THE WORLD WAR TWO GROUP discussion

This theme read is on any book or books covering any air battle or campaign of WW2.

I still hold a grudge against the Nazis!

There is good and bad in every race and I don't think there is any love for the Nazi's in the group, however I see a distinction between those fighting for the defence of their country and the depraved actions of fanatics within the armed forces.

Besides we are here to read and discuss good books :)

I am reading:
by Danny S. Parker
for the theme read in April.

Sorting books for our Rotary semi-annual booksale, I came across a very old book that I read while in high school (also many years ago): "I Flew for the Fuhrer" by Heinz Knoke, published in 1953.

TheIron wrote: "Sorting books for our Rotary semi-annual booksale, I came across a very old book that I read while in high school (also many years ago): "I Flew for the Fuhrer" by Heinz Knoke, published in 1953."

Good find!

TheIron wrote: "Sorting books for our Rotary semi-annual booksale, I came across a very old book that I read while in high school (also many years ago): "I Flew for the Fuhrer" by Heinz Knoke, published in 1953."

Nice find, good book as well :)

by Heinz Knoke

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "TheIron wrote: "Sorting books for our Rotary semi-annual booksale, I came across a very old book that I read while in high school (also many years ago): "I Flew for the Fuhrer" by Heinz Knoke, publ..."

I just found this one last weekend as well.

I knew Heinz Knoke quite well, he was a really good guy, funny as hell also.

TheIron wrote: "Sorting books for our Rotary semi-annual booksale, I came across a very old book that I read while in high school (also many years ago): "I Flew for the Fuhrer" by Heinz Knoke, published in 1953."

Read this back in high school a couple times, back when Bantam War Books were really prevalent. Still have my copy, along with 100+ other Bantam War Books.

I read plenty of WWII/aviation/air combat books researching my novel, "The Legend of Little Eagle". And the writing of this story started and ended in very amazing ways:

http://www.florianrochat.com/wp/2015/...

My hero, John Philip Garreau, is a P-51-D fighter pilot. But the bomber crews also attracted my interest:

http://www.florianrochat.com/wp/2015/...

My novel: http://www.florianrochat.com/littleea...

Firestorm Hamburg: The Facts Surrounding the Destruction of a German City 1943

This will be my theme read. Looks like it's either a re-print or an updated version of a book from the early 80's.

Marc wrote: "TheIron wrote: "Sorting books for our Rotary semi-annual booksale, I came across a very old book that I read while in high school (also many years ago): "I Flew for the Fuhrer" by Heinz Knoke, publ..."

Same here that was an excellent series of books.

For the April theme read I'll aim to finish in the Cassell Military Paperbacks series. (I've been on page 55 for a while now, what with too many other interruptions to my time!)

I'm finding the very high proportion of technical detail in the text quite fascinating; though I'm not entirely convinced by some sentences, for example on page 56, something surely missing between 'water' and 'would'?

"Wallis explained that if the angle of incidence exceeded 7 degrees the sphere would not regain the surface after discharge, but if it were less the angle of reflection from the surface of the water would always be less than the angle of incidence. ...." Hmm.

Michael wrote: "I am reading:
by Danny S. Parker
for the theme read in April."

Hope you enjoy it Michael, I thought it was pretty good.

A slightly less traveled topic, I think the air war in China / SE Asia is something I will spend some time on. I enjoyed this :
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1...

And plan to give this a read:
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1...

I "knew" Erik Shilling from many discussion groups back in the 90's before he passed, and he was always a great person to chat with on any flying topic. His book was very enlightening.

Erik wrote: "A slightly less traveled topic, I think the air war in China / SE Asia is something I will spend some time on. I enjoyed this :
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1......"

You may want to try this one as well:

Ding Hao: America's Air War in China, 1937-1945

I am torn between one of my many books on RAF Bomber Command and this new addition to my library for the theme read:

The Last Blitz: Operation Steinbock, the Luftwaffe's Last Blitz on Britain - January to May 1944 by Ron Mackay

Decided to read this one: To Command the Sky: The Battle for Air Superiority Over Germany, 1942-1944 (Smithsonian History of Aviation and Spaceflight

Interesting factoid on the first recorded aerial bombing...in 1849: http://www.findingdulcinea.com/news/o... I did not know of this one.

Interesting link Mike, I don't think I've read about that before, see you do learn something new every day :)

Slim, slim pickings. My library really needs to spread its wings. I've already reviewed The Bombing War by Richard Overy last year: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
All that's left is Bomber Harris' memoirs. However, that requires re-reading Overy's Bomber Command for context, so dips on this duo:
Bomber Command 1939-1945
Bomber Offensive (no cover) by Arthur Travers Harris

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "I am torn between one of my many books on RAF Bomber Command and this new addition to my library for the theme read:



I'd advice to pick one of the many that are already doing time on the shelves, now that there's a theme read to motivate you. The lure of the latest addition will last past April. It's exactly why I've created a "TBR pile at home" shelf in rough order of purchase, to tackle the forgotten ones.

