The Readers Review: Literature from 1714 to 1910 discussion

From what I've read (and with no spoilers), the novel is a combination of a psychological thriller and mystery. And to me, it has a element of serious gothic thrown in without the cheesy theatrics of the 18th century gothic novels.

Also, there are a lot of oppositional elements in the novels. For example, there are all these images of religion, which is supposed to be pure, but there are "evil" aspects of life: Jasper is addicted to opium and becomes violent under its influence, and we have the Deputy and the other boys "stoning" Durdles and each other. Edwin and Rosa Bud seems completely different - he likes engineering and history and culture, and she appears only interested in shallow things (her sweet cakes). Edwin seems lighthearted, but Jasper appears darker and obviously unhappy in life.

One, what did you take from the character of John Jasper? Again, he is obviously unhappy in his life and is addicted to opium. He describes his workplace as cold and dank and doesn't appear to take joy from his music. But, he does seem to like his nephew, Edwin Drood, and seems a bit happier in his presence.

Two, Edwin Drood appears to be a likable young man, and obviously a mystery is going to develop around his character. How do you read his relationship with Rosa Bud? (Such an odd name...). To me, Edwin seems as if he wants to marry her. He says that even if their parents didn't thrown them together, he would want to marry Rosa Bud.

Three, but Rosa Bud doesn't seems to want to marry her. At times, she seems silly and shallow, one of those typical Dickens' female characters who aren't based in reality. But, when she weeps about marrying Edwin, she becomes less silly and far more real.

Four, the town of Cloisterham. The name says it all. Between the name and the place where Rosa Bud goes to school - the old Nun's quarters - Dickens has set up a place that is very isolated and insular.

Five, the gothic comes in again - for me - with Durdles. The burials and the dead bodies.

I thought that opening inside an opium den must have seemed a bold choice. The first few paragraphs give the impression that Dickens is beginning with his usual setting chapter, then clarifies itself as the hazy impressions of Jasper. A very dark way to begin with both dark humor and violence to set the stage.

Renee wrote: "I thought that opening inside an opium den must have seemed a bold choice. The first few paragraphs give the impression that Dickens is beginning with his usual setting chapter, then clarifies itse..."

Renee, I completely agree about the opening. It sets the tone of the novel and what is to come.

Jasper seems to be fascinated by the crypt. The questions he asked Durdles about how he finds buried hidden bodies are creepy. Jasper is obviously unhappy and a drug addict. I noticed that Rosa was uneasy when Edwin mentioned his uncle's name.
As usual, many of the characters have wonderful names--Durdles, Crisparkle, Sapsea. The name Edwin Drood has a sinister ring to it, considering its owner is young and charming.
Dickens' use of language is masterful. There are so many interesting descriptions and phrases:
--the description of Cloisterham in Chapter 3 where he says "the Cloisterham children grow small salad in the dust of abbots and abbesses, and make dirt-pies of nuns and friars
--the description of Mr. Sapsea in Chapter 4 which has these words "He possesses the great qualities of being portentous and dull
-- in Chapter 5 Durdles has just been stoned by the wild boy Deputy and
Jasper "crosses to the iron railing where the Stony (and stoned) One is profoundly meditiating."

And many more. As for Rosa Bud, she more than likely would have preferred not to be betrothed to anyone without her consent first.

I particularly enjoyed the description of the quietness of the town. It seemed to bring up the feeling of the silence of the grave or cemetary

The opening is an example of where I find Dickens "modern" in using stream-of-consciousness, prefiguring James Joyce. He did the same thing when Eugene in OMF had been awake all night.

The early engagement is the same setup we saw in Our Mutual Friend. and seems to be received as badly by the girl in this case.

I've skipped to this empty comment box, without reading the above, to say that I've downloaded Drood and plan to return here.

Robin wrote: "The opening is an example of where I find Dickens "modern" in using stream-of-consciousness, prefiguring James Joyce. He did the same thing when Eugene in OMF had been awake all night.

The early ..."

When I read it the first time, I didn't think of it that way - I was just caught up in the narrative and thinking about how Dickens to do something very different to begin the novel - but you are right: it is a form of stream of conscious.

BTW - I haven't posted background materials or other information that I've found when researching because most of them contain spoilers. Once we get near the end of the novel, I will post that information.

I have already read up to chapter 4 and hope to finish chapter 5 tomorrow or at the very latest on Friday. Then I will post my comments.

It's bizarre, but I found the opening scene so incredibly un-Dickens that I actually wondered whether he'd written it at all...

He was trying something completely new. It's too bad he didn't get to finish; I'm sure it would have been spectacular!

The beginning of Bleak House is also unusual, with lots of partial sentences about the fog in London. But the opium den is rather exotic for Dickens.

As usual, the first chapters introduce diverse characters, some of whom are already linked and some not, and it takes a bit of effort to keep everyone straight.

A silly comment - every time I read Rosa Bud's name, I think of Citizen Kane and Rosebud. :-)

Robin - it is always hard to keep the characters straight in a Dickens' novel and The Mystery of Edwin Drood is no exception. And at first, you don't know if the person is going to be a major or minor character so you have to track them all.

