World, Writing, Wealth discussion

Could it be that that's THE question?
I understand and agree that it's a subjective matter, that there always will be someone who loves exactly what you've written and all that.. All true. Yes, but...
I'm asking myself whether I can wholeheartedly vouch to have written a great book? I sincerely don't know. I'm not alone. Harlan Coben in his recent interview that I've read, says even after all those successful books, he feels the same uncertainty about a new one, he's about to release.
Whoever you can ask, like friends, family, colleagues, most likely won't tell you the truth for different reasons.
In my case I know for fact that some people liked it and some others didn't. I think that most people don't like to leave bad reviews, so where I have a couple of low ratings, there should be a few more probably.

Yet, even if some people like it, is it sufficiently good so they would recommend it further, because that's a major catalyst of sales? Can I compete for readers' hearts with John Grisham, Lee Child, Tom Clancy or other renowned names?
How do you answer these questions for yourself? If you ask that is -:)

I think my book is the bee's knees.

Obviously I haven't shown it to anyone, ever. I don't like my bubbles burst!

I can spin a tale, I know.

Kat wrote: "I think my book is the bee's knees.

Obviously I haven't shown it to anyone, ever. I don't like my bubbles burst!"

Haha, one may argue, that the best way of hiding it, may be through ....




.....publishing on Amazon -:) It's so easy to hide something among millions of other titles

Mehreen wrote: "I can spin a tale, I know."

Yes, you can -:)

Denise wrote: "My books are awesome sauce. :D

These questions are unanswerable. No one knows what mainstream wants. You have horribly written books turn phenomenon. There are many books out there with great writ..."

Sounds like a good approach. If you forget, we'll remind -:)

I totally agree that these questions are unanswerable! At the same time, there are different levels/types of "goodness":

1) You like your own book. Fantastic! You've made something that makes you happy and probably has some kind of intrinsic merit. To use an example taken from Russian literature, after Pushkin finished writing the original version of "Boris Godunov" he supposedly read it out loud to himself (he was under house arrest at his family's country estate), clapped his hands, and said, "Oh Pushkin, oh you son of a bitch!" Then of course there was censorship, criticism, etc. etc., but now that the original version of "BG" has been reconstructed, it's still pretty damn good. So it wasn't "successful" in the sense that it didn't gain lots of money and fame for its author, but it helped him get through his house arrest and produce something he took pride in. Also, grad students get to read it and write papers about it.

2) Your book is a popular hit. Great! You've tapped into the collective unconscious in some way. Yes, a lot of those kinds of books are maybe not immortal gems of prose, but they resonant deeply with lots of people (and happen to get the magic amount of exposure that is necessary for a book's popularity to achieve critical mass). A lot of the huge bestsellers I've read (e.g., 50 Shades, Twilight, GoT, etc.) manage to access archetypes in a meaningful and yet just-unusual-enough way for them to seem really exciting to lots of people. So even if the prose in Twilight isn't as sophisticated and polished as some people would like, it's done something that more "literary" books can't, which is also a kind of merit.

3) It's entered the canon of "great literature." Also awesome. Maybe it was a hit when it was published, maybe it wasn't, but it's touched something that resonants with people in later generations.

Unfortunately, the author doesn't have a lot of control over items 2 and 3, and isn't necessarily the best judge of what other people like. To use an example from music, Tchaikovsky supposedly hated "The Nutcracker," but I think most people would agree that it's a pretty fine piece of music. So I guess just keep writing stuff and throwing it out there and maybe some of it will stick!

E.P. wrote: "I totally agree that these questions are unanswerable! At the same time, there are different levels/types of "goodness":

1) You like your own book. Fantastic! You've made something that makes you ..."

Excellent and interesting examples, E.P. Didn't know the backstory of BG.

I would settle for 'some kind of intrinsic merit' in my work -:)

Hmm, looks like Tchaikovsky failed the first category and went straight for the third -:)

We all think our own work is good, otherwise we would not publish it. Unfortunately, we are biased towards our own work, so we can't tell. I think my works are good; my sales tell a different story :-(

Ian wrote: "We all think our own work is good, otherwise we would not publish it. Unfortunately, we are biased towards our own work, so we can't tell. I think my works are good; my sales tell a different story..."

So very true, however I'm not sure whether sales is the only objective criterion for measuring 'goodness'

The one thing I'm interested in is for people to read my book and write critical appreciations. Whether or not they borrow them from a library or a friend or purchase a copy is irrelevant.

