Black Coffee discussion

This month we are reading the Narrative of Sojourner Truth! I'm kind of excited, her "Ain't I A Woman" speech is one of my favorites. :) Who will be reading along?

I'm in! Already read a few chapters. It's a quick read.

I hope to join. I'm really curious about Sojourner Truth esp. after learning that the "Ain't I a Woman" speech was edited by white people who thought it should have more dialect-ish appeal vs. how Truth actually spoke.

poingu wrote: "I hope to join. I'm really curious about Sojourner Truth esp. after learning that the "Ain't I a Woman" speech was edited by white people who thought it should have more dialect-ish appeal vs. how ..."

Oh really? Is there any way to find out how she actually spoke?

Anastasia wrote: "Oh really? Is there any way to find out how she actually spoke? "

I really don't know enough about this to have commented, but I believe that there was an early version of the speech that was transcribed soon after Truth gave it. The later version that was published was very different, and it gave Truth's words a much stronger dialect from the more standard English that Truth apparently spoke. It's this later transcription which became the standard one that's remembered as Truth's speech. Apparently though Truth prided herself on correct English and possibly would not have said "Ain't I a woman?" at all.

poingu wrote: "Anastasia wrote: "Oh really? Is there any way to find out how she actually spoke? "

I really don't know enough about this to have commented, but I believe that there was an early version of the sp..."

Thanks for sharing this, poingu. Fascinating and a horrifying reminder of who writes the history books.

I'm all in!

Huh. Thanks for that, poingu. I'll have to look more into this.

If anyone's interested, Wikipedia has a nice overview of what poingu brought up. I found it fascinating, especially since in the timeline of history Truth is so close to us and yet someone's determination of how black people should talk is still able to muddy the waters.

If anyone's interested, Kerry Washington does a spine-chilling reading of the speech (that still seems relevant today): https://vimeo.com/1275136.

i'll be reading this as well

I'm in.

I just started reading this. the ebook is currently free on amazon. not sure how long it will be free

Since there aren't really any chapters for this I'm a little conflicted in how to divide it up. Would my fellow readers be okay with reading it until the 16th and then discussing it as a whole? Or would you be more comfortable with me trying to divide it up?

Since I just finished it here are some general thoughts:
I noticed that the emphasis on portraying her speech in the same way that poingu pointed out. It read somewhat similar to the "Ain't I A Woman" speech. Was her speech changed and, if so, do you think it was done to appeal to the masses who would buy her narrative and expect an uneducated sounding woman?

I didn't know a lot about her before reading this but she is certainly not what I expected!

I don't think you need to divide it up, unless that is what most people want. Either decision is fine by me. It is very enjoyable and easy to read so by the 16th I'm probably going to be finished with it and discussing it as a whole makes sense.

Anastasia wrote: "Since I just finished it here are some general thoughts:
I noticed that the emphasis on portraying her speech in the same way that poingu pointed out. It read somewhat similar to the "Ain't I A Wom..."

I am finished...Anastasia I think the speech was definitely changed to get others to read it. Reading the speech did not seem authentic.

The Penguin Books edition has an introductory essay by Nell Irvin Painter that I'm reading carefully now. Painter's essay mentions that Truth couldn't read or write. The temptation for Truth's transcribers to make her conform to their requirements must have been very great. Painter writes:

"The Narrative is not only heavily mediated, it is twice mediated at three different moments in time. In the first section, published in 1850, Olive Gilbert tells Truth's story in the third person and inserts her own views.Francis Titus compiled both the 1875 and 1884 editions, adding to Gilbert's narrative..."

She also writes that the people transcribing Truth's life had a very difficult time coping with the fact that she had been a slave in NEW YORK--all of their work as abolitionists was so focused on southern slave practices and these prejudices made them make errors in judgment that need to be backed out of the text with historical research.

This doesn't make it a less fascinating document but it does feel that knowing these things gives me more appreciation of how difficult it is to get to the actual facts about Truth's life and words.

That is one thing I noticed about the narrative, poingu. it was someone else relating her words. I found this extremely disappointing because Gilbert seems to insert a lot of her own commentary and I wondered how authentic and true to the narrative she was. I just wanted to know what Sojourner had to say!

