with this book was the shifting power dynamics throughout. While to begin with Glen has a stranglehold on Jean, controlling pretty near all aspects of her life, as the story develops I found that Jean was starting to take back control. In that last week of Glen's life, when the guilt has eaten away at him, Jean exercises the threat of leaving him alone to control him and you can see in the way that she talks about this the thrill she gets from that control.

As already mentioned, the power between Jean and Kate was shifting, but ultimately I think Jean was more in control than Kate ever realised.

One of the other things I liked was that none of the characters were painted in stark black and white characteristics. They all had flaws, and made mistakes (Dawn neglecting to keep a close eye on Bella; Bob allowing himself to become obsessed with the case, etc), but they all (except maybe Glen) also had redeeming qualities. And even though Glen was not a character whose actions could be justified, he wasn't painted as an out-and-out monster with no remorse, or who didn't see any consequences for his actions.

Overall I thought it was an enjoyable thriller, but it wasn't genre-changing.

Penguin Random House Canada wrote: "Reading these messages totally made my Monday morning. You all make incredible points. I certainly found myself unsure of who to trust, and maybe the characters did have more to hide then we ever f..."

I think that it's pretty classic "battered-wife" syndrome, just that Glen's abuse wasn't physical. He controlled so much of Jean's life that the only way she could function and continue to justify her way of life was to become "Jeanie", the perfect wife. I found it interesting that Bob and Zara wondered how he was still controlling her form behind bars, but we see it even in his comments about her clothing and hoping that she's not letting herself go.