Yep, that's the art side of writing and I totally understand that. The business side though would still want some sales -:)

E.P. wrote: "there are different levels/types of 'goodness'"

good summary. (2) pop culture; (3) the Ivory Tower Syndrome. (2) and (3) seem to be continuously at odds.

(this is a great discussion and a great group. thanks for inviting me, Nik! and thanks everyone in advance for letting me ramble on about my theories.)

beyond the basics of using language effectively enough to tell a story (Aristotle's Poetics is the arbiter in this area), what is good is, simply put, taste. taste is specific to historical period, culture, and genre (which could be further subdivided into sub-genre). there is the collective unconscious--perhaps, Jung's archetypes--or tropes out of which readers can always get enjoyment out.

interestingly, as people read more, most of them become more critical and want more complex and new characters and plots. for example, many readers will get tired of the trope about prince charming rescuing the damsel in distress after reading it a million times. yet, not too new. there's a tension between wanting the new, but holding onto the familiar.

Nik wrote: "... is it sufficiently good so they would recommend it further, because that's a major catalyst of sales? Can I compete for readers' hearts with John Grisham, Lee Child, Tom Clancy or other renowned names? ... I'm not sure whether sales is the only objective criterion for measuring 'goodness'"

true, sales is not the only object criterion of the measurement of the "goodness" of a work; however, in an economic system--of which the production of art, and thus writing, is part--it is the one that counts the most. however, sales in inextricably tied up with marketing and reaching an audience. nevertheless, amazon does provide you with sales stats and the ratings. so, you can do some statistical analysis and find the overall satisfaction rating.

onto marketing. you don't have to find out what the mainstream wants. you just have to find out what your niche is. (given, sometimes that niche might be too small to support your work. then it is up to you how much you want to change you're writing to suit a larger niche.) for example, romance and erotica are genres that are also very large niches, but even within them are smaller niches. a friend of mine who is a published writer said that bear shifters are in vogue now.

with the ease of digitization of content and high-bandwidth, highly reliable internet access in practically every developed and many developing nations, we're in an unprecedented era of economic and artistic opportunity. on the consuming end of the economic pipeline, readers can now easily find and sort through--using a variety of criteria (aka filters)--a plethora of competitively priced books.

and now, if you agree with me so far, i'll provide the beginnings of the ingredients for my not-now-so-secret not-really-ground-breaking sauce to successful marketing. (this will probably change after I read Hyatt and Cialdini.)

1) Publish your work and more--in the same universe (or at least genre) would help to create momentum--on amazon and/or smashwords.

2) write short fiction and publish in online magazines; it would be ideal if they were in the same universe as your novel.

3) build your brand on the websites that have the most number of readers in your niche. some that come to mind are amazon, goodreads, patreon, wattpad, smashwords, B&N, apple, other distributors (although smashwords covers most), twitter, tumblr, instagram.

4) build your brand w/the biggest, legitimate book reviewers.

5) expand your brand into other media (aka media tie-ins) such as digital illustrations, short animation, mobile apps.

6) get a contract w/a publisher (last b/c, then you are subject to a whole slew of contractual obligations).

Glad you enjoy the group, Alex, and thanks for contributing your own vision and ideas.
I'm not sure how many billionaires joined -:), but there are smart and experienced members here with comprehensive and non-trivial insight that I learn a lot from and I hope to also bring something to the table.

I think your strategy makes a lot of sense. You'll soon be in a position to check it out empirically, and I wish you an excellent launch and steady/growing sales. Even if it doesn't put you on NYT bestseller list, it shouldn't hurt to build a brand and to expand into different media...

One of the reasons why I'm asking those questions is because I'm trying to make up my mind whether to invest in paid advertising and other paid marketing at some stage, when I have a little more titles. So far I haven't and hesitating whether to try. Don't want to accumulate more sunk costs and throw good money after bad -:) More so, since I get an impression that my work can hardly appeal to a broad range of readers. From what I learn from reviews, many have trouble with Russian names and setting.

On the other hand, if I was sufficiently confident in perspective, I could think of going bigger.
I mean investment of a few k in any business is considered modest, but with just a few k I could probably have a bigger budget than any publisher allocates per any one book.
So proceeding low-key in the meantime, but weighing options..-:)

Nik, No, sales are not really a measure of goodness at all, after all I really doubt that 50 Shades was bought for its "goodness" by very many. On the other hand, sales are things that come to mind from time to time, and i could not resist the rueful comment.

