fiction files redux discussion

Dan and I are going to read "The Fledgling." Octavia Butler has been recommended to me by several friends, including our own Patty. Dan has already made some serious headway into this novel, so we should be able to get some great comments soon about the first third of the novel.

I am not going to reread the book, but I look forward to the discussion! :D

Thank you for the heads up. I think I'll give it a shot.

So this one reads pretty quickly, I've already passed the 150 page mark.

I will say that I have read almost no other novels containing vampires, but know enough to say that they are being represented differently then they typically are. How do you think this portrayal compares to other depictions?

I do find that I like the idea of the main character having amnesia, and learning about her life and race as we do.

I was a bit apprehensive in Chapter One. The vague details of her amnesia kept me at arms length; but the unique details in Chapter Two have definitely drawn me in. I don't normally react chapter by chapter but so much rides on this style.

How're things going with this one? I finished it last week and have somethings to say about it more generally, but I don't want to spoil anything.

Hugh, did you find that after the second chapter that you were still drawn in? Or did it continue to vary? I almost feel like the first chapter is purposefully keeping you at arms length.

Dan,

I'm about halfway through and must admit the amnesia thing has worn a bit thin for me. She places so much weight on it, having to explain every fact ("she only knew that because Wright had told her")... I'm hoping there is a big payoff.

What I'm finding fascinating is how the author is purposely playing with the taboo here, making her so physically young but sexually active. Same goes for this sense of the eroticism (fetishism?) of the bite.

I need to get through the rest to fairly speak to what seem like significant signs and metaphors: the skewed familial connections, the amnesia, the dependencies (they call them "addictions"). I get the sense she is making social commentary here but at present I'm too dense to get it.

I'm glad you suggested this though. I've not read any of her work before and am intrigued by her world-building.

Hello, guys. Very interesting comments. I am also about half done.

This is my first novel that includes vampires of any kind, so I don't know how bloodthirsty and bloodlust are typically done. The way she leans on the lust doesn't feel incredibly original to me.

The overlap of sexuality and children has ruined novels for me in the past. It is the biggest reason I absolutely hated the commercial novel "The Kite Runner." The fact that Butler established it from the beginning as a baseline reality of the novel helped, versus using it as a shocking jolt for sensationalism.

The theme of rebirth without complete detachment from prior experiences is exciting.

I'm looking forward to finishing the novel and reading more of the comments in the Octavia Butler thread.

First of all credit for the group read should go out to Elizabeth. She kicked this whole thing off by tagging me in a FB post.

I agree Hugh, I think both the young physical appearance, and the eroticism of the bite. I like the idea of those who are bit becoming part of a symbiotic relationship. Both decisions adds a complexity that I hadn't expected.

It's also interesting to consider that becoming a symbiont, is someone choosing to become an addict and that withdrawal from the bite would very likely lead to death. Luckily there are some upsides.

You are right Elizabeth about "The theme of rebirth without complete detachment from prior experiences is exciting." I'm interested to see you how both think this plays out.

Elizabeth and Dan: Have either of you read any other Octavia Butler? I'm curious how this stacks up with her other novels, since it seems a little less science fiction and more horror/fantasy?

I have not read anything else yet, but I have heard that this is her one and only Vampire book and is a bit of an outlier. Patty would be best to weigh in on this. I believe she has read a lot of Butler.

Neil and Robert have also read a lot of Butler! I still have 1 trilogy to read, the first book of which is next to my bed and waiting for me.

None of her other stories/novels involve vampires. There is a pretty wide variety - Kindred is more historical/time-travelly, there are speculative novels & shorts, and there is also crazy space/alien/future stuff. She pretty much runs the gambit of sci-fi.

Some of the themes in Fledgling reoccur in a lot of her other works, especially the themes of inter/co-dependence, questions & ethical issues surrounding pleasure, and also frequently things to do with sustainability of life (although I don't remember that being a strong theme in Fledgling, please remind me!). Those are common themes that stand out to me, at least.

Patty: Would love to hear your thoughts on how this fits into Butler's other work (well, and what you thought of it.)

Elizabeth: You bring up and interesting point of the concept of Reincarnation, being em-bodied without recalling a previous life.

Fledgling was the second of her works that I read, the first was a short story. I must have liked it well enough (since I continued to seek out her work), but it isn't my favorite. I also read another vampire story around the same time (Carlos Fuentes's Vlad), which sort of made Fledgling more interesting to me, too.

I love her work as a whole. As to how this fits in, I'm not sure what you mean, but maybe you hadn't seen my comment above about themes that are common to a lot of her work? I think she had a very interesting project. For a nice sampling of her other sci-fi sub genres, I would recommend the short story collection "Bloodchild and other stories".

Thanks for the recommendation on the short story collection. I'm wondering if I might like her work better in a more condensed, short story form. (There seems to be a lot of filler in this book, not least the memory thing... but that's another topic.) I'm fascinated by the issues of race in this relative to the Ina/human dynamic -- and there's some pretty on-the-nose comparisons during the trial when Shori is told: "You, more than anyone, must show that you can follow our ways. You must not give the people who have decided to be your enemies any advantage. You must seem more Ina than they."

Elizabeth: have you finished? Don't want to post any spoilers.

I was hoping to like this book more -- and am definitely going to check out the short stories. I've read other works of science fiction or mystery that have a great concept but feel overstuffed with details.

That said, I know some folks really enjoy things like the genealogical details that were provided at length. But where I had to put the book down before proceeding was this particular passage:

They cooked hamburger sandwiches for themselves and one for Victor Colon. They had found loaves of multigrain bread, hamburger meat, and bags of French fries in the freezer, and had put the meat and bread in the lower part of the refrigerator to thaw. Now, they fried the meat and the potatoes in cast-iron pans on the stove. There was salt and pepper, mustard and catsup, and a pickle relish in the cupboard but, of course, no fresh vegetables. At some point were were going to have to find a supermarket.

I have enjoyed philosophical asides in some novels and have even reread the entire Eschaton scene in Infinite Jest every time I've reread the book, but this had to be the first time I've paused for a defrosting of meat. Passages like this and the double-digit number of times we were told that Shori had no memory, detracted from my deeper fascination with the concept she was working with.

I agree with you on that Hugh. some of the repetition made the novel feel like it was directed towards a younger reading audience. I remember quite often thinking, "I know this already."

Despite my reservations of starting with Butler's vampire novel, and despite the novel's short comings I am still interested in reading more of Butler's work.