R.e. learning something new every day, I had no idea that Hans Speidel had an older brother, Wilhelm, who was a Luftwaffe General... is pretty good so far. James S. Corum has written some really excellent history over these last several years, and I think this book may be one of his better ones...

Dimitri wrote: "Slim, slim pickings. My library really needs to spread its wings. I've already reviewed The Bombing War by Richard Overy last year: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show......"

Excellent review Dimitri!

My choice is fairly close to home,

A Separate Little War: The Banff Coastal Command Strike Wing Versus the Kriegsmarine and Luftwaffe in Norway September 1944 to May 1945

From To Command the Sky: The Battle for Air Superiority Over Germany, 1942-1944 (Smithsonian History of Aviation and Spaceflight, a short tutorial on tactics for German fighter pilots:

Based on the relative strengths and weaknesses of enemy aircraft, Luftwaffe rules of engagement were fairly simple: never deliberately dogfight with a P-5 1 but dive away and live to fight
another day; never dive from a P-47 but engage and dogfight below 20,000; attack a P-38 anywhere, anytime.

I'll be reading The Kamikaze Hunters: Fighting for the Pacific, 1945 on the Fleet Air Arm's actions in the Pacific.

I've decided to further spice up my Pacific/ Asia choices by adding this too:
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/8...

Air war in Alaska and the Aleutians should make for some interesting reading along with learning about the AVG in my other choice.

Some good books being mentioned for this theme read!

Mike wrote: "From [book:To Command the Sky: The Battle for Air Superi..."

Hi Mike, I ordered this book a couple of weeks ago but it's taking an eternity to arrive from the US! Let me know what you think of it. I've been trying to find books on how air superiority was achieved by the Allies and how this was coordinated with decision-making on the ground, especially in the Western Desert. I've not had much luck finding many books, or perhaps there haven't been many published! From what I've gathered elsewhere, I'm currently of the opinion that Allied air superiority was due to 1) superior manufacturing capabilities (replacing planes faster than they were being destroyed, and at a faster rate than in Axis factories), 2) the American entry into the war which resulted in vast numbers of pilots and planes arriving in fields of battle from 1942 onwards and 3) Axis shortages in fuel supply resulting from their failure to secure oil fields in Russia or the Middle East. Any other answers welcome!

Hi Skylar, this book may interest you:

The Mediterranean Air War: Airpower and Allied Victory in World War II by Robert S. Ehlers, Jr.

To Skylar,

I read that book few years back when I wrote an article. This book is good, especially on how Allied force tried to overcome the early rachnical and mental issues to get things together.

There are other books regarding bombing campaign in WW2 that I felt good, either read or browsed few chapters and could share.

Flying to the Limit is a collection of flight reports from various US, British and Luftwaffe fighters. This came from official reports, rathen than Duel in the Sky type personal experience.

If you like ti kmow how the technical info British has in the early stage of the war regarding some fighters, this is a good source.

Cobrachen - yes please let me know your recommendations!
Mike - thanks for the suggestion, looks like a great book. I just looked it up and the price is a bit prohibitive unfortunately (cheapest edition £30!) ...

Sorry I meant you Rick!

Skylar wrote: "Sorry I meant you Rick!"

That's OK :)

Instruments of Darkness: The History of Electronic Warfare, 1939-1945

This book is not talking about air battles, bombing or fighters at all. However, it introduced what we know today that happened in WW2: Electronic Warfare

Dr. Price has many good books and I am a big fan of his works. The copy I have is the updated, republishef version. It talked about the navigation device uwed by botj Birtish and Luftwaffe to bomb the target, especially at night. How the radar had been used, then how either side wanted to jamm it, what is the affect to the ground and airborne radar to intercept bombers or fighters. A lot of things we heard from modern air warfare, like during th Desert Storm, you could find the root in this book. You could find out how the Electronic Warfare has been shaped sine WW2.

Nice written, not much technical details if you don't like just numbers.

Skylar wrote: "Hi Mike, I ordered this book a couple of weeks ago but it's taking an eternity to arrive from the US! Let me know what you think of it...."

Hi Skylar, the wait for a book in the mail can seem to stretch on..... I think you will find the book informative, if a little textbookish. He will cover the development of air doctrine from WWI to 1940. Then actual wartime experience drives the evolving strategy process. There aren't that many books I'm aware of that concentrate on gaining air superiority as a goal so this book is valuable for the focus on that.

Cobrachen wrote: "Flying to the Limit is a collection of flight reports from various US, British and Luftwaffe fighters. This came from official reports, rathen than Duel in the Sky type personal experience.

If yo..."