Thought so -:)
In most cases I understand why this or that book became a bestseller, yet regarding some others I've no clue and fail to see much 'goodness' in them at all. But it's hard to argue with success... Sometimes even a mediocrity can be a decisive factor

From the hardcore sales perspective, let's first define, "good sales". How much sales will make a writer happy? Harry Potter sold 8 million copies around the world. From what I've seen on movies, I hardly think it is literary enough for me to buy a copy. Then it comes down to children's fiction. Perhaps children's fiction would sell better. And then there is sex and violence! Literary fiction will turn pale in comparison. What should we write then to boost our sales? How much is enough?

Me, I write what I would like to read, and try to write it in a way I am proud to show it to anyone else. I am not interested in writing what someone else says will boost sales, largely because if I did, by writing what I don't believe in, I would probably make a mess of it anyway. I write what I think is good from my point of view and let the sales sticks fall where they will.

Me too, Ian. However, boosting sales is another ball game. I advise to them would be to do market research and find out what books sell and what doesn't. For me, I write what I enjoy - sales or no sales. That's not to say that my books don't sell but to a niche market perhaps, not 8 million copies surely.

The dual nature of art and business in writing is pretty evident like that of waves and particles -:)
On the one side, we strive to express what we ourselves consider interesting in the hopes that more people will find it intersting too, expecting some acclaim, while on the other it would be much nicer that on top of recognition we could live off of writing, more so since many of us invest some funds into delivery.
Millions play football/soccer for enjoyment or sing songs in the shower or karaoke bars, but few are able to earn from it... -:)
Damn, sales are hard -:) Millions? I'd settle for steady stream of dozens

I agree Nick. Sales are hard and harder still is to know what sells. Rowlings did not know that Harry Potter would be such a great success.

Mehreen wrote: "I agree Nick. Sales are hard and harder still is to know what sells. Rowlings did not know that Harry Potter would be such a great success."

I'm afraid I'm starting to discover on my own example what doesn't sell -:) and I'm not sad or bitter about it.
I take my hat off to Ms. Rowlings, who saw it through the difficulties and became sort of an oligarch, didn't she? She's one of the richest persons in the UK and rated high as one of the most influential, all that not through oil, weapons or high-tech but through old-school writing no less.
Can't claim to be a big fan of the series, but wikipedia says 400 Mil books were sold worldwide and that alone deserves respect

Indeed!

Mehreen wrote: "For me, I write what I enjoy - sales or no sales. That's not to say that my books don't sell but to a niche market perhaps, not 8 million copies surely. ."

that's great! you have found your niche and are happy there.

Nik wrote: "On the one side, we strive to express what we ourselves consider interesting in the hopes that more people will find it intersting too, expecting some acclaim, while on the other it would be much nicer that on top of recognition we could live off of writing, more so since many of us invest some funds into delivery.
Millions play football/soccer for enjoyment or sing songs in the shower or karaoke bars, but few are able to earn from it... -:)"

those are two very good points.

(1) the gap between the art/entertainment that we want to create and what people want to read.

art production changed throughout history. first there was cave paintings, then religious art, crafts (art meant to decorate utilitarian objects), decorative art for royalty and nobles and then the nouveau riche; and then art for middle class and academia (what i call the Ivory Tower Syndrome) and even the economically poor in developed countries. the value of art, including writing, is tied to the audience, the consumer. ever since the advent of the industrial age, we've seen a more-or-less steady--and sometimes rapid--advancement to a more diverse audience/consumer and so we have more opportunity to write many different things to many different people. hence the conundrum: i write, but for whom?

(2) to make a living from creating art.

it's not a given, that artists should be able to make a living from their art, is it? it's not like selling something that people physically need like toilet paper (or a bidet, depending on your part of the world) or farming or clothes. once i realized this several years ago, i was able to resolve myself to work hard and persevere.

My usual answer to the popular question on the interviews, hosted by bloggers and fellow authors, 'what's your advice to aspiring authors?', is 'make money elsewhere and come enjoy being an author' -:)

Many intelligent and provocative comments. What's art? Classic answer: I don't know, but I know art when I see it. But some forms of art can't be judged instantaneously. Books for instance. So the reader has to do his time. How does the writer shift the reader to her book? Some helpful suggestions above, but one thing I'm sure of is that the writer can't will it, can't get someone to read his work just by insisting it's good. In Hollywood, they say if you have a good script you can throw it out your car window and it will get made. The point is that people will find their way to something if it's truly (objectively) good. Fingers crossed.