What a strange, rather dark, and rather modern beginning!
I find it interesting that Dickens chose the addiction to opium as one one of his themes in this novel. Strangely, when I think of opium in literature of our group's period I always have to think of Sherlock Holmes. This topic has never come up in any of the other novels by Dickens, not even by mentioning it.
I was a little surprised about the writing style. It seems so different, and to me maybe less poetic, less Victorian. However, we have had such passages in his other novels, too, and he still found his way.
I also had to think of the arranged marriage in OMF when reading of Edwin Drood and Rosa. Rosa seems another incarnation of Dickens's female stereotype. But she is still young and has a chance to grow.
The names are funny as usual. I liked Sapsea and Stony Druddles the most.
What did you think of the "bundle" of a child throwing stones in chapter 5? I wonder whether Dickens will make something out of this.
Druddles and his crypts reminded me of Mr. Venus and his bones and taxidermic curiosities. It seems a little creepy and mysterious or is he nothing else but a "treasure hunter" among old graves? I wonder whether Jasper is interested in it for that reason.
And then there must be some mystery behind Edwin Drood as the title suggests. I wonder whether this has anything to do with the relationship to Jasper. Edwin must be about 20 years old, as his coming of age is mentioned to come soon. At the same time Jasper, his uncle, seems to be in his mid-twenties. So there might be a lot around the relationship of these two to each other and maybe to Rosa. I am just guessing though.

I really like Durdles. He's creepy yet comic which I find extraordinary.

Jasper and Edwin are presented very positively in their introductory chapter, over dinner, and yet we learn of Jack's opium addiction (and that he clearly struggles with either the pain that caused him to start taking it, or withdrawal effects from the opium) and possibly (it was only a hint to me) that Jasper might also have feelings for Rosa Bud, who is of course his beloved nephew's fiancee. Then when we meet Rosa, I must confess to finding her irritatingly contrary and childish, which seems to be a favourite sort of Dickensian heroine-think Dora from DC, Bella from OMF.

Funniest part of this section? Mr Sapsea's composition for the tombstone of the late Mrs Sapsea.

I realize my 21st century sensibilities may be getting in the way here, but I find myself put off by Edwin's nickname for Rosa, "Pussy". Every time I come to the word, I'm taken aback. I wonder when the word started being used in a vulgar way, and if this was a double entendre for Dickens. One of the reasons I enjoy 19th century literature is because I prefer romance to sex, and manners to coarseness. I'd hate to think that Dickens was using the word in a "nudge, nudge, wink, wink" sort of way, rather than a genuine term of endearment.

I laughed out loud at this passage:

It is the custom of that excellent lady when these visits occur, to appear every three minutes, either in her own person or in that of Mrs. Tisher, and lay an offering on the shrine of Propriety by affecting to look for some desiderated article. On the present occasion Miss Twinkleton, gracefully gliding in and out, says in passing: 'How do you do, Mr. Drood? Very glad indeed to have the pleasure. Pray excuse me. Tweezers. Thank you!'

Who else but Dickens could come up with a phrase like "lay an offering on the shrine of Propriety"? :-)

And Lynnm - I thought of Citizen Kane, too.

I'm guessing it just had the "cat" meaning at that time, at least in common usage. Maybe Edwin called her that because she is small and kind of childish (maybe has some catlike features?).

Frances wrote: "Jasper and Edwin are presented very positively in their introductory chapter, over dinner, and yet we learn of Jack's opium addiction (and that he clearly struggles with either the pain that caused..."

That reminded me of the tombstone epitates in Pickwick Papers

Mary Lou wrote: "I realize my 21st century sensibilities may be getting in the way here, but I find myself put off by Edwin's nickname for Rosa, "Pussy". Every time I come to the word, I'm taken aback. I wonder whe..."

I had the same reaction, but I remember that in E. Nesbitt's children's book Five Children and It, written in 1902, one of the girls has the nickname Pussy. (another example is in Swallows and Amazons from 1930, one girl has the name Titty, maybe short for Letiicia)

Robin wrote: " I remember that in E. Nesbitt's children's book Five Children and It, written in 1902, one of the girls has the nickname Pussy. (another example is in Swallows and Amazons from 1930, one girl has the name Titty, maybe short for Letiicia) "

That makes me feel better, Robin, as far as Pussy goes. But I had to laugh about Titty! My mother, sister, and daughter were/are all named Letitia, which is a family name going back eight generations to 1732. Of all the variations that have been used over the centuries, I don't think any of them were called Titty! My mom went by Tish, my sister by Tishie, my great aunt used - and my daughter uses - their middle names. I'll call my daughter Titty the next time I see her and watch her reaction. Or maybe not -- if I tease her too much, there may never be a ninth Letitia! :-)

Pussy bothers me as well but I know that the nicknames used back then were far different and some have taken on a far different meaning than today. And I'm getting a kick out of Titty too!!!

Hedi wrote: "What a strange, rather dark, and rather modern beginning!
I find it interesting that Dickens chose the addiction to opium as one one of his themes in this novel. Strangely, when I think of opium in..."

Hedi - Yes, the reference to opium does bring Sherlock Holmes to mind.

Lynnm wrote: "Pussy bothers me as well but I know that the nicknames used back then were far different and some have taken on a far different meaning than today. And I'm getting a kick out of Titty too!!!"

Of course a common name in English novels of the 19th century was Fanny, which we wouldn't use today either!

Mary Lou: The problem with some names is the transformation of them on the playground. Did your daughter (or sister or mother) never run across the titty version, then?

Having said that, there is great respect in using family names and I hope your daughter or someone in her generation will pass it on to the 8th.

Jon wrote: "Mary Lou: The problem with some names is the transformation of them on the playground. Did your daughter (or sister or mother) never run across the titty version, then?"

I talked to my daughter tonight and told her about this discussion. She said there were two boys in her freshman dorm (she's 27 now) who called her "Le Tits" all year. They were the same classy guys who insisted on drawing a certain part of the male anatomy on everyone's white boards. Kids are fun, aren't they? :-)