All About Books discussion

Here's where we can discuss our May Group Fiction Read.

Does anyone have a copy of this yet? I'm hoping to borrow from my library...

I have my copy and ready to read!

I have a copy and I'm ready too. :)

My copy is sitting on my GoodReads table, waiting impatiently :-)

I've an iBooks copy, looking forward to this.

I have a hold at the library - placed a week ago - but not in yet.

I have it. Ready to go.

I have the Penguin Classic, and the print is not small.

I am opting not to reread this, since while it is exquisitely written, I hated it, much to the chagrin of the IRL friend who raved about it and recommended it to me.

Shirley wrote: "Here's where we can discuss our May Group Fiction Read.

Does anyone have a copy of this yet? I'm hoping to borrow from my library..."

I have to find a copy at the library but it shouldn't be a problem.

I sprang for a used paperback copy. $4 including the shipping, but not the state tax.

Hattie,

I started reading it this morning, and the print immediately began shrinking.

Have finished the first section "Grass Valley". I am hooked already.

I have my copy too. I'm on page 55 and really enjoying it so far.

I've just started this, and have finished the first chapter of 'Grass Valley'.

I heard it on audio 3 years ago. Some of it seems familiar, but I have forgotten a lot of the detail. I think it is extremely well written.

I've finished the Grass Valley section and am enjoying it a lot. I'm getting much more out of it second time round.

Fascinating that it's set so soon after the Transcontinental railway was completed. I'm always surprised by how comparatively recently the west of the US was settled.

Re Oliver (view spoiler)[ I'm a bit disappointed with Suzanna for almost making excuses for him to her friends. She seems a bit ashamed of him to them, I would expect her to be a bit more loyal to him so early on in their marriage. (hide spoiler)]

Finished it today. Terrific read.

I agree, Gill. It really is surprising how far we have come from the settling of the West, but it hasn't been that long ago.

I love the narrator, and I think his physical dilemmas add a bemusing quality to the narrative. He has wonderful curmudgeonly opinions of the modern era, tho' he is not altogether hostile towards the "new age"... even tho' he is locked into his point of view. Literally.

American history, particularly pioneering and women in the early West, are a few of my favorite things. I don't want to read this fast, but it is hard not to gobble it up. I am really enjoying this journey.

I've found the book; I may join in next week, when I've finished Zola!

Janice(JG) wrote: "I love the narrator, and I think his physical dilemmas add a bemusing quality to the narrative. He has wonderful curmudgeonly opinions of the modern era, tho' he is not altogether hostile towards t..."

I agree, the narrator is wonderfully crafted. I read this slowly and found myself back-tracking to savor some of the thoughts and language. Excited to discuss it when you guys are ready.

Curmudgeon describes Lyman nicely, I think. This is the kind of fiction, the slow pace and lack of action, I would have had difficultly reading when younger, but find enjoyable now. Stegner moves slowly along, and then Wham! he hits me with a finely constructed sentence of two that I must reread. My interests have broadened.

When I read this book first time round, I came across an article that suggested that Stegner may have 'over-relied' on some diaries?letters? that he used in his research.

I can't find the article again; has anyone else seen it?

Yes, I was reading that there was some controversy over his using materials a friend had furnished regarding some of the friend's relatives. All I can say is he sure knew what to do with the base if he was working from a base.

Gill wrote: "When I read this book first time round, I came across an article that suggested that Stegner may have 'over-relied' on some diaries?letters? that he used in his research.

I can't find the article..."

In the book edition I have there is an introduction that goes into whose letters he used (Mary Hallock Foote) and his journey through the writing process. It's really informative. The edition I'm reading is not on Goodreads, but I purchased it last month on Amazon, so you should be able to get the book edition there.

Janice(JG) wrote: "I love the narrator, and I think his physical dilemmas add a bemusing quality to the narrative. He has wonderful curmudgeonly opinions of the modern era, tho' he is not altogether hostile towards t..."

I couldn't agree more! I love Stegner's writing style, the way it flows it slows down time for me and brings me back to a bygone era.

I love western history and Colorado history (I live in Denver) and find myself staying up late at night because I can't put this book down. It makes for long sleeping days at work, but it's worth it!

My copy arrived at the library - I won't be able to start right away but I hope to soon!

Greg wrote: "My copy arrived at the library - I won't be able to start right away but I hope to soon!"

We'll read together then! I won't start it before tuesday next week!

Just finished New Almaden. Very much enjoying this.

What do others feel about the narrator's level of hatred of his own appearance/disabilities?

Understandable, I think. He is depressed and humiliated. He has a serious disease and knows, because of his age, he will not get better, only worse. He can no longer take care of himself, relying on a woman -- a friend not a family member -- for basic needs such as bathing and cleaning. This jaunt down memory lane may prove educational and fulfilling, but is also a means of escape.