Ian
I completely agree with you.

To everyone else - great points and great discussion.

I know my nonfiction parenting guide may never sell a lot of copies but it is a book I am so proud of. Before I wrote one chapter I wrote the dedication - the book was dedicated to my beloved late mother. That constantly reminded me to do my best to write a quality book. I kept her in mind when I was writing, formatting, editing etc.

So now I am really proud of the book and people who read it think it is good. I may never sell a lot of copies but what others think matters to me.

Alex, Tara, welcome to the group and good luck with your books!

Alex, you offer a somewhat deterministic approach and who knows - Darwin's theory may work in literature as well -:)
Intuitively it should be right, but with a couple of reservations, in my opinion, - you need to ensure the book's discoverability for a rather long period of time to give it a chance to gain 'virality' and 'good' is still subjective. I would rather replace it with 'appealing to a broad enough readership'. I mean take Irvine Welsh, for example ('Trainspotting' movie is based on his novel, if someone haven't heard about him), his books are written in some barely comprehensible, for anyone outside Scotland, slang and I'm pretty sure many hate the content he offers, yet there is a readership for his stuff and he became a rather big name...

Tara, 'parenting' has a constantly renewing and large readership. Just like your book made you proud, I hope it'd make you richer as well -:)

Mehreen wrote: " For me, I write what I enjoy - sales or no ..."

Same!I write what I like, I live through my book in a way. My characters become real people, and when bad things happen I cry, when good things happen I smile. Its great. I write to write, to get a story out there. Hopefully people read it and enjoy. If by some miracle thousands of people start reading my books, I wont complain! But I just want my friends to be able to enjoy them with me.

So to answer, How good is your book? Its AWESOME! But its also not everyones cup of tea.

Nik
I never quite thought of it that way but you make an excellent point. I see a glimmer of hope LOL

Your readership's magnitude seems to have linkage to a birth rate -:)

lol! This is a great thread.

Full disclosure: I was on another gr thread that centered around indie authors supporting one another. There was the sense that it is us against the world. While it certainly feels that way sometimes the point is that we are fortunate to share our words with the world and we should work hard to put quality books out there. By quality I mean editing, formatting, design, attention to detail etc. I commented that we owe one another our support but if we are honest with one another about obvious flaws we help the author exponentially more than just giving them 5 stars in a review swap. We improve as indie authors, put out good books and improve the tattered reputation of indie authorship.

Needless to say my comment was deleted. When I weighed in again and tried to soften my words that comment was deleted as well.

So, yes, I love the honest and helpful exchanges on threads like these!

Ha, I know what you mean and I've encountered such groups and attitude...
I even remember feeling like some moderators were on Amazon's payroll selling the mantra: 'keep writing and everything will be good' and deleting anything that ran against this happy delusion... (this probably belongs to conspiracy groups though -:))
Supporting each other is fine, but not through misleading and false hopes, I think. And I agree with you that honest opinions is more helpful than fakely positive..
There are usually costs, time and efforts involved in the production process, so I'd be kinda cautious in anything encouraging further and further releases unless it's a sober, thought-out decision...

Nik
Agree

This is one reason i get more excited about beta reads than reviews. I often decline the review if the book is horrible and privately email the author my opinions. Maybe that is too much coddling but I can't help it. I prefer beta reading because i can be of service to a writer before the book is finished.

Yep, that's a good way to help and at the same time avoid the need to criticize the accomplished work of another author...

Tara wrote: "Nik
Agree

This is one reason i get more excited about beta reads than reviews. I often decline the review if the book is horrible and privately email the author my opinions. Maybe that is too much..."

That's really admirable, Tara. I'm glad you're around.

Alex

Thank you so much! I have been fortunate enough to come across a few real diamonds in the rough and it gives me so much hope for us unaffiliated riders out here :-)

The thing is even writers with big publishers behind them use editors extensively. We get their polished product. So all we have to do is apply that same mentality to our riding and we deserve as much a seat at the table as everyone else. Unfortunately, many of us lack the discipline to follow through with the drudgery of editing and proper formatting. The rest of us simply could benefit from other people looking at our work and giving us constructive criticism. That's why I get so happy when I see people on the thread asking for feedback and beta readers. They make me proud and I try to help whenever and wherever I can.