Reminds me of a former colleague who, in his previous job, read an archive of flight tests. One of the most succinct inter-war reports read, 'Access to this aircraft is very difficult. It should be made impossible.'

I also have fond memories of a (now lost) copy of What Were They Like to Fly?.

@Skylar I think the 3 reasons given for the success of the Allies are correct in a general sense, though the last item probably had the greatest impact.

Germany really had little problems producing aircraft... but fuel was a whole other matter. The fuel situation limited pilot training, effectively ended bomber missions to any degree, and kept Germany from being able to mass enough aircraft in a location to achieve local superiority.

For North Africa, the inability to control the seas left the Axis with no ability to supply the ground forces and aircraft supporting them with adequate fuel and weapons.

Additionally, the D-Day landings allowed short range fighters to now be able to be active over Europe, bringing large numbers of aircraft that were essentially defensive assets only now into play as offensive assets on the mainland.

My bottom line, fuel was the key. Once the Allies pressured this element, the Germans were doomed in their efforts to maintain control of their skies.

Erik wrote: "@Skylar I think the 3 reasons given for the success of the Allies are correct in a general sense, though the last item probably had the greatest impact.

Germany really had little problems produci..."

Thanks for that Erik. Re. the German synthetic fuel industry (counting for over half of Germany's total oil production during the war): I read that production in fact doubled between 1940 and 1943 from 72,000 to 124,000 barrels per day (Yergin p327, The Prize). It wasn't until 1944 that the Allied modified their strategic bombing campaign to target this industry. So … was it that the total fuel output was insufficient or was it really the weak naval supply lines?

Can anyone recommend a good book on how the Allies established naval superiority in the Mediterranean? I gather this was achieved through Ultra decrypts and the Axis failure to recognise 1) the weakness of air power in Malta and 2) how vulnerable Malta was to a land invasion?

Hi Skylar, the wait for a book in the mai..."

Thanks for the summary Mike. I look forward to reading it; I ordered it almost a month ago!

Hi Skylar, try this book:
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...

I think there are some books on the Malta air contribution to isolating North Africa from supplies. I'll see what I can find.

As for fuel, yes the synthetic plants did increase outputs, but this was a small portion of that the Luftwaffe and Wehrmacht needed. The war in the Atlantic also used up significant fuel resources. Post war surveys found that the allied bombing efforts were quite ineffective until they started going after Germany's oil industry.

I think Germany basically ran its war efforts primarily on captured fuel stocks until 1942, and from there it was left trying to get improvements in efficiency, narrowing the war focus to primarily the Eastern Front, and usage of better synthetic fuel making.

The Allies did not put real pressure on German industry until late 1943, and by then the war was basically decided. Interestingly enough, the German war machine was able to keep weapon production going right up until the last month or 2 of the war. The US Strategic Bombing Command's post war assessments are a great read on this topic.

Aces of the Republic of China Air Force



If you have read few books about air warfare in WW2, 8th Air Force, Luftwaffe, Spitfire, North Africa, Midway Island and many other battles are well known. You may also heard Flying Tiger, those volunteers to fight in Burma. But what about those who fight with Flying Tiger? Have you ever heard of the stories of those pilots and their battles? Probably not.

In the past, there were very few books that published in English covered the history regarding air combat between Republic of China Air Force and Japan from 1937 to 1945. This air force is not the one in China now, which is the one more of your governments love to kiss :) (sorry, no offense). That air force is called PLAAF and the first war they fought was in Korea against Allied force. Anyway, last year, Aces of the Republic of China Air Force was published by Osprey and was the first book that dedicated to the brave pilots who fought Japan Army and Navy air force when no countries would like to support and sale equipment to help. Considering Chinese central government only established the Air Force in 1932 and Japan has started way ahead and the most well trained and modernized air power in Asia, China Air Force was in a very difficult battle to fight a extremely powerful enemy with less than ideal air planes and support system.

I personally knew the author and he is a well known and respected author in Chinese language publication world. He has interviewed many pilots that fought the war from both sides, he also went to the archives of Japanese government to do his own research. This is a long over due book to tell the history that never went to the spot light when people talks about air warfare in WW2.

Hopefully you will enjoy the book and the stories.

Nice recommendation Cobrachen, thanks! Osprey always seems to do a good job with these specialist books. They rarely disappoint me.

I might change my mind about which book to read for this theme read, this is the current contender:

Whispering Death: Australian Airmen in the Pacific War by Mark D. Johnston

@Rick - I splashed out on The Mediterranean Air War :-)
@Cobrachen - thank you for your suggestions!
@Erik - I ordered the book on the naval war in the Med and look forward to anything else you can recommend.

Hi Skylar, you seem to be having fun :)

Nice book Rick! I'd also recommend a book by Martin Caiden :
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...

It has some quality reading on the early air war there in SE Asia/ Java/ South Pacific. Australians included!