Queereaders discussion

Start discussion here.

Please remember to hide significant plot spoilers using the html code listed in the (some html is ok) link above the comment box.

I hope to start this one in a couple weeks. Looking forward to it!

I read this way back in the 80s. I need to dig it out and read it again. ;)

I read it back during college, about 12 years ago. My queer lit class was asking us to read The Beautiful Room Is Empty , and I decided to read this first.

Amazing read. The characters were very vivid and engaging, and I admire his drive to become more than what he was born as.

I'm on the second chapter now.

To be honest, some things in the first chapter shocked me a bit. (view spoiler)[A 12 year old (Kevin) inititating full anal sex!? A bit creepy (hide spoiler)]! Evening Crowd at Kirmser's: A Gay Life in the 1940s had some similar very early experiences in it; this is so far away from my own experience. Is it common for the era I wonder, these casual very early encounters?

Another thing that struck me as a bit creepy was his early sexual & romantic feelings for his father. His father is so distant though - even to be asked on one of his dog walks is a major event. White describes his own internal isolation well. Perhaps these feelings spring from his loneliness and isolation, his yearning for any kind of contact?

Despite these things, parts of the chapter are beautifully written! I love the descriptions of he and Kevin swimming, the light upon the water, etc, also the metaphoric way the chapter ends with the father's flashlight fading as the sun comes up

Alex wrote: "The characters were very vivid and engaging,..."

This is true Alex - already in the first chapter, there's something haunting about the father. He and the narrator are very well drawn I think.

Greg wrote: "I'm on the second chapter now.

To be honest, some things in the first chapter shocked me a bit. [spoilers removed]! Evening Crowd at Kirmser's: A Gay Life in the 1940s had some sim..."

My best friend and I tried it at 13, but didn't achieve it. We didn;t know what we were doing. There were no how-to sources back then, certainly no images or videos we had access to.

Kernos wrote: "My best friend and I tried it at 13, but didn't achieve it. We didn;t know what we were doing. There were no how-to sources back then, certainly no images or videos we had access to. .."

That's fascinating Kernos - I guess there were so many other problems going on for me in those days, it wouldn't have occurred to me at that age. Maybe I was just a late bloomer :)

Greg wrote: "I'm on the second chapter now.

To be honest, some things in the first chapter shocked me a bit. [spoilers removed]! ... "

I wasn't a member of the Boy Scouts, but from what I've heard from guys who were, that sort of thing was quite common.

I'm on chapter 4 now, and I'm much more impressed! It's astonishing how well White sketches the character of his mother and father. Not only do I feel like I understand them, but I can practically call them up before my eyes .. so deftly and vividly drawn. What a mess they are as people though: I feel sorry for the children having both parents such a mess!

I also like the knack he has for making abstract things concrete. Like this part, after his father spanks him with a belt: "in that moment the vital energies retreated out of my body into a small, hard gland of bitter objectivity, a gland that would secrete its poison through me for the rest of my life." Love the way he puts that!

Another thing: someone was mentioning the humor in the book in one of the threads in this group. The book definitely does have a dark humor .. at times very funny in a dark way. I love his preposterous 14 year old plan for escape with a hustler on a bus to New York, posing as an "English boy" with peroxided hair and an English accent. It's sad but also very darkly funny too.

And wow Rick, I think I was shelteted in my youth!

I found this book at the library. I'll be doing a late start, but with two weeks left in the reading period I expect I'll be able to finish it and provide comments at the very least.

In the meantime, here's the original review of the novel from when it was released in 1982, from none other than the New York Times. http://www.nytimes.com/1982/12/17/boo...

Andrew wrote: "I found this book at the library. I'll be doing a late start, but with two weeks left in the reading period I expect I'll be able to finish it and provide comments at the very least.

In the meanti..."

Thanks for the review link Andrew! :)

I'm in the final chapter now, but I'll hold off on making more comments until you have the chance to read a bit.

I've enjoyed following Queereaders, but this is my first comment, partly because I've read this one. It was last year, in a similar situation as Alex but it was my Gay Book Group that had selected to read "The Beautiful Room Is Empty," and I wanted to read this one first. I thought his 2nd one was better; still enjoyed this one but didn't think as highly of it as it sounds like some of you. Here's my overall review:
3.0 – Intelligent, Sometimes Too Intellectual Story of Gay Teen in 50's.
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

If you don't want to read the whole review, here's a summary: Edmund White is certainly an intelligent and prosaic writer. I mostly enjoyed reading the descriptions, introspection and philosophical musings of this teenager trying to come to terms with who he was (but sometimes it got a bit much). I like historicals, but here the times weren't described enough to get much of a feel of what it was like - it could have been any time any place. And as for characters, the MC was fleshed out well, but only him; and even then, unfortunately, I came to not especially like him. So on balance I was glad to have read it because I did at least like it and I got a feel of this noted gay author.