Good points, Denise!

A couple of remarks:
- I see that many complain about 'disappearing Beta phenomenon'. For the book I'm working on now, I think I've applied to 6-7 people offering Beta reading here on GR, only one of them on a paid basis. One disappeared on me (or maybe he/she's still reading the MS, I don't know -:)), while I got back 5 or 6 very helpful Beta reports and paid only for 1 of them. So my own experience is quite positive with what's being offered here on GR.
- I'm not sure, we (writers) are alone in the Art Universe. I think today YouTube and the likes provide equally accessible platform for anything visual - from songs, to movies, clips, anything. I just checked 'hand made art' on Amazon's search and it returned with at least dozens of pages of paintings and other art objects. I don't think anyone has to sneak into the studio these days to record a song, like Jon Bon Jovi's beginning myth -:). Don't know whether there is an influx there, but certainly the internet availed multiple opportunities to many arts. And I heard of at least few - 'indie' singers/musicians coming out from YouTube, even to Eurovision contest, if I'm not mistaken

And 'Gangnam Style' thanks to YouTube became something like a musical 'Harry Potter', I can't help this bizarre association -:)

Denise and Tara: I absolutely agree with you. I've found the same thing, with the same group.

Many indie authors don't seem to do any research about how to produce a product that has a decent chance in the market, and don't seem to be interested in being told anything other than: "You're a nice person, your writing is fantastic, just keep on doing what you're doing - your time will come!"

Personally, when I hand my manuscript over to the other members of my writing group for critique, I know that if it's awful, they'll say so. In detail. With examples. Turnabout being fair, since I've done the same to them... :-)

The most efficient way to get better is to have other people tell you where you're going wrong. And the people to ask about how to produce and market a book aren't the people who've sold three copies - it's the people who've sold thousands.

However, look on the bright side (from an author perspective). Every book that is badly written, badly edited (or not at all), and thrown together with a my-six-year-old-daughter-did-this cover is a book that not only isn't competing, it isn't even in the race.

I, too, tend to decline to review a self-published author's first book if I've read it and it's not good - like you, I prefer to send constructive feedback to the author directly. One/two star reviews have their place - but doing that to a first-time indie author seems a bit like kicking them when they're down. If their book is bad, then they deserve bad reviews - but I'm not going to be the one to do it! :-)

Trad published authors, on the other hand, have a publishing house and an editor behind them, so they can take their licks!

As to how I measure how good my book is...
1. Does the plot and pace work?
2. Is there any actual emotion in it? (Rather than sounding like a lab report.)
3. Does it feel like it's of the same standard as authors I admire?
4. How many pages of criticism do my beta-readers produce? [And did any of them give up part-way through? Did any of them rush out of the building crying "No more! No more! I can't take any more!"]

But when push comes to shove, you do the best quality assurance you can with the resources you have available.

Denise,

I feel like you're stuck in my head because I feel exactly the same way you do.

TK,

You're right up there with Denise. The only small thing I disagree with is your assessment that only best selling authors can give credible advice on how to produce and market books. I would just say I agree to the marketing but not the production angle. I have come across best sellers that could use some editing lol. I also have to toot my own horn and say that I know a great deal about producing a brick and mortar worthy book but I totally suck at marketing and so do not have impressive sales.

Otherwise you and Denise and Nik have restored my faith!

I think anyone lucky enough to be in a dedicated writing group can really benefit from the constructive criticism. Maybe something like that could work on gr - a small group of people who are roughly at the same place, timewise. The group should be small, of course.

Denise,

That's really the best we can do, isn't it? I know that art is subjective and i am not the judgy type when it comes to material. There is a book for every taste. But when a book is badly conceptualized and executed it makes it tough for all of us, as you so accurately stated.

I think that is why Amazon is able to force us to accept Kindle Unlimited. Why should readers pay top dollar for a book that will probaly not even qualify for a trad pub's slush pile. It makes me sad but I also remind myself of why I write. I have something to say and I hope to say it well enough to get paying readers to take a chance on the material.

I went to bookbub to check out the parenting deal for today and I was appalled by how bad the book appeared. Horrible homemade cover and only FOUR reviews, and not all of them 5 stars. I think even bookbub is bewitched by a high rank in Amazon and a trad pub behind a bok's title. So disappointing, really.