I'm late getting in on this one, but I'll start tonight

I'm late getting in on this one, but I'll start tonight

I'll probably start this weekend.

I have started it, but I haven't gone very far. I think it is a short book. One thing that hits me over the head is that she is extremely articulate for one who cannot read or write.

I'm probably about 1/3 the way done. For its purpose and its time period, the book was probably perfect. It is worth reading, today, for its historical significance, but it isn't pleasure reading. At least, it isn't pleasurable to me, so far. Honestly, I'm not enjoying it at all, but it has peaked my interest in reading a well written biography about Sojouner Truth

I'll be starting it soon.

Linda wrote: "I'm probably about 1/3 the way done. For its purpose and its time period, the book was probably perfect. It is worth reading, today, for its historical significance, but it isn't pleasure reading. ..."

I was feeling the same way Linda. her story is more interesting than enjoyable

Linda wrote: "I'm probably about 1/3 the way done. For its purpose and its time period, the book was probably perfect. It is worth reading, today, for its historical significance, but it isn't pleasure reading. ..."

Here is a suggested biography:

Sojourner Truth: A Life, A Symbol by Nell Irvin Painter

Beverly wrote: "Linda wrote: "I'm probably about 1/3 the way done. For its purpose and its time period, the book was probably perfect. It is worth reading, today, for its historical significance, but it isn't plea..."

Thank you, Beverly. Can always count on you to know just the right book!

Alright, so overall what was your impression of this narrative? Was it what you expected? If not, how did it differ from what you expected going in?

Thanks for the book suggestion Beverly.

My review: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

I didn't care for this "narrative" at all. I don't know if it's because of Olive Gilbert's constant interjections or what. This read more like some type of religious propaganda. Eh..I don't really feel like I learned anything about Sojourner Truth, the person.

I'll be adding Beverly's book suggestion to my list.

Lulu wrote: "I didn't care for this "narrative" at all. I don't know if it's because of Olive Gilbert's constant interjections or what. This read more like some type of religious propaganda. Eh..I don't really ..."

Same here Lulu

Thanks Beverly for the book suggestion

Lulu wrote: "I didn't care for this "narrative" at all. I don't know if it's because of Olive Gilbert's constant interjections or what. This read more like some type of religious propaganda. Eh..I don't really ..."

Gilbert was pretty preachy. I feel bad for criticizing her because she was obviously passionate about how evil slavery was but.....idk the floweriness got to me.

"We will now turn from the outward and temporal to the inward and spiritual life of our subject." (p. 39)

This quote explains why it's taken me so long to get through a book that's less than 100 pages long. It's hard to get invested in something that is more of a vehicle for Olive Gilbert's opinions than it is a biography of an important American. I tried to keep an open mind because Gilbert was writing for a noble cause, but it's gotten to the point that her editorializing undermines the credibility of the rest of the book. As a reader, I don't trust her to place accuracy ahead of her message.

Shortly after the quote above, Gilbert lifts a passage from Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass. I wish she'd paid more attention to Douglass' writing methods. Laying the facts out for the reader is far more convincing and powerful than preaching away at them.

I tried to do the group read of this book but just couldn't finish it. It had no soul? I didn't get the feeling Sojourner spoke enough in this narrative to call it hers.

Docha, I had to restart it after almost getting halfway.

*Dosha. Sorry.

Hi Lee, that's okay. Good idea. I may have to start it over with a different mindset

I finally finished it. In the last chapter, it implies that the real reason it was written was to (view spoiler)[raise money for Sojourner Truth's retirement. (hide spoiler)] That's a noble cause, and it makes me feel more kindly towards Olive Gilbert. She wasn't a professional writer; she was just friends with Sojourner Truth and tried to do the right thing. Sometimes you have to do the job that's in front of you even if you don't have the background for it.

Once I finish with my library books, I'm going to go back and finish it too. It is a short book after all.

Phil wrote: "I finally finished it. In the last chapter, it implies that the real reason it was written was to [spoilers removed] That's a noble cause, and it makes me feel more kindly towards Olive Gilbert. Sh..."

While I'm glad it provided for her retirement I admit to still feeling disappointed that we got more of Olive's opinion than Sojourner's and that the book is filtered through Olive.