Tex Reader wrote: "...I like historicals, but here the times weren't described enough to get much of a feel of what it was like ..."

I definitely helped to have grown up in the period of the book - the 50's. It was a reminiscence for me. There are tons of similar. modern books to relate to, but nothing matches the power of this novel, IMO, if you can relate. It's a classic and more meaningful to me than Catcher In The Rye.

Kernos wrote: "Tex Reader wrote: "...I like historicals, but here the times weren't described enough..."

It definitely helped to have grown up in the period of the book ..."

Thanks for your thoughts, and I know many who agree. I grew up in the 50's and 60's myself, and maybe that's why I was looking for something more (but then again, it was in suburbia Texas). There were definitely a number of things to relate to, and I agree, more meaningful than that classic Catcher in the Rye. More so in that one, I particularly didn't feel much for the MC.

Tex Reader wrote: "I've enjoyed following Queereaders, but this is my first comment, partly because I've read this one. It was last year, in a similar situation as Alex but it was my Gay Book Group that had selected ..."

I'm on the last chapter. So far, it's beautifully written and has some extraordinarily vivid character sketches, more physically vivid than psychologically vivid though, except for the mother .. I think he has the mother completely pegged. And the father I think is deftly drawn as well, a bit remote, but I think that's the whole point. Both the mother and father are so troubled!

I do agree with you about the rest of the characters though Tex Reader (other than the narrator, mother, and father). They're described in a physically vivid fashion, but the psychological understanding of the other characters is not very deep. I think that's because the narrator is young and troubled and hasn't learned yet to see anyone as a full individual apart from him. They're all described in terms of his own obsessions and hangups, and that says more about him than about them.

He doesn't really know them. I guess that's the point, but you're right, it doesn't make the narrator super sympathetic. I feel sad that he's such a mess and I fully understand given the social environment and his upbringing why he's such a mess, but I don't really like him. Despite the highly evocative writing style, I think those limitations of his perspective are making me feel remoter from the story than I'd expected. I like the book, but I expected to love it more than I do based on its high reputation.

One other slight detraction - I feel as though it's a collection of stories/happenings rather than a coherent memoir. I don't feel a strong sense of the story developing in a single, coherent way.

I do like the extreme candor of the story though. White is clearly not trying to tell a fantasy or put his younger self in a better light. I also love the style of the writing itself, undoubtedly wonderful! ... but I don't necessarily love the story itself.

It's on track so far toward about 3 1/2 stars from me. Of course a stellar ending could bump that up though. I am very happy I finally read it.

Greg wrote: "Tex Reader wrote: "I've enjoyed following Queereaders, ... I've read this one...

Greg'a reply: ...I think that's because the narrator is young and troubled and hasn't learned yet to see anyone as a full individual apart from him..."

I can see what you're talking about with all your points, and btw, thanks for liking my review. I thought that too about the first person pov (as well as the scrapbook structure) - I've found that that choice by an author can have the downside of only seeing things thru the narrator's eyes, and this one has yet to mature. I agree about White's style of writing, so you might think about reading Beautiful Room. You might check my review on that too, but you'll find that I liked it a little better - even better writing, and I actually grew to like the MC more.

Strange... I just noticed this was book 1 of The Edmund Trilogy. How are those a trilogy? I've not read the last two. Are they all a memoir of White's life?

Kernos wrote: "Strange... I just noticed this was book 1 of The Edmund Trilogy. How are those a trilogy? I've not read the last two. Are they all a memoir of White's life?"

I think so Kernos; the three are all memoirs, and they go in order increasing in age. I haven't read the others yet either.

Kernos wrote: "Strange... I just noticed this was book 1 of The Edmund Trilogy. How are those a trilogy? I've not read the last two. Are they all a memoir of White's life?"

Yeah, they are, increasing in age. They're all quite elegant and lyrical in language, and with beautiful imagery. The third starts way later than the second one, though.

Just finished - I really liked his description of his time with the Scotts; lots of deep perception there I think.

I have to say though, I was really pissed off by what he did to Beatty near the end. I can understand his behavior psychologically, but it appalled me.

Overall, beautifully written though, no doubt about that!