Tara - bestseller I'm not saying one should only take advice from authors who are already bestsellers. However, if you don't know anything else about the person, an objective measure of success (e.g. having sold 50,000 books) indicates that they must be doing something right. So, all else being equal, people who are already successful are going to be your first port-of-call for advice because they have, in some respects, already been validated (by the marketplace).

On the other hand, if someone has only sold 3 copies of their book, you have to ask yourself why that is. Is it well produced but poorly marketed (listen to them on production, not on marketing)? Is it so badly produced, or so generally awful, that even great marketing won't help?

It's never a good idea to just believe what you're told without question, but external validation ("I did this and it worked; here are the results") can give you some confidence that a person's advice is useful.

Kindle Unlimited - from what I hear, from the reader's angle, you get to pick as many books as you like for your subscription. From the author's, you have to be exclusive to Amazon (I think) and you get paid per-page-read.

From what I've heard, Kindle Unlimited has best value for new authors who don't already have fans, as it enables people to try you out essentially "for free" without you having to make your first-and-only book free to everyone. However, once you have more than one book in a series, you can make the first book free, and if it's good enough people will pay actual money for the next one. Plus, you can then expand into the other platforms (Kobo/iBooks).

KU is probably more worth it for people who anticipate their customers will be mostly in the US/UK, where Amazon is big. In Canada, Kobo has a bigger market share than Amazon (for ebooks), so if you're aiming at Canadians, you wouldn't want to deprive yourself of Kobo.

Poor reviews - well, that's the down side, isn't it? I don't think it's possible to write a book that everyone will like. However, you can minimise the chances of putting out something that really is awful by getting it beta-read/critiqued by someone whose opinion you trust - and who will be willing to say, "This is dreadful. I wouldn't even use it as toilet paper."

You don't necessarily need a writing group - just beta-readers you trust, who have high standards and are willing to tell you what they think doesn't work. Once your work has been through a few of those, you can be fairly confident that although perfection is forever out of reach, at least your stuff is competent. Then you can comfortably ignore reviews that say your writing is horrible (unless they give specific examples and you agree they have a point). You can't please everyone, and trying will only send you mad.

That, of course, is another marketing angle... make sure you are marketing to the people who will like your style and content. There are conventions in most genres (including different strands of non-fiction); a literary-fiction style isn't likely to go down well if you're marketing your book as young-adult-paranormal-romance. And vice versa. There might be nothing wrong with the style per se, it's just that people have expectations when they pick up a book. You can derail some of them, but not all, if you want to keep your readers.

It's not nice to get your work back with loads of comments, plus a long-form document describing all the problems, but it's worse to think that if you hadn't it would have gone public with the problems still in...

Indie authors - Denise, I know what you mean about people being unwilling to take a chance. I've come to the conclusion that the best way forward is not to look like an indie author, at least to a superficial glance. There was a poll here on Goodreads, and very few people choose their books by publisher; that's good for indies, because it means people are picking their books in other ways. They may instinctively avoid anything that looks self-published at first glance, but they probably won't dig deeper to check that the imprint name is an actual small press.

Some conclusions I've come to:

1. Get a professional cover designed, even if you have to save up for months. If you really, really can't, then look at books in your genre and pick out some simple cover designs (from successful authors) that you could use for inspiration. Lois McMaster Bujold's new ebook covers are a good example. The more complicated you try to be, the more wrong it can go...

2. Pay attention to style. Try to fit in with your genre, and that includes whether the title/author name are in caps or sentence case.

3. Do not ever put "by" on your cover. It's something only indie authors do: "What I Did On My Holidays, by T.K. Elliott." It's like waving a flag: "Indie author here!"

4. Do not put your author name in tiny print in the bottom right-hand corner, as if it's embarrassed to be there and is trying to crawl inside to hide. This is something a lot of indie authors do, and I don't know why. But it's another flag. It's your book. Be proud.

5. Consider using an imprint name. This makes it look like you're published by a small press. If readers are frightened off by obvious self-publishing but generally don't pick by publisher, probably just something that isn't author's name/KDP/Smashwords etc in the "publisher" box will do the trick.

I believe that good production values do make a significant difference to a book's chances. A professional appearance on the outside leads the potential reader to believe that the inside will be just as professional - and the reverse holds true. If one sees a book that looks amateurish on the outside, it leads one to believe that the writing and editing will be amateurish too, and not something to waste money or time on. Whether that is correct or not doesn't matter - if people never buy the book, they will never find out how good it is.

What do you think?