Gill wrote: "Just finished New Almaden. Very much enjoying this.

What do others feel about the narrator's level of hatred of his own appearance/disabilities?"

Yes, like Xan said. I also think he is a terribly self-conscious old school male... he is from another era and his masculinity has been severely compromised with this illness. He has no weapons to resist change.

I think he is mulling over the differences between past, present (these new-fangled ideals of the 60s/70s), and the future. I really liked his discussion about the Doppler effect and how he sits locked in his chair experiencing it as he explores his grandmother's life.

Ironically, he is also experiencing it in his relationship with Ada's new-age daughter Shelley. Her brashness and boldness is in complete contrast to Susan's gentility. I liked this comment: "I have no idea, either, whether Thomas was courting Susan, or Augusta, or both, or neither. I doubt that any of them knew. If you are genteel enough, that sort of imprecision is possible."

That sort of genteel behavior has vanished, and I think he is struggling with whether or not that is a good thing or a bad thing.

Xan and JG, I agree. He isn't quite old enough to feel that it is fair for him to be confined to the chair and have his physical life over. He is trying to understand himself, his choices, his life, as much as he is trying to understand his grandmother.

Two things are impressing me in reading this book. One is how very big and very different my country is. We are all Americans, but our regionalisms are distinct. My BFF from Boston told me in no uncertain terms that Pennsylvania born me was not a Yankee no matter what the Secessionists called the supporters of the Union. So there! Oooo k.

The second is that I am now Lyman's age trying to get used to Millilenials, having been a New Ager back then. hmm.

Yes, it is a huge country with regions of vastly differing geography. How much does physiography (environment) reflect our attitudes and politics? Does it play a role in culture?

Look at how Susan changes. Yes, she is married, and that is a change in itself, but by moving out west she is literally leaving her previous life behind. Again and again geography -- the mountains, the weather, the differences between west and east -- occupy her mind. And then there are the people. How does all this affect her idea of gentility, which back east appeared to matter greatly?

It's interesting to read all your comments about the hugeness of the US. I've only visited a few places there, but have a bit of a sense of the differences.

The U.K. Is a much smaller country by comparison, but there is a huge difference here between Northerners and Southerners. I think some people in the south, away from London, would say the difference is between London and the rest of the country.

Portia wrote: "Two things are impressing me in reading this book. One is how very big and very different my country is. We are all Americans, but our regionalisms are distinct. My BFF from Boston told me in no un..."

Made me laugh. I moved from Georgia to Maryland and Marylanders told me they were Southerners. I laughed. No way. Northerners to me and very different than the people of Georgia. After 35 years, I still consider myself a Georgia girl and there are some very Southern things in me that have never changed.

So, how much of who we are (or think we should be) is implanted in us in our earliest years? Susan handles the change of living out west better than most would, and yet it is the idea that she is not this person, that there is another person who she really is who should still be living back east and being what that society expects, that keeps her an arm's distance from everyone. Her love for Augusta is a blessing for her life (someone to rely on, someone who cares, someone she can trust and to whom she can tell everything) but that love is also a curse, because Augusta is the main reason Susan can never commit herself to being contented in the life she has chosen. She is always thinking of going back East and being with Augusta again and part of that world.

Sara wrote: " but that love is also a curse, because Augusta is the main reason Susan can never commit herself to being contented in the life she has chosen. She is always thinking of going back East and being with Augusta again and part of that world..."

I like this insight. I've been thinking about Augusta's role in this story, and she seems to be the part of Susan who yearns for the easier path of wealth and standing... the fairy tale life. The other half of Susan appreciates the honesty of her husband and of the raw and wild, uncivilized & undomesticated & unsophisticated & unpredictable, country of the West.

Susan struggles with these internal opposites (heart & head?) through most of the book, tho' I have not made it to the end yet, so I don't know which one wins... or if either one wins. How sad if she ends her life never coming to terms with what she really wants.

Janice(JG) wrote: "Sara wrote: " but that love is also a curse, because Augusta is the main reason Susan can never commit herself to being contented in the life she has chosen. She is always thinking of going back Ea..."

Exactly. I love the way you phrased that (heart and head) or perhaps (reality and dream).

My library copy is now ready to collect so hopefully will start this next week sometime.

The more I think about it, the more I see many opposites that come into play here. There is an East - West dichotomy as Augusta & Thomas represent eastern (and European) culture, while Oliver and Frank represent the West, and western culture. Which also means a tug of war between the old, established, traditional world view and the new, pioneering, changing world view.

There really is a great difference between people's behaviors and attitudes east of the Mississippi river and those west of the Mississippi river. The Gateway Arch in St. Louis, sitting on the west bank of the Mississippi river, has been called the "symbol of American optimism." That could sum up Oliver's attitude and behavior in a nutshell, while Susan so often displays the skepticism and conservatism of tradition and the established status quo of the civilized and genteel eastern culture. Here is a battle between the old and the new.