Tiffany

Hey Tiffany,

Some sound points. It looks like you have a comprehensive vision on the art/biz. I wish I was half that knowledgeable before airing my first book -:)
Speaking about bestsellers - maybe we are witnessing one now in the making. Evan Pickering who happens to be a member here is kicking a*s ever since his debut launch in Jan. And he was insolent enough -:) to partially design his own cover.
Anyhow I hope sharing some know-how, meeting people and mingling shall ultimately help each of us improve what we already have, enhance sales, start with a better launch (for those who plan one) and not less importantly - have some fun along the way....

Denise wrote: "Does this post count for today's word count? LOL!"

Impressive count indeed! You are exempted from writing any more today -:)

Denise wrote: "Did you ever have a dribble of a plot in mind, daunted by the idea that you had no clue where the story and characters were going to go?..."

Sure, that's probably the most exciting - creative part of writing. Good luck and a muse!

Nik said:

Evan Pickering who happens to be a member here is kicking a*s ever since his debut launch in Jan. And he was insolent enough -:) to partially design his own cover.

He talked about how he did his marketing over in one of the other groups, and I'm dutifully following his advice! It's always great to hear about an indie author who does well - especially when s/he is willing to share their process.

Free books - good advertising or failure?
Smashwords has done a survey on book sales and earnings every year for the last four years, and here's a link to the 2015 one: http://blog.smashwords.com/2015/12/Sm...

They conclude that series that offer the first book free end up earning more.

Actually, this is not an indie thing: Baen Books (who are a trad SciFi publisher - they do David Weber, Lois McMaster Bujold, and a few other big names) have been doing it for years. Here's a link to their "Free Library": http://www.baen.com/catalog/category/...

Back in the old days, when I bought David Weber in hardback, it would come with a CD-ROM of the whole free library in the back.

I read about it ages ago; apparently when Jim Baen first thought of the idea of giving stuff away for free, other publishers thought he was crazy. Oh how they laughed. They stopped laughing when they saw the sales figures... But, of course, drug dealers have been doing it even longer: give them the first hit for free, and then charge them when they're hooked!

People don't like to take risks, so giving people a taste for free allows them to discover a new author risk-free. I don't know how it would work for authors who don't write in series, but the evidence so far indicates that it works well if you do. I suppose it's the extreme example of a loss-leader. Even Amazon does it with their kindles: they're selling them pretty much at cost (the cheaper ones at least; I don't know about the new Oasis!) and making their money on the ebooks.

Can understand the trick and might use it as a marketing tool, but I'm too not very excited with the free book idea, because of its devaluing message. Was thinking of writing a short story and making it permafree.

Nik said: Evan Pickering who happens to be a member here is kicking a*s ever since his debut launch in Jan. And he was insolent enough -:) to partially design his own cover.

Yes, he posted on another group, describing what he'd done in production/promotion. It's always great to hear from and indie author who's done well - and who is willing to share his/her methods. I'll be following his advice!

Free books
Is a vexed question. People seem to think it's an indie thing, but it's not. Baen Books (SciFi/Fantasy trad publisher) have been doing it for years. They were early adopters of ebooks, and were giving out free books on CD-ROM in their hardbacks before kindles were invented, I think - certainly before kindles were available in the UK. The "Baen Free Library" is still going strong.

Apparently when Jim Baen started giving away stuff for free, other publishers laughed and predicted the end of his business. They stopped laughing after they saw the sales figures.

Smashwords does a survey of authors' earnings and associated data every year - has done for the last four years. Here's a link to 2015's survey: http://blog.smashwords.com/2015/12/Sm...

As you can see, it's pretty interesting - and one of their findings was that series with free starters earn more money.

It's not really rocket science: people are generally risk-averse when it comes to spending money, so they're reluctant to take chances on new authors. But if you let them take a chance on you risk-free, they're more likely to do it - and when they like your book, they'll buy the next in the series.

Obviously, if you have a philosophical objection to giving away your work for free, then it's not for you - and I don't know how it would work for authors who don't write in series. But for me, the numbers are on the side of a permafree series starter.

Of course, when I market my book (after I've written the thing) and I sell four copies, the laugh will be on me... :-)

Denise - everything counts! :-)

I can't offer the first for free, because that one is written with the co-author. Would the middle one do the trick?-:), although I think it's worth 4 bucks that my friend Amazon and I charge for it


If you get stuck with 4 sold, I'll buy the 5-th no worries-:), however I hope yours and all the others' sales skyrocket