I love how Stegner is layering his story.

I'm halfway through, and there's been the first mention of Agnes. Stegner places it well in terms of anticipation of whatever will happen involving her.

Janice and others, I'm finding the discussion here about East and West fascinating. I guess my perspective has been about people who emigrated from Europe, to wherever in the US. I've not really considered the journey from East to West.

The more I read this the more I love it! It's biography, history, and psychology all rolled into one eloquently written book. Lyman Ward looses himself in writing about his Grandmother, not only to forget about his troubles, but also to understand himself better. To find strength, or answers, in how to deal with what life has thrown his way.

Susan is a product of her environment; she is genteel, civilized, and educated. This is how she sees herself. As her time in the west increases, she starts to see herself differently and is afraid of losing her identity. Where she finds her strength is one of the reasons, I believe, that Lyman is writing a book about her life. Having gone through profound changes in his life, he is searching for answers, for strength in how to carry on when one loses their sense of self.

Gill wrote: "Janice and others, I'm finding the discussion here about East and West fascinating. I guess my perspective has been about people who emigrated from Europe, to wherever in the US. I've not really considered the journey from East to West..."

I can see how this could be obscure if you've never really spent time in the U.S. Our westward migration is a huge American ethos. I would venture to say that the two most important, pivotal, moments in American history were the Civil War and the westward migration, which was a byproduct of the Civil War and the Homestead Act.

Stegner is called "the Dean of Western Writers" according to Wikipedia, which explains his lyrical descriptions of the mountains and the deserts, prairies and plains, of the west, even when the dust and the primitive and loneliness overwhelm the immigrants. This book got him the Pulitzer Prize, and The Spectator Bird earned him the National Book Award, so I think I will put that on my wish/want list.

Janice(JG) wrote: "The more I think about it, the more I see many opposites that come into play here. There is an East - West dichotomy as Augusta & Thomas represent eastern (and European) culture, while Oliver and F..."

I think you may mean "genteel" rather than "gentile", yes?

Gill wrote: "I'm halfway through, and there's been the first mention of Agnes. Stegner places it well in terms of anticipation of whatever will happen involving her.

Janice and others, I'm finding the discussi..."

Gil, I found this book moving and enlightening Where I Was From. My Eastern European family settled in Pennsylvania and I only "emigrated" from Pennsylvania to Virginia, so I never considered the "Second Crossing" that Didion portrays so beautifully until I read her book.

Portia wrote: "I think you may mean "genteel" rather than "gentile", yes?,..."

Ha! Yes, a case of fingers moving faster than my brain. Thanks for the proof read, I'll fix that. : )

Just deleted my post, better luck second time!
Interesting, JG and Portia.

One of the things that I've been thinking these last few months, primarily stimulated by the novels that I've been reading (Trollope and Zola), is how much difference the development of the railways made to people's lives.

In the case of the US, I guess it means that people who went to the west still retained their links with the east, I wonder whether this made it easier/more difficult/had other effects in terms of the ability to settle in the new area?

With emigrants from Europe, it was unusual for them either to return to the place that they started from or to see the people that they left behind ever again. This must've had a big impact on how they settled into the new place.

I intend to read soonBlood, Iron & Gold: How the Railways Transformed the World.

Re Stegner, I've also read Crossing to Safety, which is now one of my read and read again books.

Like many immigrants who came to America from Europe, the decision to go West was a decision that severed all ties for most. The trains were a god-send in linking both information and contact, but few could afford trips back and forth. Letters were the primary source of contact and there were many, many illiterates who would have needed someone else to write for them.

Stegner's perceptive understanding of people and their behavior is part of what makes this book such a pleasure to read. I love how he has the narrator trying to describe Shelly's appearance and expressions, and each time it seems he is affronted and intrigued simultaneously.

One instance (toward the end of the book, but it's not a spoiler) that is a wonderful example of Stegner's ability to paint the portrait of any given moment for a character would be,

"She knew who the woman was. So did Ed, in the next chair with a beer can between his feet. His eyes canted upward and sideward, he leaned and dropped his [cigarette] butt with a hiss into the can -- a steady man getting his hands free in anticipation of trouble."

I love that picture, and I know exactly what it looked like, and what Stegner meant by it.

Janice(JG) wrote: "Stegner's perceptive understanding of people and their behavior is part of what makes this book such a pleasure to read. I love how he has the narrator trying to describe Shelly's appearance and ex..."
Isn't he always so compelling. He fashions characters who are complex and realistic. Shelly is, herself, a magnificent character, not a major role but one that is unforgettable.

I just checked out the book and will begin reading it soon. I look forward to reading the previous comments and then maybe adding in some of my own.